"Tire kickers"

[sofadoc]

I agree. I never give the customer too much to think about. They start scrutinizing every last little itemization.

Then they start making less expensive substitutions. And every time they make a change, they expect the price to go down a little. Pretty soon.......you're writing them a check.

We talked about this in a similar topic recently. If a customer haggles with a tradesman over price, how do they know that tradesman isn't just going to cut back on materials and labor in order to meet their price demand?

Nothing dishonest or immoral about it. If I have to reduce my price, I'm going to use less supplies, or a lower grade of supplies to offset my loss.

That's why I neither haggle, nor be haggled.

[byhammerandhand]

Price for work:   $820
Price for cut-rate job, using lesser quality materials, less craftsmanship, re-used components instead of new: $560 (no warranty on workmanship or materials)

I agree. I never give the customer too much to think about. They start scrutinizing every last little itemization.

Then they start making less expensive substitutions. And every time they make a change, they expect the price to go down a little. Pretty soon.......you're writing them a check.

We talked about this in a similar topic recently. If a customer haggles with a tradesman over price, how do they know that tradesman isn't just going to cut back on materials and labor in order to meet their price demand?

Nothing dishonest or immoral about it. If I have to reduce my price, I'm going to use less supplies, or a lower grade of supplies to offset my loss.

That's why I neither haggle, nor be haggled.

[bobbin]

"Can't you do any better on the foam? seems like a lot to me".

"I've quoted you prices for two suitable, and nice quality foams.  If you wish to supply your own foam I will be happy to use that".

"I've looked at Sunbrella upholstery fabric for under $30/yd. on line".

"Are you certain it was Glen Raven Mills Sunbrella or was it described as acrylic "sunbrella"?  If you would like to purchase it I will use it but there will be no guarantee on the relative quality/suitability of any materials you opt to provide".

This doesn't happen very often, mercifully.  And it has gotten me thinking about how to deal with people who are basically nervous about not knowing everything about the item or service they're about to purchase.  More specifically, how to inform and present my proposal after we've had an opportunity to discuss the job fully.  It really is a marketing issue, too; how do I wish to be perceived? "will do any work" or provides a full, skilled service by appointment.  Good things to ponder for future ease!

[jojo]

Wow, bobbin, I gotta say, you are way more patient than I would have been. Seems like if you ever do get past the haggling stage this job will probably come back and bite you on the ass.

[JuneC]

Jojo's correct, I'm afraid.  This same person would nit-pick the finished work to pieces and you'd end up losing money and time trying to make him happy. 

June

[Mojo]

JoJo is spot on. I had a customer like this before. He complained during the first meeting about price, bitched during the job before it was even done and then complained afterwards. Some people will bitch if you serve them cold ice cream.

I personally will not deal with people like that and have gotten very good at knowing who is going to be a PITA and who wont just by their attitude. If I suspect they are going to be a major PITA i kick them down the road by sending them to someone else. " Sorry, I am to busy at this time ".

2 years ago I had the customer from hell. He was a retired engineer and researched his project to the hilt online. He questioned everything I was going to do and the materials I use and then bitched afterwards. He even came on to this forum and snooped around at what I was posting. All of my profit was chewed up by the extra time it took to deal with him. Screw that. I will starve before I deal with another customer like him.

Shortly after that guy I made a new policy - If they appear to be a PITA give them Paul or Mikes phone number and kick them down the road........LOL......

Chris

[bobbin]

You may rest assured I'll give you the full post mortem when/if it comes to pass.  Thanks for the chuckles, you guys. 

[baileyuph]

There are shoppers and buyers, this one smells like a mere shopper for sure.  For  readers of this marketing experience, how many think this is a buyer?

I don't this one is a buyer, he politely has to be dismissed. 

Then, should he come crawling back, the answer will be "the season of this work has advanced, the only thing I can commit to is - call you if we see light".

Doyle

[sofadoc]

Remember the high school axiom "Study long.....study wrong"?

It's been my experience that when a customer anguishes too long over making their upholstery choices, they are inevitably going to regret them.

Like Chris, I've grown quite adept at spotting a PITA customer. I'll make up any BS excuse necessary to get rid of them. I don't want them to go away mad.....I just want them to go away.

I've had a couple over the years that particularly stuck in my craw. They waited until I finished the job, delivered it to their home, sat it down in  their living room, and held my hand out to get paid before they announced that they had done some research, and now want to renegotiate our previously agreed upon price.

There are mid-sized and large design firms that cater to this type of customer. They also factor all that wasted "kiss-ass" time into their estimate.   

[Mojo]

I really sympathize with Bobbin. It is tough when you hang out your own shingle and start fresh with this type of business. You have to grit your teeth, smile, be polite and kiss ass.

The day will come Bobbin when your going to busy, booked solid and when a jackwagon like this guy walks in you can afford to tell him to go pound sand.

This is why I stay out of the towables and gas coach market. They are huge time wasters for me and will try and nickle and dime you to death.I still shake my head whenever I think about my situation and customer base. I have guys with million dollar coaches call, place their order, pay their bills promptly and then piss off never to be heard from again. Then  some guy with a beat up motorhome
that is worth $ 20 K will drive you insane and make unreasonable demands.

Hang in there Bobbin. You may have to kiss a few toads now but the day will come you will be able to tell them to screw off. :)

Chris

[bobbin]

As I mentioned, I've been quite cool and refused to "step and fetch it" when he finally replied to my inquiries about my estimate.  I had suggested samples and he never got around to looking at them.  Not my problem.  No looky, no requests,  no "touchy-feely" samples.  Simple. 

My last e-mail stated emphatically that I didn't "do" last minute work.  I also said that we need to meet in my shop so he could sit on foam samples, select the sort of cushion style he wanted (after looking at my samples), look at my Sunbrella books, look at the requested samples from my supplier, and discuss their relative merit with respect to his expectations.  He replied within a day with his sample requests.  The estimate I provided is now nearly 4 mos. old and I see clearly that I'll have to check the prices... . 

I am also fully prepared for "the talk".  The talk that clearly explains my business philosophy and what his money will buy.  And how looking only at the "bottom line" can result in a 2 dimensional yacht interior. 

Stay tuned.

[bobbin]

Update!

I sold the job.  I put a good deal of thought into how to present my proposal and how to "woo" someone who was nervous about spending a lot of money for something he didn't really know how to do for himself.  Our meeting was great; lots of time for questions and lots of time for weighing the relative merit of this fabric against that fabric. I made sure I had answers for the questions I was certain would be asked and I wasn't afraid to say, "I don't know, but I will find out and let you know" to others (most of which he thought were not that important).   We went over the numbers and I told him I'd alert him if there were any major changes in price.   

It was tough sleddin' for bit, but I'm glad I stuck with it.   It was interesting to watch the change in attitude, too.  Skepticism and suspicion have been replaced with confidence and I'm looking forward to the job.   

[MinUph]

Good for you. Bobbin

[JuneC]

Woot!  Congratulations!

June

[baileyuph]

Then, there are those who fall in "love".   ;)

You had what it took to get that customer!

Congrats!

Doyle