Furniture Springs - Newer Design

[baileyuph]

Over time zig-zag or often referred to as no sag springs have changed in metal guage and scale of the springs. 

Question is; do any of you stock the newer spring Zig Zag?  If so where do you get the steel?

My stock is what was used for a long time and I have a job with a spring missing and the spring required is the newer style. 

My thinking is the newer spring supply will be hard to find because the market for item has to be small, very small.  I haven't seen one of them break. 

Any information on obtaining this supply could be beneficial. 

Then, the next question will be can my spring bender be used, there is doubt there because of the heavier guage in the newer spring?

Doyle

[sofadoc]

I notice that Rochford sell the 8 gauge in 120 ft. rolls, and 9 gauge in pre-cut 16.5" lengths.
What "newer design" are you referring to?
I've seen some with square bends, and larger bends.
The larger bends are usually on cheaper furniture. and they have very little "bow" to them.
Got a pic?

[chrisberry12]

I am unaware of a new zigger spring style. There is back spring which is lighter and the seat spring which is pretty heavy duty. Granted the market is flooded with many copies. So in this case a picture is worth a thousand words. You could try Albany Foam and Supply.

[baileyuph]

Over time zig-zag or often referred to as no sag springs have changed in metal guage and scale of the springs. 

The key word there is the guage and the scale of springs in new furniture.  By gauge, I mean thickness of spring steel. 
By scale, one refers to spring width and repeat of pattern.  In other words the distance from one common bend to the next same bend on the spring.   In a word the repeats are closer and the width is narrow on furniture made approximately 20 or more years ago.

I am well aware of guage and scale differences in seat and back springs.  BTW, a lot of the newer popular priced furniture doesn't even have back rest springs.  As someone recently pointed out, elastic type or a stretch band is replacing some metal springs in seat bottoms.

Got the picture?

Doyle

[kodydog]

Gotta admit I wasn't quite sure what you meant also. Now I know exactly what you mean.

Those springs are cheep, cheep, cheep. And start to sag after a short time. None of my suppliers carry that type spring.

Can't you use the older, stiffer style. Would replacing one spring be that noticeable. If the cushion is thick enough, like they all seem to be these days, I don't think the customer could tell.

Only other thing I can think of is if you could find one in an old discarded piece of furniture. I see plenty of cheep furniture by the roadside on a daily basis. Maybe one of the furniture stores you do business with has an old sofa laying around you could scavenge a spring from. Or One of the guys or gals here could rip one out of an old sofa and send it to you.

Good luck.

[sofadoc]

I have to say one thing for the cheapo furniture with the wide-bend no-sags. The springs stretch out of shape, but they rarely break.  I pull them "1 bend" tighter, cut off the excess bend, and re-mount.

When there is an occasional broken one, I replace with a regular no-sag spring like Kody mentioned. But one problem is that the wood is too soft to hold a stronger spring.

Fixing cheapo furniture isn't always an exact science.
You gotta do whatcha gotta do.

[baileyuph]

Amen brother!  To all that has been said, get er on!

Like I said, this new stuff, I don't recall seeing any broken but it will stretch.  Oh there might have been one or two that were broken, I am over 40 now and can forget things.

Yes, I put the work out that I needed a spring, even if it was longer it can be cut and ends reshaped like original.  Provided my benders can handle the heavier guage.

I do far less reupholstery (furniture now) but repairs, especially while the stuff is new in the game, is on the up tick.  I guess it is because the junk isn't paid for.  As far as using the smaller scale and guage spring material replacement, well it is a way out but it can come back on you.  I suppose, with patience, a like type spring will pop up, no pun intended.

I usually won't cut a stretch spring, mainly because that would only encourage more stretch and possibly breakage, wouldn't you think.  Instead I will tighten the stretched spring and add those cross braces and clips you and I have talked about.  These fatter people, the furniture users that is, add to the problem. 

Always something, that is why I want to be an upholsterer when I grow up!

But, while willing to get into the nitty gritty of anything does keep the shop busy.  That doesn't mean a long cruise is in the schedule.  Wink.

Thanks, good input.

Doyle

[byhammerandhand]

Have you trademarked this?

Fixing cheapo furniture isn't always an exact science.
You gotta do whatcha gotta do.

[chrisberry12]

Here's another suggestion that works great and beefs up the strength of the springs. You can weave 2 or 3 inch  elastic webbing across the ziggers and staple on both ends. This works awesome. It really firms up the seat.

[ahkahn]

To my knowledge zig zags have not changed.  We carry 8, 9, and 11 gauges in rolls and 17.5" precuts.  

Chris - that's a great idea!

-Andrew

[baileyuph]

To my knowledge zig zags have not changed.

That could be the problem, unless you know your springs are what is being used in new furniture, today.  Does your website give the geometry of the the spring?   This is not a rebuild situation, this is a new sofa and the spring has to be matched for a timely solution.

New furniture does not use the spring of the geometry that has been available for a very long time.

Any help is appreciated.  I have a new unit that we are trying to get springs for and dealing with manufacturers (obviously foreign) is not a timely approach.

Thanks,
Doyle

[sofadoc]

Andrew is technically right. Zig-Zag springs haven't changed. Just like No-sag springs haven't changed. But those are just brand names of sinous springs. And like DB points out, there are many different styles of sinous springs that HAVE changed over the years.
I don't know of an aftermarket supplier for the "wide-bend" style that DB is searching for. The cheapo factories hoarde all of those.
Like I said before, only rarely are they actually broken. They're usually just stretched out of shape. I've added webbing like chrisberry suggests. I've taken up a bend, and re-mounted.
"Ya gotta do watcha gotta do". It's cheap furniture anyway. However you fix it, it's probably going to outlast the rest of the frame.   

[baileyuph]

This came up last year and there were problems in replacing one spring.  Believe it or not you could tell the difference visually and by comfort.

There is little for me to retrofit, the product warranty could be an issue.  We will sweat it out and wait for the manufacturer to supply us with a replacement.  Finding one in a newer sofa that is being junked and has the same spring, the word has been put out, I guess that could come through.

Again, this being a brand new situation, the customer is going to be more sensitive.  We replaced just foam in one cushion on a couch and the customer wasn't happy, they noted the difference.  You learn that consistency is very important.

I am convinced that there isn't a strong market for springs of the type we need, otherwise  someone would have them. 

Doyle

[baileyuph]

Status update:

Decided this problem is not my problem, I did not create it and to patch around on a brand new piece is not necessary for my business, I have plenty of far better paying work in the pipe.  Therefore, the monkey was put on the backs of those who build the cheap mess because if a shop touches such they become part of the blame.  I gained more respect for this decision for the consumer and actually the vendor are seeing the merits of buying products made with pride by American crafts industries at a higher price is justified.

I am understanding that the consumer is heading in that direction.

Doyle

[baileyuph]

Update:

This issue was brought to a closure this week, I was shipped the factory springs and put the couch in back in new condition.

Glad I suggested someone contacting the factory and refusing to take no for an answer.

Doyle