This is what makes ME crazy!!

[sofadoc]

I have customers that browse my sample books for hours on end. They just can't decide. Then come the words that I've heard a jillion times before "I just can't tell by looking at a little swatch, I have to see a big piece." (they think that sets them apart from the rest of the customers). But it doesn't. They all say that.
So they go to a fabric outlet store, and buy the same stuff that was in my sample books.
OR.....(and this is the part that makes me crazy)....they go online and buy from a computer screen. They just COULDN'T tell from looking at an actual swatch in my store, but they can tell enough about a pixilated image to make a purchase.
And all too often, they're so dazzled by the ridicously low price online, they end up buying something they don't really even like!
Of course, if they still can't make up their mind, the online store will be happy to send them a..........wait for it......SWATCH!!
If I thought that I could survive refusing COM, I would in a heartbeat.
I don't mean to sound like I'm barely eking by. I actually do OK.
But if all the COM customers in the last 30 years had bought their fabric from me, I'd be retired by now.

[Saddleman]

What happens when they come back all happy with their cheap COM and you tell them it is still the same low price minus your material cost, not theirs.   ;D

Do you break out material as a seperate cost in a quote?

Loren

[sofadoc]

Do you break out material as a seperate cost in a quote?

I try to give an over-all price for the complete job. I am intentionally vague about how much of that price is material, and how much is labor. But at least half the time, the next words out of their mouth is "How much will it be if I furnish the material?"
I do charge more labor for COM jobs. But I miss the old days when wholesale was wholesale, and retail was retail.
I know that some shops will charge a "cutting charge" for COM (enough to take away any incentive for the customer to furnish their own fabric).
I'm sure this topic has been volleyed around here before, but I would be interested to here what some of your policies are toward COM.

[Mojo]

I have margins built into my materials / fabrics. In some cases I have some very hefty margins. For instance Textilene I get so cheap that my margin is x's 3.  On vinyl that I got at a great price I will double and sometimes triple the price on. I do this by looking at a customers project and color requirements and then I get online and look at Miami and Rochfords site for closeout sales. I have bought high quality marine vinyl as low as $ 3.95 a yard.

I am married to a woman who has a masters degree in Mathematics. :) She is my brain trust and has created some spread sheets for me. I have my solar screens, awnings, mirror covers, essentially everything calculated right down to the last penny. If I get a COM I instantly know know how much I am going to lose on the deal and how much I need to up-charge on labor.

My material up-charges make me money and if a customer screws with that formula then I have no choice but to make up the difference with labor charges. I make sure I stay away from mentioning or listing on the bill any " alarm " words like cutting charges. ( Must be the marketing / advertising person in me ).

It probably sounds like I am raping my customers but trust me when I tell you in the end I always end up screwing myself with labor costs by underbidding and charging to little for my time......lol.... It all works out.

I have never had a customer ........ever..........not once.......complain about my prices or try and weasel me down in prices. Now me on the other hand, I am a cheap old bastard and will hammer people on price.

LOL.................:)

Chris

[Saddleman]

But at least half the time, the next words out of their mouth is "How much will it be if I furnish the material?"

I would be inclined to respond with "It will be about the same low price." 

Most of the time I will decline to do the work with COM, because I feel regardless of any disclaimers, I own the work once it is done.  So possible cheaper material creates liability for me.  If a customer has something special they are wanting to use, well then it is the same low price as if I supplied the materials.  Call me snooty or whatever else, but it is just how I feel about it. 

How many people take their own ribeye into the local steak house and say "Here will you cook this for me?" 

In a way I think we teach people how they can treat us by what we accept from them. 

[baileyuph]

It is tough to spend a lot of time selling a job.  It is better for the shop to just get their labor rate and keep working.  Probably best to explain that the labor cost will have a supply cost added, unless the customer COM's that also.

Let them buy the materials and just keep on working. 

We keep a line of samples for the customer who doesn't want to get involved in the details of running and bringing.  No all want to get into that.

Question:  Can the shops get a good rate on materials when they aren't buying in volume from vendors?  I find that it takes an order of a roll or rolls to get a good price.  Also, if the shop doesn't stock materials, then wouldn't it be best to just consider sales time charges in the labor rate and keep that time at a minimum.   That way let the customer know that they are buying yardage at cost?  Just some ideas. 

That is cool with me if all my time is charged as labor against the item.  I point to books and do not spend time going through them, can't afford to frankly.  I can answer general questions while I work, seems the customers are most concerned about  price.

Every customer is or can be different, can't they.  Some use designers, some want to save as much as possible and don't care much about anything but price and go it alone. 

One thing for sure, you can't make it in this business selling furniture fabric at retail (whatever that is) when the customer is bent toward the chains.

COM is primarily a furniture problem, if there is a problem, normally.

Marketing sure has changed in the upholstery shop.

It isn't proper to discuss materials cost on this forum, so the discussion is limited for private reasons.

Doyle

[fragged8]

i don't know if it happens over there but if you take your own wine
to a restaurant here they will charge you 'corkage' or a fee to drink
your wine on their premises.

we should have a COMage fee, if you don't supply the material
then they get charged a fee for using supplied fabrics.

Rich

[BigJohn]

I can understand you being irate when you quote a job labor and materials only to have the itemized fabric portion lost to a local fabric store or an Internet merchant. To eliminate that problem why not sell the fabric at cost and add your profit on it into the labor, and list misc. supplies separate as well. When a customer removes the no profit fabric from the job you're out nothing, and of course you have him or her sign a waiver outlining no labor warranty resulting from fabric problems.

[scott_san_diego]

I have a question.  When you say that you give the customer one price, this includes labor, material and foam.  How do you now how much to charge for tax?

[Mojo]

I do not charge tax.

I was just wondering the other day if anyone here charges tax so thanks for asking the question.
What do you say gang ? Do you charge tax ?

Chris

[206RB]

It depends on the state you are in. Here, for the most part, we just tax the materials. But that may have changed with Governor Moonbeam.

[sofadoc]

In Texas, the labor and material are taxed at the same rate.
I don't charge tax to furniture stores, interior decorators, or any other retailer that will collect the tax from the final customer. Also Govt agencies, schools, state hospitals aren't taxable. I don't charge tax when the furniture was damaged due to "Acts of God".
I have tax exempt status with all of my suppliers, so it is up to me to collect the sales tax from the customer for fabric.
In Texas, the labor is taxed on refurbishing of tangible personal property.

[lruthb]

In order for me to purchase fabric at wholesale prices I have to have a sales tax number. Along with that we pay tax's for Polk county and WI. I need to charge a 5.5 tax. I choose for the customer to pay those dues.

[byhammerandhand]

I don't know about other states too much but, Ohio is a real mess.  

I have to collect sales tax on materials and labor, in the county where the work is performed (and reported and collected at different rates), on most services.

In their own words,
Note: This list of exemptions is merely an abbreviation of the law. The statutes and rules concerning sales tax exemptions are very long and complicated. Also there are hundreds of court decisions which affect the application of these exemptions. If you have any questions regarding a particular situation, please contact the Department of Taxation.

Just take a look:
http://tax.ohio.gov/faqs/Sales/sales_taxability.stm

And woe be unto you if you don't do it exactly right.  One of my suppliers in Cleveland said one of the office supply stores was playing fast and loose with tax exempt sales and the state went back 5 years and pay sales tax on every sale that they did tax exempt, out of their own pocket.

[JuneC]

I collect and pay tax religiously.  If my customer doesn't want to pay tax, they better come up with a resale certificate which I keep on file.  If they have one, THEY have to collect and pay tax.  Up until this year, Palm Beach and Broward counties were taxed at different rates.  I'm on the border so had to track sales by county in order to pay the correct amount.  Finally, the Palm Beach County premium (for education I think it was) ran out and it's all at 6%.  It used to be .005 more than Broward.  The tax is due on the full amount, labor and materials.  The State of Florida, I've heard, is worse than the Feds for being sticklers when auditing/collecting their dues. 

June