Help - Keder and Awning Cord

[Mojo]

I was on the phone to Miami Mike and was discussing with him about Keder and awning cord for RV slide out awnings.

The vast majority of these awnings are folded over a plastic cord and then sewn, very similar to making welting. My problem is I cannot find any of this plastic cord. I cannot think of the name of what it is called either. I have heard that some people call it beading. Myself I haven't a clue and cannot find this stuff listed anywhere on Miami or anyone else's site.

Mike sent me a couple samples to look at and neither of the products were it. One sample he sent was Keder but the diameter of the cord was too large.

Does anyone have any experience with this and know what it is called ?

BTW, I just bought 8 yards of the Recarcil from Mike ( he gave me a great deal on it ) and it looks like some awesome awning fabric. Much cheaper then sunbrella and it has the same life span. But the beauty of this stuff is that it will not shrink or stretch. I also ordered a lb of black Solarfix ( dang is that thread expensive ). I plan on using Recarcil and Solarfix for all my slide out awnings.

Now I just need to locate this cord.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Chris

[bobbin]

Chris,

We use a couple of different products for awnings that are designed to slide into a track.  We use Keder welt (expensive) and we also use a hollow PVC awning insert.  It's about 3/8" guage and it comes in "clear" and black, put ups are large spools... I'm guessing in the vicinity of 100 yds. (may be wrong on that).  I'm reasonably sure it comes from TriVantage.  It's reasonably stiff, but you can coil it.  We will typically add a 2" allowance and use a special foot to stitch it into the fold.  We then clean finish the allowance by turning it under 3/8-1/2" and topstitching it so there are no raw edges. 

The foot has two grooves, one on either side of the hole for the needle, and the insert rides down the groove and the stitching is very close to the insert giving a nice tight line of stitching.  The configuration of the foot allows you to put the insert on either the right or the left of the needle.  Typically, we put the insert in the right groove, but there are times when the option of the left side is pretty handy!  Greg will have insight into this sort of foot (I don't have one myself and don't have a picture of it, either); buy one! huge time saver and the proper tool for the job. 

Also important is to understand that the foot will tend to eat up some of the awning width as you stitch the insert in place.  Leave a "tail" on the PVC.  Pull the fabric to make sure it isn't bunched up.  Then, make sure you stitch the PVC through the fabric! one end is fine, but there is nothing worse than having the PVC shift down the fold and leave you with an unsupported part in the track.  Trust me on this (ask me how many times I've had to restitch migratory track!). 

[Mojo]

Thank you so much Bobbin.

When I bought my machine I picked up a collection of feet - welt foot, double welt foot, spring guide, etc. So I do have the double welt foot.

Could I just use solid core welt cord as used in boat and auto seats ?

The awnings that I am replacing uses a bead and then they wrap the fabric around the cord and sew it. Could I use plain old PVC welt cord for this ? I just want to make sure I have a tight fit on the bead so it wont pull out of the channel.

Chris

[bobbin]

I don't think the welt insert used for seats is going to be thick enough for your purposes, I would be afraid it will pull out of the track on the RV.  The PVC insert we use is considerably bigger in diameter than welt insert and it's a lot stiffer, too. 

Some of the awnings I've repaired over the years use a rope as the insert, but it's a pain to get started in the track because it isn't rigid enough to slide easily. 

[Mojo]

Thanks Bobbin for the input.

Do you know what the suppliers list the PVC cord that you use as ? A name of the product ?

Chris

[Miami Mike]

If you have an old piece of the original, take a picture. Keder comes in several sizes. There is one about half that size. I sent you the 8.5 mm. And thanks for the kind words.

[bobbin]

I don't do the ordering and I don't have a product name for you, Chris.  I'll ask tomorrow (if I remember), but the diameter of it is about 3/8"-1/2" and it's hollow (about + 1/8" opening, thereabouts).  If you call and describe the product and how you're planning to use it any salesman will know what you're asking about. 

[Mojo]

Bobbin:

I got on top of my coach and cut off one of the awnings. What they did is wrapped the fabric around the cord and then stitched it , similar to making a welt.

The material that they used for the beading or awning cord is a translucent solid piece of plastic. It is NOT foam cored or hollow. It is 1/4 inch in diameter.

I checked all of my catalogs and could not find it and went online and couldn't find it there either.

I am going to have to do some more investigation and give Mike a call and get him on the case as well.

Has anyone ever run across this cording ?

Chris

[Mike8560]

The material that they used for the beading or awning cord is a translucent solid piece of plastic. It is NOT foam cored or hollow. It is 1/4 inch in diameter.

Has anyone ever run across this cording ?

Chris

not any help but it soulnds liek the same stuff ive seen in patio chairs. the type that has fabric slid into a slot on each side of the chair most times one piece of fabric from the seat to the top. a translucent flexible plastic that ids untill it has sat in the sun for years and the fabric has rotted. then its  brittle and cracks into many pieces as i try to slide it out of the curvy seat rails. ive alway just had to make due with the old stuff as I cant find it either.

[Mojo]

I think I may have found what I was looking for. I ordered 4 different samples from McMaster & Carr and will see if this is it.

I will keep you all posted.

Chris

[fragged8]

hiya

I use plastic welt chord and that comes in various diameters ?

it would work for awnings.

Failing that what about an ordinary string or chord ? isn't that the old skool
way of doing it.

[CKKC]

I hope y'all tell us what it is, I have to replace 3 awnings on a class A and all I could think of
was weed trimmer line!

[PDQ]

The vast majority of these awnings are folded over a plastic cord and then sewn, very similar to making welting. My problem is I cannot find any of this plastic cord. I cannot think of the name of what it is called either. I have heard that some people call it beading. Myself I haven't a clue and cannot find this stuff listed anywhere on Miami or anyone else's site.


Does anyone have any experience with this and know what it is called ?

How about monofilament plastic line/cord, or boltrope?

[PDQ]

Just to add:

Bolttrope is sometimes referred to as 'beading' or simply 'bead'

[Mojo]

I will surely let you know if this is the stuff.

Depending on the type of Class A it may have smaller awning cord. The Class A I am doing these awnings for has a 1/4 inch channel.

I told Mike that I am going to be pretty picky on the cording. The slide out topper awnings have tension on them and they also collect a lot of rain so you have the weight as well. What I am concerned about is the liability of using cording that may heat up in the Florida sun and then deform and pull through the channel. If that happens then I am going to be stuck with an RV Tech's bill to take the awning out and give it to me to re-sew. ( RV Techs charge $ 90 - 100 per hour ). I heard of one that pulled out and it wound up and busted the spring inside the awning and then shot parts out the casing. I cannot risk these scenarios using a product I am not comfortable with.

All the cording samples that McMasters is sending me is UV resistant, chemical resistant and will handle temps of - 40 to + 212 degrees. I just need to see it and feel it to tell if it will work or not. Once I get it I will report back here on my thoughts of the material. They sell this cording in two durometer ratings so it will be interesting to see how flexible or hard they are.

I am hoping and praying that this is the stuff I need.

Chris