Presidential election year

[SteveA]

I guess no system is perfect anywhere Scott.  Since I was legal age to vote I haven't voted against my party for President.  I have supported Dem many times in other races.  For instance our Mayor ran for County Executive - a Dem, and I supported him financially and worked in his office on the phone.

I just remember the days of the Vietnam War -the Party mostly in office on uncertain footing.   I was issued a draft card - 100 numbers away from being called and the war ended -  the way those brave guys were treated when they came back was the worst. 

Gov and religion - never going to please everyone -  but big divides among voters
SA

[gene]

kodyD, your first statement:

For instance he said he would pay legal fees for a supporter who sucker-punched a protester at a recent rally. Later he said he never said that.

I know you believe that is true, but it is a lie. Every main stream article and news report I found said this. They used the words "promised", "said", "committed", etc. One CNN article even had the text of the interview and then in the very next paragraph claimed Trump said he "promised".

The next day in another interview Trump said his people were looking into it, in response to a question about this issue.

Trump said he was considering paying the legal fees. This is what he said. You can find the interview on line.

If I say I am considering coming to Florida and stopping in to say "hi", and then I say I am not going to Florida. Did I break a promise? Did I lie? Of course not.

Trump has been blasted for being a racist for what he has said about Mexico and China. You can go on line and find out that Mexico and China are countries. They are not races. Honestly! They really are countries. Don't take my word for it. Check it out on line!

I would guess that 99% of what is being reported about Trump is false, deceptive, innuendos, and out right lies. And most people would justify it by saying Trump would make a terrible president so what does it matter.

Bill Clinton solidified the fact that integrity does not matter. And the voters said "OK".

Oh, one more thing. I am not a Trump supporter. I just happen to think integrity matters. And I know that makes me old fashion and out of date.

gene

[Rich]

Actually, I never intended this thread to get into political specifics, but I guess I opened the door with a post including the words "presidential" and "election"!

But to chime in on the discussion, I never cared for Trump's bluster when I lived in NYC and he got news coverage, it was always I did this and I did that etc. Then, when he did that reality show where "You're fired" became a catchphrase, I refused to watch it thinking he'd sunk to a new low. So when he became a presidential candidate (and I had no choice but to listen to him) I found it refreshing to hear someone running for public office who was not cowed by the backlash from the PC police. The fact that he was funding himself and wouldn't be owing favors to donors was refreshing as well (although I understand that if he is voted to be the Republican candidate he has indicated that he will take donor money, so that probably trashes that argument). But I still was reserving judgement until I knew more about him. Now, quite honestly, he scares me. He does say things that I can't imagine the president of the U.S. saying. Talk about punching someone in the face and then saying they would have carried him out on a stretcher? What he said to the other candidates in the debates, calling Rubio "Little Marco"? These are things I saw, not things that were distorted by the media (though we all know that goes on every day).
He set a low, street level tone in the debates that the other candidates wouldn't have to have dealt with if not for him being there. True, he called out every one of his opponents on their claims, but the way he's done it reminds me of the street toughs I had to deal with in Brooklyn. They talk tough and loud to intimidate you (you don't want them for customers).

So, now, my wife and I feel faced with a dilemma. There's absolutely no way either of us would ever dream of voting for Hillary the career liar, but it looks more and more like either we're going to have to vote for Trump or stay home. And we wouldn't want to not vote and give Hillary any less opposition than she deserves.
Rich

[MinUph]

Rich,
  I also think Trump is a bit much in the way of political INcorrectness. But given that we are in a sad state of affairs in this country I am willing to give the guy a shot. I too heard the debates and the rhetoric being strewn all over the stage on his part and the others. But I always come back to this. He is not a career politician, he will owe no-one anything money wise, he speaks his mind. The last is a refreshing change in my opinion. All the rest are just more of the same. In all my years I can count on one hand maybe less the times I felt there was a great candidate to vote for.
  I am not a dem or rep. I vote for who I think will be best in the job. Best from the choices we are given. I dont profess to know much about running the country god knows. And maybe Trump will cause some problems maybe not. But I think he has the most chance of getting things back to the people.
  I was very hesitant in getting involved in any of this. Mainly for business purposes but I am an American and will speak my mind.
  Time will tell who wins, who looses and how much we give in to the historic politicians that don't seem to be for the people anymore.
  I, for one, am tired of the same old crap. Talk of change that never happens. I've been hearing that since I was a youngster. I can't say I remember much change in the last 20 or so years. Only change taking away from the people of our country.  Giving tons of our money to people in other countries. Not building up this country, or doing something to stop business from moving out. I could go on and on and probably should stop here. It can get pretty involved as you know.
  I must say our president now has done a couple things for my family that has helped but I don't think he has done enough with our security. But again I know that I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I my mind I would not be against a women in office but Hillary is a criminal. Too bad. We will have a woman someday I'm sure. But not now. There I started again LOL. Night to you all.

[sofadoc]

A few fun facts. Over the last 25 presidential elections, Democrats have won 13, Republicans 12.
Or during the last 100 years, Democrats lead in total years in office 52-48. Prior to Obama's re-election in 2012, it was dead even since 1916.

The longest consecutive streak was Democrats Roosevelt/Truman, 20 years.

[SteveA]

Here in NY the roads and bridges are in bad shape - Trump knows the infrastructure here is falling down - I've got to like him for that.
So much debate with limited Presidential choices.  What if Trump gets axed by the party and he isn't the nominee  - will we be regretting him never getting the chance to do what he says he wants to do.  I to think Trump can't control his mouth but agree policies need to be changed + directed in favor of the people -
And Hillary I don't trust -man what choices ?
SA

[Rich]

Well Paul, I absolutely see where you are coming from and I agree with you and Steve and others who are sick and tired of politicians promising the moon and then taking the easy (read: re-election) route once they're voted into office. We used to have statesmen in this country, now we have politicians.

But I would think long and hard about Trump before going into the voting booth in November. I think, back in 2008, he watched Obama campaign on the promises he made. His was going to be the "bi-partisan" administration. Instead, our country is more divided than ever. I said back then that many people saw Obama as the Messiah, and with stars in their eyes, supported him with a fervor not seen in too many elections. So, Trump, in my thinking, said "I can do that!" and now, he has the chance to pull the biggest power trip he's ever been on. He's a manipulator and he knows which buttons to push to get people to buy what he's selling. What will the end product look like? Nobody knows. I just hope we're not as disappointed in him in a few years as I believe so many are today with our current president. We could see a repeat performance only this time coming from the conservative side.

Sofa, yes, but today's Republican is yesterdays Democrat. JFK talked and acted more like a Republican, not like today's Democrat by anyone's yardstick. Everyone's moved to the left.
Rich

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

Here's the facts on the upcoming election.  Nothing is going to change until both parties learn to work together.  McConnell and his buddies met the night before Obama was sworn in and vowed to do everything in their power to make him a "One and Done" President.  That is why his legislation was stalled, even stuff that they had supported under Bush.  That is not why we sent those clowns to Washington.  And, NO, Democrats did not do this when Bush I, Bush II and Ronnie were in Office.  This is new behavior.  Will the Dems do that if Trump or Cruz become POTUS?  I cannot say for certain as I know there are a lot of ill feelings as a result of what has been going on in DC.

Steve, you mentioned roads and bridges in disrepair.  How do you think they get fixed?  Tax dollars.  Our biggest expenditure is all the little wars we are supporting in the Middle East.  If a Republican gets elected, I guarantee that we will start putting more $$$ into Defense which means that we either raise taxes or pull from somewhere else.  I'm sure you would say to pull from entitlements as that is a popular whipping boy these days.  Let's see, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid or Aid to Dependent Children, which one do you favor?  SSA we have paid into and Medicare the person drawing pays either out of pocket (if not eligible for SS) or SS is reduced.  Medicaid is for people who have no insurance because of illness or disability and Aid to Dependent Children, I don't really want to see starving children wearing rags in my town.  We can maybe clean those programs up to a certain degree but not enough to fix all of those roads and bridges across the US that are in a state of disrepair.  No problem, you say, just increase gas taxes enough to pay for them?  Not happening as long as the Republicans fear a gentleman by the name of Grover Nordquist (SP?) who has coerced, I believe, every Republican in the Senate and Congress into signing a "Ne New Taxes" pledge.  If they even think about raising any kind of tax, they get a call from GN who explains to them that if they vote for that tax, he will make certain they aren't reelected.  Several "R" did vote for new taxes and GN pretty much ran them out of town on a rail.  To fix infrastructure (which badly needs fixing), first thing that has to happen is that you have to run GN out of the picture permanently.  Until that happens, nothing is going to change.

As far as Trump, I really cannot see him doing anything but wanting to slash taxes for the wealthy and increase taxes for the poor and middle class.  As I said before, someone worth billions of dollars is absolutely not going to do anything for the poor and ever shrinking middle class.  I include HRC in that summation.  Her net worth and her ties to Wall Street and Big Banks will keep her from doing anything for the poor and middle class.  So in other words, we are screwed.    Plus, Trump cannot walk into DC and yell "You're Fired" to Congress, the Senate and Supreme Court.  He has to be able to work with our other branches.  I do not believe that Trump knows how to work with.  He's full of bluster and he bullies.  Not going to work in DC.

Virginia

[gene]

Do you remember when that stupid George W called those 3 countries "the axis of evil"? How stupid, cruel, mean, and politically incorrect! What an idiot!

We've had a president for the last 8 years who would not even call Muslin terrorists "Muslin terrorists". And today all 3 of those countries have nuclear weapons.

If, when, we wake up one morning and learn that a city in the USA has been destroyed by a nuclear bomb, which presidential candidate is least likely to immediately surrender?

gene

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

Do you remember when that stupid George W called those 3 countries "the axis of evil"? How stupid, cruel, mean, and politically incorrect! What an idiot!

We've had a president for the last 8 years who would not even call Muslin terrorists "Muslin terrorists". And today all 3 of those countries have nuclear weapons.

If, when, we wake up one morning and learn that a city in the USA has been destroyed by a nuclear bomb, which presidential candidate is least likely to immediately surrender?

gene

Gene,

If that happens, we all need to put our head between our knees and kiss our you know what good-bye.  If anything in the US ever gets nuked, we will nuke back, get nuked again (probably) and those not immediately annihilated, will live a painful death dying of cancer caused by the nukes or starving because our whole infrastructure has been disrupted.

Since most every Country has nuclear capabilities, we need to learn to diffuse those that we can (Iran, Iraq) and make enforceable treaties with those we can trust.  I understand why Truman used the first and second nukes against Japan in WWII because they saved countless lives on both sides.  However, I wish that the equation had been destroyed and burned from all who were involved's memory.  We can now wage war (drones, smart misels (why can't I spell that word correctly?), etc.) without putting troops on the ground and into harms way.  Nukes are now more of a danger because you get one trigger happy fool (on either side of the war) and they basically will destroy the planet.  We can wage and win wars without nuke capability and actually proved that in Desert Storm.  Yes, we had troops on the ground but it was more to clean up afterwards.  There were amazingly few US casualties, though do NOT say that to their families.  I worked at Ft Leavenworth during Desert Storm at Command and General Staff College.  Our boss at the time was a full Colonel, waiting for his promotion ceremony to Brig. General.  His name was Creighton Abrams and, yes, the Abrams M-1 tank was named after either his father or grandfather, forget which.  At any rate, he was temporarily stationed in DC during the Conflict and after he returned to Ft Leavenworth before he cleaned out his desk and headed to his first assignment as a General; he briefed us on the whys and wherefores of what made Desert Storm, the first so-called "tactical" war such a success.  I'm kind of a peacenik but it was fascinating to me to hear the rationale of the various bombing campaigns, etc.  I also remember though literally watching Desert Storm in live-time after getting home from work.  We moved the TV where we could see it from the Dining Room.  Kind of a life changing experience in some ways.

Virginia 

[SteveA]

Infrastructure dollars lost to defense spending - I didn't say that.  Aid to Children lost - I didn't say that .  I'd like to see the money we pay for taxes used without waste. There would be something left to fix America.   Everything we gained and built in the middle east is now lost + abandon - When experienced generals advise what to do and we don't listen we are hurting ourselves.  You can't contest experienced eyes on the round with a life time of knowledge.  It's uncomfortable but it's necessary.  Trade center down, Boston, Paris, Belgium - we can't wait for more attacks - we need to be pro active and whatever the military advises is fine with me.
Virginia  - I won't judge a man's character because he was born wealthy - he doesn't need this job but he seems committed. I say if he's the last rep  standing and the nominee - I'd vote for him over Hillary or Bernie -

SA

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

Infrastructure dollars lost to defense spending - I didn't say that.  Aid to Children lost - I didn't say that .  I'd like to see the money we pay for taxes used without waste. There would be something left to fix America.   Everything we gained and built in the middle east is now lost + abandon - When experienced generals advise what to do and we don't listen we are hurting ourselves.  You can't contest experienced eyes on the round with a life time of knowledge.  It's uncomfortable but it's necessary.  Trade center down, Boston, Paris, Belgium - we can't wait for more attacks - we need to be pro active and whatever the military advises is fine with me.
Virginia  - I won't judge a man's character because he was born wealthy - he doesn't need this job but he seems committed. I say if he's the last rep  standing and the nominee - I'd vote for him over Hillary or Bernie -

SA

Steve, just trying to list options as to where the money is going to come from.  Honestly, defense spending has tons of waste in it.  We purchase equipment not because we need it but because there is a plant in a rep's district so it is rammed through.  Prices that are over inflated, remember the $500 hammers.  Trust me, that still is happening.  I'm sure it goes on in other areas of the budget as well but just easier to ram through because it is for defense.

Trump may be the man.  I just have a hard time seeing him giving a hairy rat's behind about we the little people.  Same reason as Hillary, stands to make money from "big deals with Wall Street, et al" .... time will tell.

Bernie has character and does not change his opinion with the polls.  He's been fighting the same fight his entire adult life.  I respect him for that.  May not agree with him 100% but I respect him for not flip-flopping.

Virginia

[SteveA]

I don't think you're unreasonable and I understand options.  Won't you agree we need to have folks follow our laws and if they don't we need to defend ourselves.  If the cost of defending ourselves is exploited by wasteful spending - so be it.  We need a military at whatever cost it is.  There is price gouging and they hold the power - they spend and do what they want.  The alternative is to abort defending ourselves because it's too expensive ? - not reasonable to be un-defensible.  V - may I ask  - Did you vote for O'bama ? 

Kindly,
SA

[sofadoc]

Nothing is going to change until both parties learn to work together.

The most over-used, under-meant phrase in all of politics. What's the point of a politician saying "We need to all work together" when they aren't willing to give even one inch?

The 2-party system isn't even designed with the notion of working together.  You're either a Hatfield or a McCoy. Riding the fence is not permitted. If a member of one party were to show a willingness to work with the other, it would be perceived as weakness. The goal is to break the other party, not work with them.

This upcoming election features the 2 most unqualified candidates in our nation's history IMO. Normally, I'm content to just pick the lesser of 2 evils. But this goes way beyond that.

I'm hoping to see the poorest voter turnout of all time. Then, maybe both parties will get back to some sense of sanity. Otherwise if this trend continues, we may someday be swearing in a Kardashian as President.

Anybody see the movie "Idiocracy"?

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

Sadly Steve, I voted for Obama.  Biggest disappointment ever but honestly it was the lesser of two evils in my opinion, both elections.  As far as bloated "D" funding being the price we pay.  No, that's what got our deficit jacked up.  We can purchase what we truly need at a fair price.  We don't need to pay for equipment we don't need because xyz plant is in abc's district.  Absolute horse hockey.  Hubby and I saw first hand the waste and abuse of taxpayer's dollars DOD wide due to our jobs.  Just absolutely crazy.  We could be perfectly safe, quit buying equipment that even top Generals have said we don't need and get rid of the rest of the pork barrel spending.  When you make a blanket statement like that, Steve, you just give the powers that be free license to screw the tax payers and take money from other programs that are more deserving because they don't have the luxury of all that pork barrel spending.

Virginia