Having been in business for many election cycles, I've come to find that election campaign years are usually bad for business because of people's uncertainty of the future. This one has been unaffected in my experience though and I think it may be because most people feel that no matter who our next president is, it has got to be better than it's been.
Any personal insights on this?
Rich
I've seen my business affected by various economic downturns over the years.
The only one that I could directly associate with an election year, was when H.G. Bush lost to Clinton.
The Gulf War had ended much quicker than anyone expected, and now all the war bills were coming due. All this happened during the summer leading up to the November election. The country went into a deep recession, which probably cost Bush the election.
It was the only time in my career that I completely ran out of work. Things were very slow for 2 or 3 months. I came very close to going out and getting a non-upholstery job.
I don't recall any other election years affecting my business.
Our yearly cycle generally runs like this. April through December we are swamped. We usually have enough overflow to get us through January and February. March is usually dead. And even though this happens every year it still kind of freaks me out.
The only time we completely ran out of work was right after the great recession of 2007-09. Things were slow for a few years. We both had to find jobs working for someone else. Rose still works for the Fl dept of revenue. Even though we're busier than before we still haven't fully recovered.
I don't ever remember being slow during election years but it could be I just wasn't paying attention.
I don't know that election years in particular have affected my business, other than taxes keep going up.
I do feel a bigger sense of negativity than ever before about the future of our economy no matter who gets elected. I think this might be a function of me just getting older.
gene
Yes Gene, Getting old does make a change on the outlook of things and the perception of the world. For me each election year I see less and less positiveness in candidates. Less being done to make things better. I hate being negative. I am so sick of politicians saying the same things over and over.
As for a slowdown in business I have never put the two things together. Maybe it is a fact but I never thought about the two in the same sentence.
This is my first presidential election as a small business owner so have no idea. Right now, it's a little quiet but I need it to be. I've turned away 4 or 5 jobs of different sorts. Do have one coming in tomorrow. By the time I get fabric ordered, tear out done, etc I'll be out of my brace and hopefully good as new.
I do think that there is a candidate who could make a positive difference.
Virginia
I do too Virginia
Most of my business life has been spent only an hour from Washington DC, so that may be why I'm more susceptible to this. It may be that in an election year, many are wondering if they'll have a job when the new president comes in.
Rich
me ive only ran out of work once in this biz. I think it was fall 2012. this year has been busier then ever, but the boat dealer were my shop is has said thve been slow sales this season possibly dou to the election
QuoteYes Gene, Getting old does make a change on the outlook of things and the perception of the world. For me each election year I see less and less positiveness in candidates. Less being done to make things better. I hate being negative. I am so sick of politicians saying the same things over and over.
I recently listened to two books on tape by George Carlin. He certainly got negative about most everything in the later years of his life. He was still very funny, though.
I read an article that said the reason politicians all say the same thing is because as soon as they say something specific the news media is showing people who disagree with them, no matter what they say.
Change. We need change. We need to work for a better future. It is all sloganeering. Symbolism over substance.
gene
Quote from: gene on March 17, 2016, 05:16:23 am
It is all sloganeering. Symbolism over substance.
When politicians say "We need to all work together!", they usually get a huge round of applause, high-fives, and fist-pumps.
Wow! they've just made a profound statement that nobody ever thought of before. Working together.......what a concept! But none of them ever have any insight on how to go about doing that.
Any time someone says "Can't we all work together?", what they really
mean is "Can't we all do it
my way?"
Quote from: MinUph on March 13, 2016, 10:32:11 am
For me each election year I see less and less positiveness in candidates. Less being done to make things better. I hate being negative.
I don't recall ever voting in any election when I didn't feel like I was just choosing the "lesser of two evils". This November will be no exception.
Do we get cynical and pessimistic as we get older or do the years of experience allow us to just see things more clearly?
Quotechoosing the "lesser of two evils"
These folks did not have to choose the lesser of two evils.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cat-mayor-alaska-town-15-years-article-1.1116263
gene
Probably the latter is the case, we have been down the road a few times by now.
How a candidate sounds when running isn't always what you get. Thinking back on a couple elections....I guess.
My time is too important to get overly absorbed in the stuff. I do take time to read along the course of evens and vote.
Doyle
A strong case for Trump is that folks are tired of typical candidates - is it time to vote for someone other than a politician ?
Doyle if you were the guy who lost a factory job and in debt you might be overly absorbed.
What drives me crazy is the inability of the elected party to work with the other side.
SA
One of the MANY negatives for Trump is that 3 or 4 (early and forget which -- going out this morning so don't have time to surf the web looking for the correct number) of his corporations have gone bankrupt. Doesn't seem like Trump is the right businessperson to "lead us into the light" as the saying goes.
Virginia
Doyle if you were the guy who lost a factory job and in debt you might be overly absorbed.
Steve with my luck, I would be better off to get absorbed in job hunting. These candidates are in for what is good for them also.
Doyle
I'm not impressed with any candidate but for Trump I'd say a couple of things. Yes a few of his companies went under but he says he used bankruptcy laws to recover losses. Many business' do that. Also when you have so many companies there is no way every one of them work out.
Is Trump in it for personal gain ? I don't think so. Can he make a difference for the American People - that's another topic.
SA
The way our elected officials continue to spend money we may need someone who has bankruptcy experience. 8)
gene
The few reasons I like Trump.
1. He speaks his mind without the old political correctness getting in the way.
2. He seems to have no hidden agenda like other candidates now and in the past.
3. I think he can get things done if he is "allowed" to.
4. I don't think he needs to be "allowed"
5. All this talk about stopping him is mostly from his own party and they are scared shitless of loosing their power and control.
6. I would love to see #5 come true.
There are more reasons and I was not going to put this out there but I think it is time to.
So if you agree say so, and if you don't say so too. This is still America and we can say what we feel.
Paul
I think # 1 is going to be his downfall. He is an alternate to the same old same old but wouldn't you expect a guy being considered for a position so important could get his message across without alienating so many people. I will vote for the red team - always have -
# 3 if parties could only work together - you can't make your candle brighter by blowing out another's
SA
All valid points guys, you know (I am going to say this), my business is run with much of the same type of energy seen in a couple of the candidates. Getting things done - if something needs changed, do it (whatever way is required)!
Expectations in politics are changing - seemingly every day.
The national debt, it is seriously large, why? Things will change regardless of attitudes toward this parameter. Do you even try to run your business by running up debt the next or next generations will have trouble satisfying?
Doyle
When Trump makes his outrageous comments, we all just grin and say "Oh well......that's just Donald being Donald".
But I'm afraid other countries aren't going to take it that way.
Every politician that our country has ever known has had a flair for talking out of both sides of their mouth. Trump is a refreshing change in that regard. Even when he has to backtrack and change his stance on an issue, he does it so matter-of-factly.
Not that I want to see candidates give those generic non-committal answers, but I wish Trump would try to be more tactful when discussing world affairs.
QuoteWhen Trump makes his outrageous comments
OK. I'll take the bait.
Give me an outrageous comment, sOfaD. One outrageous comment only, please.
QuoteGive me a ping, Vasily. One ping only, please.
gene
I never said that. Trump constantly uses the phrase even though he is caught on tape saying it. For instance he said he would pay legal fees for a supporter who sucker-punched a protester at a recent rally. Later he said he never said that.
Donald Trump told TODAY that he hadn't seen a new ad scrutinizing statements he's made about women only moments after he told another morning show that he had viewed the ad.
Trump on Megyn Kelly: "You have done a great job, by the way, and I mean it" and "I have zero respect for Megyn Kelly, I don't think she's very good at what she does."
Trump on opponent Ted Cruz: "I don't think Ted Cruz has a great chance ... he's a nasty guy, nobody likes him" and "I really do, I like Ted Cruz a lot."
Trump on democratic candidate Hillary Clinton: "Hillary Clinton was the worst secretary of state in the history of the United States" and "Hillary Clinton is a terrific woman. I'm a little biased because I've known her for years, but I think she really works hard and she does a good job. I like her."
There is more but you get the point. And yes if he gets the nomination I'll vote for him. Just can't imagine the alternative.
This is why I cannot vote for Clinton or a third party vote.
During Bill Clinton's terms in office, IRS audits were conducted against individuals and groups who caused problems for the administration.
Hillary was instrumental in covering Bill's 20 years of alleged and admitted extra-marital relationships. Including claims of sexual impropriety or assault.
Filegate, illegally obtained FBI files on GOP enemies.
Huma Abedin, who served as Hillary's longtime deputy chief of staff and has worked with her for nearly 20 years, has known ties to the Muslim Brotherhood
Vince Fosters 1993 death
Emailgate: She should be in prison for this.
Chinagate: Sale of high-tech secrets. She should be in prison for this.
The Travelgate scandal, the staff of the White House travel office was fired to make way for Clinton cronies.
Whitewater: Jail for friends, but not Clintons.
"I remember landing under sniper fire," An outright lie.
Hillary's missing law firm billing records
Pardongate: Bills pardons contributors of Hillary's Senate run.
Unheard of profits form cattle futures to the tune of 9987% while her husband was Gov of Arkansas.
Clinton Body Count: People associated with the Clinton administration scandals who have died mysterious and often violent deaths.
Shady deals in the Clinton Foundation. Clintons have siphoned off tens of millions of dollars annually from funds the Bill, Hillary, and Chelsea Clinton Foundation has received from a United Nations-sponsored program.
Benghazi: 4 American lives lost.
Watergate: Fired for being a liar.
The list goes on.
Quote from: SteveA on March 19, 2016, 03:13:01 am
Paul
I think # 1 is going to be his downfall. He is an alternate to the same old same old but wouldn't you expect a guy being considered for a position so important could get his message across without alienating so many people. I will vote for the red team - always have -
# 3 if parties could only work together - you can't make your candle brighter by blowing out another's
SA
I think some people need to be alienated, so they are seen for what they are.
I will vote for the best person for the job in my opinion. I have no red, white team affiliation, never saw the reason for having a party perse (sp).
QuoteI will vote for the best person for the job in my opinion.
So I guess you haven't voted since Reagan? :D LOL
Sometimes I crack myself up!!!
gene
Always interested to hear the views of you guys on what is happening in America as your mostly working class and educated with a good perspective on things.
From an outsiders view looking in, this Trump bloke is a bit scary for all the reasons mentioned in this thread, sounds like he could easily start a war :(he is being touted over here as the Hiltler of our time. Granted all we see is daily news clips of someone getting harassed at his rallies. Watched a show last night of a Muslim bloke that was interviewed and seemed quite reasonable and attended a Trump rally to see what the hooha was about and he was one of the ones beaten up.
I feel for you guys, your choices of decent politicians rising to the top are few, I don't understand your electoral system, it's more like a TV reality show. Probably why Trump is doing well ;D, it must be tedious putting up with more than a year of %#*!
Why is it that only people outside of the US have a firm grasp of the dangerous game Trump is playing? The footage of Trump people doing their best Heil Hitler salute felt like being sucker punched.
Why on earth should someone whose net worth is over $300 billion give a hoot about common working people? If you ain't the 1%, you don't count and frankly I don't think that the bottom tier 1% counts in Trump's book.
Virginia
Quote from: scottymc on March 20, 2016, 03:43:27 pm
I don't understand your electoral system, it's more like a TV reality show.
The electoral system was originally designed so that people living in sparsely populated rural states would have a bit more of a say. Otherwise, if it was strictly a popular vote, a few major cities would control the outcome of every election.
I don't really care for the "winner take all" aspect of the electoral system. One candidate can theoretically carry just the top 11 states by a single vote and win the election, even if the other guy carries the remaining 39 states in an absolute landslide.
What I really hate, is that local elected officials are tied to party lines. People vote straight ticket. Just because you're voting for a Republican president is no reason to vote against a Democratic judge or sheriff. I think that voting straight ticket can be just as irresponsible as not voting at all.
Quote from: sofadoc on March 20, 2016, 04:52:13 pm
What I really hate, is that local elected officials are tied to party lines. People vote straight ticket. Just because you're voting for a Republican president is no reason to vote against a Democratic judge or sheriff. I think that voting straight ticket can be just as irresponsible as not voting at all.
This is a couple of things that I find a bit scary in your system is voting for a judge or sherriff, over here there is no local police it is all state police and the boss is head hunted to get the best person for the job. I'm of the understanding that it is the president actually hires the guy that is going to be in charge of defence, is that right?
By the way I'm not saying the political system in my country is any better than Americas, it has a lot of holes in it(it's the same as Britains) as well, at least Australia has so very little power in the world it can only damage itself.
I guess no system is perfect anywhere Scott. Since I was legal age to vote I haven't voted against my party for President. I have supported Dem many times in other races. For instance our Mayor ran for County Executive - a Dem, and I supported him financially and worked in his office on the phone.
I just remember the days of the Vietnam War -the Party mostly in office on uncertain footing. I was issued a draft card - 100 numbers away from being called and the war ended - the way those brave guys were treated when they came back was the worst.
Gov and religion - never going to please everyone - but big divides among voters
SA
kodyD, your first statement:
QuoteFor instance he said he would pay legal fees for a supporter who sucker-punched a protester at a recent rally. Later he said he never said that.
I know you believe that is true, but it is a lie. Every main stream article and news report I found said this. They used the words "promised", "said", "committed", etc. One CNN article even had the text of the interview and then in the very next paragraph claimed Trump said he "promised".
The next day in another interview Trump said his people were looking into it, in response to a question about this issue.
Trump said he was considering paying the legal fees. This is what he said. You can find the interview on line.
If I say I am considering coming to Florida and stopping in to say "hi", and then I say I am not going to Florida. Did I break a promise? Did I lie? Of course not.
Trump has been blasted for being a racist for what he has said about Mexico and China. You can go on line and find out that Mexico and China are countries. They are not races. Honestly! They really are countries. Don't take my word for it. Check it out on line!
I would guess that 99% of what is being reported about Trump is false, deceptive, innuendos, and out right lies. And most people would justify it by saying Trump would make a terrible president so what does it matter.
Bill Clinton solidified the fact that integrity does not matter. And the voters said "OK".
Oh, one more thing. I am not a Trump supporter. I just happen to think integrity matters. And I know that makes me old fashion and out of date.
gene
Actually, I never intended this thread to get into political specifics, but I guess I opened the door with a post including the words "presidential" and "election"!
But to chime in on the discussion, I never cared for Trump's bluster when I lived in NYC and he got news coverage, it was always I did this and I did that etc. Then, when he did that reality show where "You're fired" became a catchphrase, I refused to watch it thinking he'd sunk to a new low. So when he became a presidential candidate (and I had no choice but to listen to him) I found it refreshing to hear someone running for public office who was not cowed by the backlash from the PC police. The fact that he was funding himself and wouldn't be owing favors to donors was refreshing as well (although I understand that if he is voted to be the Republican candidate he has indicated that he will take donor money, so that probably trashes that argument). But I still was reserving judgement until I knew more about him. Now, quite honestly, he scares me. He does say things that I can't imagine the president of the U.S. saying. Talk about punching someone in the face and then saying they would have carried him out on a stretcher? What he said to the other candidates in the debates, calling Rubio "Little Marco"? These are things I saw, not things that were distorted by the media (though we all know that goes on every day).
He set a low, street level tone in the debates that the other candidates wouldn't have to have dealt with if not for him being there. True, he called out every one of his opponents on their claims, but the way he's done it reminds me of the street toughs I had to deal with in Brooklyn. They talk tough and loud to intimidate you (you don't want them for customers).
So, now, my wife and I feel faced with a dilemma. There's absolutely no way either of us would ever dream of voting for Hillary the career liar, but it looks more and more like either we're going to have to vote for Trump or stay home. And we wouldn't want to not vote and give Hillary any less opposition than she deserves.
Rich
Rich,
I also think Trump is a bit much in the way of political INcorrectness. But given that we are in a sad state of affairs in this country I am willing to give the guy a shot. I too heard the debates and the rhetoric being strewn all over the stage on his part and the others. But I always come back to this. He is not a career politician, he will owe no-one anything money wise, he speaks his mind. The last is a refreshing change in my opinion. All the rest are just more of the same. In all my years I can count on one hand maybe less the times I felt there was a great candidate to vote for.
I am not a dem or rep. I vote for who I think will be best in the job. Best from the choices we are given. I dont profess to know much about running the country god knows. And maybe Trump will cause some problems maybe not. But I think he has the most chance of getting things back to the people.
I was very hesitant in getting involved in any of this. Mainly for business purposes but I am an American and will speak my mind.
Time will tell who wins, who looses and how much we give in to the historic politicians that don't seem to be for the people anymore.
I, for one, am tired of the same old crap. Talk of change that never happens. I've been hearing that since I was a youngster. I can't say I remember much change in the last 20 or so years. Only change taking away from the people of our country. Giving tons of our money to people in other countries. Not building up this country, or doing something to stop business from moving out. I could go on and on and probably should stop here. It can get pretty involved as you know.
I must say our president now has done a couple things for my family that has helped but I don't think he has done enough with our security. But again I know that I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I my mind I would not be against a women in office but Hillary is a criminal. Too bad. We will have a woman someday I'm sure. But not now. There I started again LOL. Night to you all.
A few fun facts. Over the last 25 presidential elections, Democrats have won 13, Republicans 12.
Or during the last 100 years, Democrats lead in total years in office 52-48. Prior to Obama's re-election in 2012, it was dead even since 1916.
The longest consecutive streak was Democrats Roosevelt/Truman, 20 years.
Here in NY the roads and bridges are in bad shape - Trump knows the infrastructure here is falling down - I've got to like him for that.
So much debate with limited Presidential choices. What if Trump gets axed by the party and he isn't the nominee - will we be regretting him never getting the chance to do what he says he wants to do. I to think Trump can't control his mouth but agree policies need to be changed + directed in favor of the people -
And Hillary I don't trust -man what choices ?
SA
Well Paul, I absolutely see where you are coming from and I agree with you and Steve and others who are sick and tired of politicians promising the moon and then taking the easy (read: re-election) route once they're voted into office. We used to have statesmen in this country, now we have politicians.
But I would think long and hard about Trump before going into the voting booth in November. I think, back in 2008, he watched Obama campaign on the promises he made. His was going to be the "bi-partisan" administration. Instead, our country is more divided than ever. I said back then that many people saw Obama as the Messiah, and with stars in their eyes, supported him with a fervor not seen in too many elections. So, Trump, in my thinking, said "I can do that!" and now, he has the chance to pull the biggest power trip he's ever been on. He's a manipulator and he knows which buttons to push to get people to buy what he's selling. What will the end product look like? Nobody knows. I just hope we're not as disappointed in him in a few years as I believe so many are today with our current president. We could see a repeat performance only this time coming from the conservative side.
Sofa, yes, but today's Republican is yesterdays Democrat. JFK talked and acted more like a Republican, not like today's Democrat by anyone's yardstick. Everyone's moved to the left.
Rich
Here's the facts on the upcoming election. Nothing is going to change until both parties learn to work together. McConnell and his buddies met the night before Obama was sworn in and vowed to do everything in their power to make him a "One and Done" President. That is why his legislation was stalled, even stuff that they had supported under Bush. That is not why we sent those clowns to Washington. And, NO, Democrats did not do this when Bush I, Bush II and Ronnie were in Office. This is new behavior. Will the Dems do that if Trump or Cruz become POTUS? I cannot say for certain as I know there are a lot of ill feelings as a result of what has been going on in DC.
Steve, you mentioned roads and bridges in disrepair. How do you think they get fixed? Tax dollars. Our biggest expenditure is all the little wars we are supporting in the Middle East. If a Republican gets elected, I guarantee that we will start putting more $$$ into Defense which means that we either raise taxes or pull from somewhere else. I'm sure you would say to pull from entitlements as that is a popular whipping boy these days. Let's see, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid or Aid to Dependent Children, which one do you favor? SSA we have paid into and Medicare the person drawing pays either out of pocket (if not eligible for SS) or SS is reduced. Medicaid is for people who have no insurance because of illness or disability and Aid to Dependent Children, I don't really want to see starving children wearing rags in my town. We can maybe clean those programs up to a certain degree but not enough to fix all of those roads and bridges across the US that are in a state of disrepair. No problem, you say, just increase gas taxes enough to pay for them? Not happening as long as the Republicans fear a gentleman by the name of Grover Nordquist (SP?) who has coerced, I believe, every Republican in the Senate and Congress into signing a "Ne New Taxes" pledge. If they even think about raising any kind of tax, they get a call from GN who explains to them that if they vote for that tax, he will make certain they aren't reelected. Several "R" did vote for new taxes and GN pretty much ran them out of town on a rail. To fix infrastructure (which badly needs fixing), first thing that has to happen is that you have to run GN out of the picture permanently. Until that happens, nothing is going to change.
As far as Trump, I really cannot see him doing anything but wanting to slash taxes for the wealthy and increase taxes for the poor and middle class. As I said before, someone worth billions of dollars is absolutely not going to do anything for the poor and ever shrinking middle class. I include HRC in that summation. Her net worth and her ties to Wall Street and Big Banks will keep her from doing anything for the poor and middle class. So in other words, we are screwed. Plus, Trump cannot walk into DC and yell "You're Fired" to Congress, the Senate and Supreme Court. He has to be able to work with our other branches. I do not believe that Trump knows how to work with. He's full of bluster and he bullies. Not going to work in DC.
Virginia
Do you remember when that stupid George W called those 3 countries "the axis of evil"? How stupid, cruel, mean, and politically incorrect! What an idiot!
We've had a president for the last 8 years who would not even call Muslin terrorists "Muslin terrorists". And today all 3 of those countries have nuclear weapons.
If, when, we wake up one morning and learn that a city in the USA has been destroyed by a nuclear bomb, which presidential candidate is least likely to immediately surrender?
gene
Quote from: gene on March 22, 2016, 06:27:31 am
Do you remember when that stupid George W called those 3 countries "the axis of evil"? How stupid, cruel, mean, and politically incorrect! What an idiot!
We've had a president for the last 8 years who would not even call Muslin terrorists "Muslin terrorists". And today all 3 of those countries have nuclear weapons.
If, when, we wake up one morning and learn that a city in the USA has been destroyed by a nuclear bomb, which presidential candidate is least likely to immediately surrender?
gene
Gene,
If that happens, we all need to put our head between our knees and kiss our you know what good-bye. If anything in the US ever gets nuked, we will nuke back, get nuked again (probably) and those not immediately annihilated, will live a painful death dying of cancer caused by the nukes or starving because our whole infrastructure has been disrupted.
Since most every Country has nuclear capabilities, we need to learn to diffuse those that we can (Iran, Iraq) and make enforceable treaties with those we can trust. I understand why Truman used the first and second nukes against Japan in WWII because they saved countless lives on both sides. However, I wish that the equation had been destroyed and burned from all who were involved's memory. We can now wage war (drones, smart misels (why can't I spell that word correctly?), etc.) without putting troops on the ground and into harms way. Nukes are now more of a danger because you get one trigger happy fool (on either side of the war) and they basically will destroy the planet. We can wage and win wars without nuke capability and actually proved that in Desert Storm. Yes, we had troops on the ground but it was more to clean up afterwards. There were amazingly few US casualties, though do NOT say that to their families. I worked at Ft Leavenworth during Desert Storm at Command and General Staff College. Our boss at the time was a full Colonel, waiting for his promotion ceremony to Brig. General. His name was Creighton Abrams and, yes, the Abrams M-1 tank was named after either his father or grandfather, forget which. At any rate, he was temporarily stationed in DC during the Conflict and after he returned to Ft Leavenworth before he cleaned out his desk and headed to his first assignment as a General; he briefed us on the whys and wherefores of what made Desert Storm, the first so-called "tactical" war such a success. I'm kind of a peacenik but it was fascinating to me to hear the rationale of the various bombing campaigns, etc. I also remember though literally watching Desert Storm in live-time after getting home from work. We moved the TV where we could see it from the Dining Room. Kind of a life changing experience in some ways.
Virginia
Infrastructure dollars lost to defense spending - I didn't say that. Aid to Children lost - I didn't say that . I'd like to see the money we pay for taxes used without waste. There would be something left to fix America. Everything we gained and built in the middle east is now lost + abandon - When experienced generals advise what to do and we don't listen we are hurting ourselves. You can't contest experienced eyes on the round with a life time of knowledge. It's uncomfortable but it's necessary. Trade center down, Boston, Paris, Belgium - we can't wait for more attacks - we need to be pro active and whatever the military advises is fine with me.
Virginia - I won't judge a man's character because he was born wealthy - he doesn't need this job but he seems committed. I say if he's the last rep standing and the nominee - I'd vote for him over Hillary or Bernie -
SA
Quote from: SteveA on March 22, 2016, 09:56:15 am
Infrastructure dollars lost to defense spending - I didn't say that. Aid to Children lost - I didn't say that . I'd like to see the money we pay for taxes used without waste. There would be something left to fix America. Everything we gained and built in the middle east is now lost + abandon - When experienced generals advise what to do and we don't listen we are hurting ourselves. You can't contest experienced eyes on the round with a life time of knowledge. It's uncomfortable but it's necessary. Trade center down, Boston, Paris, Belgium - we can't wait for more attacks - we need to be pro active and whatever the military advises is fine with me.
Virginia - I won't judge a man's character because he was born wealthy - he doesn't need this job but he seems committed. I say if he's the last rep standing and the nominee - I'd vote for him over Hillary or Bernie -
SA
Steve, just trying to list options as to where the money is going to come from. Honestly, defense spending has tons of waste in it. We purchase equipment not because we need it but because there is a plant in a rep's district so it is rammed through. Prices that are over inflated, remember the $500 hammers. Trust me, that still is happening. I'm sure it goes on in other areas of the budget as well but just easier to ram through because it is for defense.
Trump may be the man. I just have a hard time seeing him giving a hairy rat's behind about we the little people. Same reason as Hillary, stands to make money from "big deals with Wall Street, et al" .... time will tell.
Bernie has character and does not change his opinion with the polls. He's been fighting the same fight his entire adult life. I respect him for that. May not agree with him 100% but I respect him for not flip-flopping.
Virginia
I don't think you're unreasonable and I understand options. Won't you agree we need to have folks follow our laws and if they don't we need to defend ourselves. If the cost of defending ourselves is exploited by wasteful spending - so be it. We need a military at whatever cost it is. There is price gouging and they hold the power - they spend and do what they want. The alternative is to abort defending ourselves because it's too expensive ? - not reasonable to be un-defensible. V - may I ask - Did you vote for O'bama ?
Kindly,
SA
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on March 22, 2016, 05:13:12 am
Nothing is going to change until both parties learn to work together.
The most over-used, under-meant phrase in all of politics. What's the point of a politician saying "We need to all work together" when they aren't willing to give even one inch?
The 2-party system isn't even designed with the notion of working together. You're either a Hatfield or a McCoy. Riding the fence is not permitted. If a member of one party were to show a willingness to work with the other, it would be perceived as weakness. The goal is to break the other party, not work with them.
This upcoming election features the 2 most unqualified candidates in our nation's history IMO. Normally, I'm content to just pick the lesser of 2 evils. But this goes way beyond that.
I'm hoping to see the poorest voter turnout of all time. Then, maybe both parties will get back to some sense of sanity. Otherwise if this trend continues, we may someday be swearing in a Kardashian as President.
Anybody see the movie "Idiocracy"?
Sadly Steve, I voted for Obama. Biggest disappointment ever but honestly it was the lesser of two evils in my opinion, both elections. As far as bloated "D" funding being the price we pay. No, that's what got our deficit jacked up. We can purchase what we truly need at a fair price. We don't need to pay for equipment we don't need because xyz plant is in abc's district. Absolute horse hockey. Hubby and I saw first hand the waste and abuse of taxpayer's dollars DOD wide due to our jobs. Just absolutely crazy. We could be perfectly safe, quit buying equipment that even top Generals have said we don't need and get rid of the rest of the pork barrel spending. When you make a blanket statement like that, Steve, you just give the powers that be free license to screw the tax payers and take money from other programs that are more deserving because they don't have the luxury of all that pork barrel spending.
Virginia
Quote from: sofadoc on March 22, 2016, 11:25:04 am
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on March 22, 2016, 05:13:12 am
Nothing is going to change until both parties learn to work together.
The most over-used, under-meant phrase in all of politics. What's the point of a politician saying "We need to all work together" when they aren't willing to give even one inch?
The 2-party system isn't even designed with the notion of working together. You're either a Hatfield or a McCoy. Riding the fence is not permitted. If a member of one party were to show a willingness to work with the other, it would be perceived as weakness. The goal is to break the other party, not work with
You hit the nail on the head. Nebraska has a Unicameral so party affiliations pretty much don't enter into it. Our unicameral has vetoed some bills that I never thought possible. I think it is because we don't have a "Dem" versus "R" mentality. Maybe DC should try it?
Virginia
Work together - I guess I never paid attention to how galvanized a Presidency could be until Mr. O'Bama's. President Clinton moved center -
President O'Bama will not bend. Take for instance health care - passed without one rep vote. How do you make a legislation that affects every American without the other sides participation. O'Bama's stubbornness cost him a chance at being one of the greatest presidents we ever had.
SA
QuoteYou're either a Hatfield or a McCoy. Riding the fence is not permitted.
That is what I dislike about "party politics". We have three major parties and a couple of other registered ones. This sometimes leads to minority governments where the government is forced to work with the two opposition parties to move forward , and they need to work together to satisfy their agenda vs. the governing party. In the case of a majority government all beats are off. Sounds great in theory---but if my representative is order to vote on party lines drawn up in Ontario, how is (s)he really representing us in SW Manitoba?
I get the whole party concept. Without some structure, those 35? clowns we have would never even be able to decide what colour of socks to wear if they decided to re-convene. But without someone being able to say "hey wait a minute" young True-dope can go out and spend as much money as he wants to turn some tree his father liked to hug into a
national shrin, ????, and I get to pay the taxes to finance it essentially without representation.
Hey Darren, is it compulsory voting in Canada? My wife and I just got a $76 fine each cause we were busy working and forgot to vote, we'll doing a postal vote next time. Speaking of which they just call an election here so they are going into elction mode, at least it only lasts 100 days, it seems to go for over a year in the USA.
Hi Scotty. No it is voluntary. I wish it were mandatory like down your way. If we get >40% turn out for an election it makes the news. In our recent federal election the polls had the Liberals and the Progressive Conservatives pretty much neck and neck. In the eleventh hour,Trudeau and the Liberals started offering all this money for "special interest groups" like our indigenous people and they all ran out and voted; probably for the first time in their lives LOL. Lo and behold he won a majority government. Obviously all those people polled who did feel they deserved free money didn't bother to vote.
Gene:
I've only seen headlines on the web. What did or did not The Donald say about Cruz's wife. I was shocked that a PAC went after Melania in that fashion. So much for the unwritten rule about leaving families out of the campaign. After that, Bob did some reading about her and is pretty impressed with her since she started her own company and has made a tidy sum. You can't be an airhead and do all that. So, you know you would be getting a First Lady who has a brain sitting on her shoulders.
Anyway, just wondered what The Donald did or did not say about Heidi Cruz.
Virginia
I find no justification for terrorism.
gene
Ye Gods Gene!
Two days ago, you were up in arms about how the press is mis quoting The Donald. So, I thought that you might have the scoop on what he did or didn't say.
Where do you come up with your statistics on immigration and welfare.
As far as separation of Church and State, I think that many, who claim to be Christian, do not believe in separation of Church and State.
Other than 9/11, our worst terrorism was by our own home grown Timothy McVeigh and the OKC Federal Building. Immigrants do not have a lock on terrorism. If our forefathers echoed the sentiments you wrote, most of us would probably not be here. Germans were maligned, Japanese were held in "camps", Irish ditto, Catholics ... and on and on we go.
Grand Island has had a large influx of Muslims because of the JBS Swift plant outside of town. As with any race or religion, there are good as well as bad. We had 2 families on our block about a year ago. One lived next door and I have to admit that I was more than happy when they moved. Why -- because they were different from how we are -- their food gave off a horrible smell when cooked (made me nausious seriously), I have a hard time accepting women walking 5 paces behind a man, dressing in their Native garb while hubby dresses in "Western" clothing; and worst was they were incapable of carrying on a conversation in normal tones. They would often get out of their car at 1 AM or later. Driveway is right under our bedroom window so I would wake up every time as they yelled in tones louder than Bob & I use when we are having "words" -- I post this as a way of understanding some of your comments but I question whether that is grounds for denying them entry into the USA. Not every Muslim wants to kill those of us born here. I would wager a guess that most of them have no interest in that at all.
Again, may I ask, is the media headlines/accounts of the latest feud between The Donald and Calgary Ted accurate? My take on it is that a Cruz Super PAC published a very hot picture of Melania Trump sizzling au natural (if I had ever had a bod like that, I would have posed in the nude as well). Trump made some heated comments about letting the cat out of the bag (or words to that effect) about Heidi Cruz. A Trump supporter, I think, twitted a side-by-side of Mrs. Trump, again looking hot, and Mrs. Cruz, looking about as po'd as a body can look. Trump re-twitted it with a capture something like "A picture is worth a million words." Cruz has his "dukes up" ready to defend his missus.
Yes, we have way more important issues at stake. And yes, more junior high antics. Again, they might as well lay them out and measure them (maybe we could get on to more serious issues if they did). My curiosity was if the media got it correct this time or not. I would love to see the Republican candidates drop all the jr. high crap and talk about serious issues, you know the environment, climate change, unemployment, the TPP and how it will destroy the soveirnty (can't spell -- too late) of the USA, etc. but until they do, I can only focus on what they choose to expose.
Virginia
Wait a minute, Virg, it sounds to me like you minimized the threat we face from Islamic terrorists and elevated the threat from climate change.
Islamic terrorists hate America for who we are. Are all Muslims to be considered part of this group? Of course not, the majority are decent, law abiding people like any other group of people. But, nothing about who we are and what we do is about to change and consequently, nothing about how this minority wants to kill us will either. That is a given and when our "leader" tries to dialogue with them or minimize their actions and not even want to name them, he is doing absolutely nothing about what is one of our biggest problems today
Climate change, sure, it's been changing since God created it and it will go on changing for as long as He allows it to. Are WE causing it to change? That is the big question that many are trying to use as leverage to institute the regulations that will do more to empower them than actually having any effect on the "problem". It will cause economic hardship to many, but that doesn't seem to concern them.
I don't worry about climate change one bit, but our daughter has a trip to Germany coming up very soon and that concerns me because there is an evil element, with mental issues hell-bent on destroying anything American. That's real and although I don't plan on voting for Trump, (I hope I don't have to) I am heartened to see there are candidates running for the highest office in the land who are willing to recognize this and are willing to take action. Our inaction over the past 7 years has emboldened our enemies as they recognize their good fortune in this window of opportunity. It's about time it came to a close and American leadership began acting like America again.
Rich
Other than 9/11, our worst terrorism was by our own home grown Timothy McVeigh and the OKC Federal Building.
Virginia
[/quote]
True but the Terrorists acts in total are the issue not a lone wolf with mental issues. The terrorists acts are planned to target us by groups of killers that's growing larger every day - time to do something
SA
Here is where the rubber meets the road as the old saying toes. More than one Middle East expert has said that GWB has done more for ISIS recruiting that any one else. Whether that be true or not, I do not have the knowledge to say. I had no problem with Desert Storm because we were invited, Sadam had invaded another country, lots of attrocities (still cannot spell -- no excuse now) being committed by SH and his henchmen. But than GWB took office and we invaded again, on the pretense of WMD that it is now agreed upon did not exist. That is when things start to get real dicey between us and Middle Eastern countries. My opinion is that we would not have dispatched troops were we not so d*mn dependent upon foreign oil, yet another good reason to start spending more on R&D for reliable electric vehicles. Better for the environment, lots of jobs developing and producing and we don't need your stinkin' oil. Win/Win/Win.
Should we keep an eye on ISIS? You betcha! Should we round up every person from the Middle East and/or of Muslim Faith? Not at all. Close the borders? Impossible and a huge waste of tax payer dollars. Should we vet people entering the Country better? Absolutely but brown skin, from xyz country and worship Allah is not an adequate reason to deny entry into the USA.
I will also say that we are 7 years + into Obama's Presidency terror acts have been minimal. Boston Marathon was a biggie but the perpetrators were allowed in, I think, while Bush was in Office. And, no, I am not blaming GWB for that one. They came with their parents, one or both did go back to their home country. Should we have prevented from reentry to the USA? I haven't read enough to provide a knowledgeable answer to that one.
Myself, I don't want to live in a Country where we are so paralized by fear that we ramp up security to such a level that we no longer have basic freedoms. Might want to go read what Thomas Jefferson said about fear all those years ago. I submit that he is 1000% correct.
Gene, sorry that I didn't quote you as you make my above post look pretty stupid and not real lucid but it was at the time I posted it. What bug got under your britches last night?
Virginia
You left out that husband + wife pair that shot up the place during a Christmas party. Were there WMD - who knows - opinions vary - could they have been moved ? Not impossible ! I think the GWB could not take a chance - Monday morning quarterback is another view but make life or death decisions for a Country requires a backbone. He had backbone ! I agree we're a melting pot but lets just find out who is here - get them documented - pay taxes etc. Paralyzed by fear - I don't see that in peoples faces. I do see a resentment to the leadership in that leadership shows little concern for American's way of life SA
I agree that most Muslims living in the USA are non-violent law abiding citizens, not terrorists.
But if they became aware of terrorist plot by a fellow Muslim, would they report it to the police? Or just keep their head down and say nothing? When they suspect that a relative has joined an anti-American group, do they turn him/her in? Do they offer food, shelter, and even financial assistance to those who may not have our nation's best interest at heart?
If you were living in Russia right now, would you report any suspicions of illegal activities by other Americans?
Getting another culture to obey the laws of the land is one thing. But getting them to change their hearts and minds is quite another.
Quote from: sofadoc on March 25, 2016, 10:55:42 am
I agree that most Muslims living in the USA are non-violent law abiding citizens, not terrorists.
But if they became aware of terrorist plot by a fellow Muslim, would they report it to the police? Or just keep their head down and say nothing? When they suspect that a relative has joined an anti-American group, do they turn him/her in? Do they offer food, shelter, and even financial assistance to those who may not have our nation's best interest at heart?
If you were living in Russia right now, would you report any suspicions of illegal activities by other Americans?
Getting another culture to obey the laws of the land is one thing. But getting them to change their hearts and minds is quite another.
I agree with your intent. Don't know what they would do. Depends on the illegal activities. Statement #4 is why we have wasted so much time and money in the middle east. We are trying to change thousands of years of culture in a few decades. Doesn't happen that way.
Problem is that we have thousands (hundreds of thousands?) already melted into the USA. We certainly cannot round them up and remove them anymore than we can do that to the Hispanic culture already here. We tried that with the Japanese during WWII and we ended up paying out boukou bucks in repatriation fees after the war was over. Everything that is being suggested by the Rep. candidates is blaming all Muslims and Middle Eastern people. So what is the correct answer, I don't know. Just know that Trump and Cruz solutions are not the America that I want to live in. One candidate (maybe no longer in the race, not sure) wanted to give a number to -- can you say Nazi Germany? Good vetting will prevent any future episodes, don't know what to do about those that may be in country already. Open to reasonable suggestions.
Virginia
Quote from: SteveA on March 25, 2016, 09:31:10 am
You left out that husband + wife pair that shot up the place during a Christmas party. Were there WMD - who knows - opinions vary - could they have been moved ? Not impossible ! I think the GWB could not take a chance - Monday morning quarterback is another view but make life or death decisions for a Country requires a backbone. He had backbone ! I agree we're a melting pot but lets just find out who is here - get them documented - pay taxes etc. Paralyzed by fear - I don't see that in peoples faces. I do see a resentment to the leadership in that leadership shows little concern for American's way of life SA
Steve, we will be paralyzed by fear if we give up too many freedoms in order to "be safe".
Yes, left them out on purpose. Kinda just wanted to use Boston Marathon and OKC Federal Building as they were the closest I could get. 9/11 encompassed too much property and way too many human lives (both US and our allies who had loved ones die). Ca. incident was not on a scale to try and compare with OKC. Boston Marathon is still much smaller but thankfully there aren't too many to draw from.
As far as WMD go, Colin Powell has stated on multiple occasions that we were given bad information I think that in a few years they probably would have had WMD but not at that time.
I agree with need to know who is here and document and pay taxes if they are employed. I just don't want to see them in a separate database, strictly because of their skin color and/or faith. If they have immigrated her, ICE should already have their information and we should already know their whereabouts. IF there is sufficient grounds to track them further, again ICE should already be doing that. I think that is part of ICE's responsibility.
Virginia
I don't profess to have the answers here. I do see we are facing an unpresidented issue both here and all over the world. This is not like anything we have seen before and steps do need to be taken that most don't like. What will it take to understand this? These people do things that are just horrible inhumane and there will be no easy defense against them. They are from basically one group or religion if you want to call it that. Untill we know how to deal with them we have to be unwilling to allow more to come unveted. One of my good friends came fro the area andarticulated into an american citizen. Ifeel bad for him now as im sure he sees all this differently than we might. People that come to the USA and wish to live like we do are fine. Its the people that come and expect this country to change to their ways are the problem. So the people that feel like if this happens then i will move to some other country i say see ya. We need to stand up for what we are and stop bowing down to all this crap.
"I will also say that we are 7 years + into Obama's Presidency terror acts have been minimal."
You could say the same thing about the homeowner who saw no reason to have the termites in his house dealt with since everything looked fine to him from where he sat.
They are here now. Some have come through our borders, others are American sympathizers, all are dangerous to our way of life and liberty and they thrive on our reluctance to limit our freedoms and to encroach on others' rights. Republican candidates have not said they'd want to "round up every person from the Middle East and/or of Muslim Faith", they have said that we need to be much more vigilant about dealing with those who may be playing into anti-American sentiment by advocating actions against America. That, I believe goes on all too often in certain circles right here in America.
The ironic thing is that those who are so vocal about the rights of others and tolerance etc, would be the ones most likely to be executed or imprisoned under this radical ideology. At some point, we need to re-think how we are addressing this threat and the weak approach our leadership has employed in recent years is digging us deeper into future difficulties that we might otherwise imagine.
Rich
Paul, I have posted several times that future immigrants must be vetted. BTW, that goes for all immigrants, not just Middle Eastern or Muslim immigrants. Terrorism knows no religion or skin color. I am reading more and more about ISIS recruits that are white, American born in the lap of luxury as the saying goes. We are just as likely now to have an issue with an ISIS recruit who is born and bred Brit, France, Italian, etc. as being from the Middle East. In fact, that is one of their recruiting mantras, recruiting from native soil, as it is easier to get onto the soil they want to terrorize. I would hope that a flag would be placed on passports of returning Americans who have spent months in the known ISIS hotbeds. If you are first time and have been for several days, I wouldn't think that the same level of scrutiny would be required but I'm not an expert.
So, that should take care of new immigrants entering the USA and hopefully the "home-grown" ISIS terrorists. How we deal with those that have been in the US for years, children born here, etc., I must say I'm not sure what to do. I just know that rounding everyone up and putting them in internment camps is not the answer. We learned that after WWII with Japanese-American citizens and it is not a bright spot on our Country's history. If you ever have a chance, listen to the dude from the original Star Trek Series. His family was ripped out of their house and put in internment camps for no other reason than being Japanese American living in the US during WWII. Very sad.
There must be reasonable precautions that can be taken. I hesitate to say that feedback from US citizens can be used because I know, from living in Grand Island, that there are way too many who are willing to say just round them up and send them back. Plus, now you have generations married to white Americans and they have had children, in some cases children have had children. It is the same thing I say to those in Grand Island who still espouse that we should send all the Hispanics and Af-Americans back to "where they came from" ... how do you do that when you are talking generations that have now melted and married into "our culture" I don't think that is a reasonable option. I don't believe that most Muslim-Americans cheer when these terrorist acts occur and treating all of them as if they are cut from the same cloth is wrong on many levels. Just my opinion.
Virginia
V.... I always admire your knowledge in these areas. Where I disagree is the faith you place in Colin Powell. I liked him to have been a Presidential candidate but was disappointed in him when he endorsed a rookie senator with no experience. Powell states Bush was given bad information ? Powell wouldn't know if his neighbor three doors away had a new car. How could anyone sitting in an office in the Pentagon really know what's happening on the ground thousands of miles away. It took them 10 years to find Bin Laden - it seems surrounding countries close their eyes to terrorist activities -
The administration did what it had to do. I'm one who believed / believes in the Bush Presidency
SA
So when do you know who is actually running for president?
Do the political parties have a leader? Over here the leader of the party in government is Prime Minister and if the party does not think he is doing a good job they can vote him out, which is happening a bit to often lately.
Hi Darren, I honestly don't know which is better, compulsory or not. One thing the guy making the doco on Trump said at the end was that for him to be elected it could come down to the weather as most of the people at the rallies were low income or unemployed and did not have transport, so if the weather was bad they'd just stay home.
So I suppose it would make a huge difference if you had to vote by law as politicians have to target everyone to win votes, not just the ones that can be bothered to get off there bum.
Sorry , I have another question, I was listening to the news the other day and they said over 40,000 people signed a petition to be allowed to take a handgun into republican rallies. Is this a right to bear arms thing or a right to have a shot a Trump? :-))
The gentleman who started the petition did it as a kind of humor/dig at Republicans for the very liberal interpretation of the second amendment. Like schools, sporting events, churches and more according to the NRA should have open carry. I've been to Nebraska Football games and I have no desire to sit beside some drunk fan who's carrying a semi-automatic and gets po'd because the Huskers got creamed by some cup cake team. Anyway, the dude decided that if the NRA and some other Republicans want all this open carry, then you should be able to open carry at the convention.
Last I checked, the petition was just shy of 50K signers. Saw on the yahoo news feed this morning that the Sec. Service said that open carry would not be permitted at the convention.
Virginia
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on March 29, 2016, 06:37:10 pm
The gentleman who started the petition did it as a kind of humor/dig at Republicans for the very liberal interpretation of the second amendment. Like schools, sporting events, churches and more according to the NRA should have open carry. I've been to Nebraska Football games and I have no desire to sit beside some drunk fan who's carrying a semi-automatic and gets po'd because the Huskers got creamed by some cup cake team. Anyway, the dude decided that if the NRA and some other Republicans want all this open carry, then you should be able to open carry at the convention.
Last I checked, the petition was just shy of 50K signers. Saw on the yahoo news feed this morning that the Sec. Service said that open carry would not be permitted at the convention.
Virginia
Has that (the drunken fan shooting up the arena) actually happened?
One thing I think is probably true, even the mentally ill would prefer not to open fire at an open carry venue. Why take the chance of getting shot back?
Rich
No, weapons are not allowed at our football games. Is it Texas that just changed their legislation regarding that? Some state did and I think it is just a question of when. Alcohol loosens inhibitions and makes some people think that they are invincible.
Perhaps it is just people talking chit but especially after the theater shooting in Colorado, I read way too many comments from "John Wayne" types who were convinced that if only they had been in that dark theater, they would have shot that dirty rotten SOB before he had taken any lives at all. I wondered how their accuracy was going to be that great when he waited to start firing until the movie got to a scene with a tremendous amount of noise (if I'm remembering correctly). Regardless of that, it was dimly lit and you are sure you are hitting the gunman and not another Good Samaritan. Much more confidence than I would have in my skill and when I weapon qualified with the M-16, I hit 78 out of 80.
Virginia
Quote from: scottymc on March 27, 2016, 12:03:37 pm
So when do you know who is actually running for president?
Do the political parties have a leader?
Both parties hold their conventions this July, at which time they will officially nominate their candidates to run for President. This is normally when bitter rivals suddenly become BFF's, and join forces as running mates for Pres/vice-pres. Although I don't know if that will happen this time.
Each party has a national chairman. Usually elected by vote of the individual state chairmen during winter meetings.