How long should restaurant booths last?

[sofadoc]

I have a customer that owns a local restaurant. For over 25 years, he brought me booth seats every month or two to recover. Up until 4 years ago, when he did a complete remodel, and bought all new booths.

Now 4 years later, all the vinyl seats are cracking. They are covered in Spirit Millennium Naugahyde, which is rated for restaurant applications. The owner feels that the vinyl should have lasted longer.

I think part of the problem is the harsh detergents they use to clean the booths. The owner SWEARS that they only use a mild soap and water. But I suspect that the employees throw whatever is handy into the soap bucket (bleach, degreaser, etc.).

But mild detergents or not, I'm not prepared to make him any promises. There are just too many unknown variables.

What kind of longevity are you guys seeing? And out of what vinyl brands?

[scott_san_diego]

If the restaurant is busy and the seats get a lot of use, then  four years is pretty good.
I feel it also depends upon the type of foam they use in the seats.  If they use a cheep foam that breaks down, then the material is going to stretch out quicker and crack sooner.  As apposed to using a good quality foam that will last longer and support the vinyl.

[MinUph]

Sofa,
Spirit Millennium should have lasted longer than 4 years indoors. Even if it was on plain wood. As you think something was used that deteriorated it or it was a bad batch to begin with. Or it was substituted with some other vinyl at the factory. Not an impossibility. Have they contacted the manufacturer to see if there is a warranty that is in force?
 

[sofadoc]

Or it was substituted with some other vinyl at the factory. Not an impossibility.

Highly plausible. I've seen remodel jobs before where the contractor put a name brand (such as Spirit Millennium) on the paperwork, but substituted with a less expensive knockoff. But this stuff sure looks like Spirit Naugahyde.

I seldom get to actually see just how long some vinyls last. Usually, the booth seat has a puncture, or the restaurant goes "belly-up" long before the vinyl fails.

[kodydog]

We do work for a few restaurants in town. The seats are lucky to last more than 4 or 5 years not from wear but from slices or holes from god knows where. One manager swears customers slash the seats with pocket knives on purpose. Mischievous vandalism.

[gene]

Restaurants seem to use the same rag to wipe off the top of the table that they use to wipe off the seats. Yuk!

I never thought there was any detergent on those rags?!?

From a dental upholstery site: We have noticed that the life expectancy in heavy traffic is about 12-15 years.

From another upholstery web site:

When subjected to rigorous abrasion exposure using the industry accepted Wyzenbeek test standard, Naugahyde with Advanced BeautyGard exceeds:
Over 500,000 cycles (one million rubs) on 1.21 cotton/polyester sateen
(standard clothing material).
Over 50,000 cycles on #8 cotton duck
(canvas/tent material).
Over 15,000 cycles on #10 cotton duck
(heavy canvas/tent material).

If everything is cracking after 4 years I would think it is either the material or something in the environment, such as an alcohol cleaning product.

gene

[scott_san_diego]

Naugahyde also makes a Pattern called All-American.  It is the same pattern and colors as Spirit II, just a cheaper version.  Thinner top coat.  If you recover these seats, when you take the cover off you can see if the logo is on the underside of the material.

[sofadoc]

I used All American on a local Red Lobster restaurant for nearly 20 years. They cracked every couple of years. They recently remodeled and got all new booths covered in Carrara. Some of them are already getting brittle after less than a year. But they frankly admit that they use harsh chemicals to clean with. If they aren't worried about longevity, neither am I.

[scott_san_diego]

That's called job security.  That is a good thing.  Easy money...

[west coast]

I have used Spirit on lots of jobs and I have used real crap vinyl(supplied by owner) and there is a max length of time for the good stuff at around 4-5 years. Some seats wear faster being the more popular ones as you know and some are wrecked by staff. I dont care what they say they use the cleaners dry out the plasticizers in the vinyl and it just dries out and gets brittle. If the seat is more popular than the next one it dries out faster because it gets cleaned more. I just started repairs on a restaurant last week that I did new 4 1/2 years ago and the manager was very happy she got 4 years out of them and this is a very hi end eatery so they are very .... Fussy is not the correct word but high end customer for sure. I am also doing a pub down the road and I do a walk through every six weeks or so looking for trouble and fix when I find a problem , I date the bottom of the seat every time so I can track the length of time between repairs, they average around 3 years but lots of the damage is punctures by high heals .. Ya I don't ask I don' t need to know. I don't think 4 years is to soon at all for a seat in a restaurant for even the best vinyl.

[gene]

lots of the damage is punctures by high heals

Being on the west coast this would be both men and women, right?

Actually, the first wicker chair seat I did was for a friend. She had a bunch of people over to her house for a grill out. One lady sat on the wicker chair and tucked her foot up under her butt, with her shoe on. She was literally sitting on her shoe/foot.

This poked a hole right threw the wicker. And just like in restaurants, this lady did not bother to tell the owner. Someone else saw it and told my friend how it happened at the end of the evening after realizing that the lady said nothing.

gene

[sofadoc]

So in summation after reading these replies. 4 years for a busy restaurant is about average.

Mitigating factors, such as harsh cleaners and a poor foundation (foam) can reduce that life expectancy.

I don't factor punctures and cuts into the equation, since they can happen at any time.

I did 6 booths at a local BBQ joint over 20 years ago. I used a cheap off-brand vinyl. They still look like new. This place is only open for lunch everyday, so the booths don't get heavy usage. And I seriously doubt they EVER get wiped off with any kind of detergent.

One lady sat on the wicker chair and tucked her foot up under her butt, with her shoe on. She was literally sitting on her shoe/foot.

I've had customers come into my shop, sit down in furniture that I've just completed, and proceed to totally abuse it. Sitting on their foot, scooting around as if they're having a seizure, pounding the back cushions with their fist, letting their kids climb all over it, etc. One lady even squeezed the snot out of her kid's nostrils, and wiped it off on a sofa.

[Lo]

Recently I was asked the same question by an owner who claimed the current vinyl was not lasting as long as the original. Did a college level research of cause and effect and learned that anything but warm water will and can reduce the life of the vinyl. Soaps having a drying agent, chemicals have a drying agent and compounds not compatible, grease is one of the factors that can impact longevity.

However, when taking into account the chair seats were done in the same vinyl and NOT showing the same signs of degradation I came up with a different conclusion for the bench seats. First off, the base is not the same chair to bench . . . the chairs are foam to board whereas the benches are open framing with foam over stretch fabric. Secondly, while visiting the restaurant it was observed the cleaning people had to kneel on the benches in order to clean . . . the tables are wall mounted and unmovable so this is the only way to reach the pictures, window ledges, etc. Taking into account the difference in weight distribution of kneeling versus sitting it was obvious to me that the vinyl was being stretched in these areas and the failure rate was increasing. Thirdly, the repairs that were being done were 'covers only' . . . with the above information and after a discussion the owners could see the benefit in replacing the foam and adding more support to the stretch webbing that has lost resiliency over time. We also discussed at length that any compound other than clear, warm water will cause shorter life expectancy and unless they could guarantee that nothing but water would be used I could not warranty the cover.

We have been repairing these benches as they fail and just recently were told they are pleased with the results (probably because 6 months have come and gone and the first bench seat is still pristine). This amplifies for me the importance of taking the time to educate the client.

[Mojo]

I teach vinyl and leather care in my seminars. MiamiMike helped bring me up to speed on vinyls, how they are made, how to care for them, etc. Some of the info also came directly from the manufacturers.

The one big no-no with vinyl is PD's and silicone's. Believe it or not Armor All is a horrible product for preserving vinyl. I believe that Aerospace 303 is the only cleaner protectant that has none of these and will actually help preserve the vinyl and prevent cracking and separation.

If these people are using harsh cleaners then they should not expect them to last very long. I think 4 years is actually pretty good for a busy restaurant. Think of how many ass'es slide in and out of these booths every day and also consider how many of those ass'es have a wallet, cell phone or something else tucked into a pocket that will grind away on the vinyl.

Chris

[Upholstery Clinic]

Another thing to consider.  Do the booths have springs in them?  I have found that if the ties break and the springs start to spread apart, this will allow more stretch in the material and cause premature cracking.  Especially when the servers kneel on them to clean the tables. 

Finally, I have three restaurants that have someone come in to clean the windows, and they stand on the booths to get to the windows.