New guy, binding question

[islandsewing]

Hi everyone, first post here. Glad I found it to help with my new adventure. I've been reading alot trying to learn as much as I can.
I live in the Bahamas, always wanted to try marine upholstery and finally decided to go for it. I've been doing as much research as I can online for a few months. Since I don't have sewing experience, I chose to go with a Sailrite Ultrafeed. I know they might be overpriced but I decided their support was worth the extra cost to get started. (If I bought a cheap machine on ebay, who would I go to for help?) I will upgrade to a better machine later.
Sunbrella, while very popular and has brand recognition, doesn't seem to be the first choice for most of the posters here. Based on what I've read, I'm going to try out Weathermax 80, Sattler and Recacril along with Sunbrella to see what I like. For those of you who don't use Sunbrella, what do you use for binding? Do you use the Sunbrella binding with other brands or not use it at all, or make your own?
My first order, which I'm waiting for delivery on now is several yards of Weathermax. I'm going to make some covers for a tools that I have and a t-top for my boat to get some practice.

[bobbin]

Acrylics (Sunbrella, Dickson, Sattler, Recacril) are all made of the same fibre, acrylic, which is solution dyed for color fastness.  I personally don't find much difference between them, all are good quality with similar color offerings and warrantees.  I made a lot of awnings and thought Sattler and Dickson had the nicest selection of stripes.  Sattler had a much nicer selection of basic solid colors, too.  Much more varied which matters when you're working with interior designers!

That said, I'll use any acrylic binding.  My folder takes 3/4" single fold binding and that's what I use (although I like 1" for applications when driving over a lot of layers is required).  Every brand makes their own binding, too, though usually only available in solid colors, so pay attention to color matching, esp. with blues.  In marine and awning work the standard is to use the pre-folded binding (single fold) so the folder on your machine only has to fold the binding in half to render a finished application.  In clothing work it's customary to feed raw edge bias through a double fold folder, which turns the raw edges under as it folds the bias in half. 

[Mike]

Sunbrella always been the. Ustomer call although outdura and recacril and coastguard.  And im sure a cew more all seem m lose to the same.   For a good lasting product in. The tropical sun a ptfe thre like solarfix or tenara.  Where can you get supplies. Im gueesing  not on the islands.  Try miami corp. in florida   Keyston  is also a local choise in fl.

[MinUph]

Welcome aboard island,
  Your on the right track trying out a few products to get a feel for what you like. As stated by bobbin these are all acrylic products and basicly the same. Some uses call for less stretch like awnings. But the main stay is Sunbrella and Outdura for cushion work. Always use an acrylic binding as the vinyl stuff just doesn't hold up long. Keep us posted and never be afraid to ask ???

[islandsewing]

Acrylics (Sunbrella, Dickson, Sattler, Recacril) are all made of the same fibre, acrylic, which is solution dyed for color fastness.  I personally don't find much difference between them, all are good quality with similar color offerings and warrantees.  I made a lot of awnings and thought Sattler and Dickson had the nicest selection of stripes.  Sattler had a much nicer selection of basic solid colors, too.  Much more varied which matters when you're working with interior designers!

That said, I'll use any acrylic binding.  My folder takes 3/4" single fold binding and that's what I use (although I like 1" for applications when driving over a lot of layers is required).  Every brand makes their own binding, too, though usually only available in solid colors, so pay attention to color matching, esp. with blues.  In marine and awning work the standard is to use the pre-folded binding (single fold) so the folder on your machine only has to fold the binding in half to render a finished application.  In clothing work it's customary to feed raw edge bias through a double fold folder, which turns the raw edges under as it folds the bias in half. 

I have to say that one of the main factors in choosing Weathermax 80 to start is price :) No need to use the best just starting out. I've looked at some of the 2nds at Rochford supply that's really cheap. I'll probably get some of that too and offer to make little covers or whatever for family to get more practice patterning and sewing. Does anyone else sell 2nds?

As far as the different brand bindings, I'm talking about the prefolded bindings that just fold once. In looking around, I haven't seen any companies offering these for anything other than Sunbrella. (maybe I just haven't looked in the right places) I wouldn't mind mixing brands, just worried about colour match.

[islandsewing]

Sunbrella always been the. Ustomer call although outdura and recacril and coastguard.  And im sure a cew more all seem m lose to the same.   For a good lasting product in. The tropical sun a ptfe thre like solarfix or tenara.  Where can you get supplies. Im gueesing  not on the islands.  Try miami corp. in florida   Keyston  is also a local choise in fl.

I plan to use ptfe thread when I starting doing jobs for paying customers. I see way too much canvas around with rotting thread. Yes, it costs more, but it's not like you're using a full spool of thread for a bimini or dodger. I think the overall cost will be very low compared to the benefits.

For supplies, obviously nothing locallly. I will have to order and have shipped to a freight forwarder in Florida. I've ordered some stuff from Sailrite, and Outdoor Textiles in Florida so far. I've talked to someone at Miami Corp about purchasing from them as well.

[islandsewing]

Welcome aboard island,
  Your on the right track trying out a few products to get a feel for what you like. As stated by bobbin these are all acrylic products and basicly the same. Some uses call for less stretch like awnings. But the main stay is Sunbrella and Outdura for cushion work. Always use an acrylic binding as the vinyl stuff just doesn't hold up long. Keep us posted and never be afraid to ask ???

Ideally, I would like to stick with one brand unless a customer asks for something specifically. Having to order and wait about a week for supplies, I will over time try to have a good inventory for basic things. Do most of you guys/gals doing marine stuff still use alot of Sunbrella? I know there will be some customers that ask for it because that's the only brand they've heard of.

I plan to keep reading, asking question and posting picture of my work so you guys can have a good laugh every now and then ;D

[Mike]

yes ive used a lot of sunbrella yes also a lot of outdura the two on your table you couldn't tell the difference for sure   many people thart have shrunken sunbrella covers Ill sell on recacril that claims no streach ot shrink  well see on that but I have seen it streach,  also ive used a lot of seamark replacing searay oem canvas as is .   where your a week to get supplies that got to suk as  its a day away  for many. contact Miami mike member here hes a Miami corp rep
 visit when you up and running  :)  rite mike ?  :)  company trip

oh ya sunbrella has binding you want and outdura has there from Miami recacrill does also  from Miami  for sunbrella keyston bros in Miami florida is probably closest

[Mojo]

Welcome Aboard.

I rolls and rolls of acrylic fabric a year. I have standardized on Recacril and Sattler.
Their weave process is different from Sunbrella which helps to prevent stretching and shrinking. I do know their fibers, finishes and formulas are a bit different then Sunbrella. Glen raven changed their formula in ( I believe ) 2004 and went with their " next generation " Sunbrella. It is not the same as it was prior to 2004. I also really appreciate the cost savings on using Rec and Sattler versus Sunbrella. I cannot comment on Outdura but if Big Mike and the others say they like it then it must be good. They use it all the time and I have never sewn it.

In regards to thread I use Solarfix PTFE exclusively. Tenara is the PTFE thread that has given fit's to stitchers and caused tension issues. There is something about the twist in the thread that has caused this. I believe I used over 5 lbs of Solarfix last year and am past that mark already this year and have never had an issue. It is priced similar to Tenara. I also have to give props to Solarfix as they have backed me 100 % with factory support on marketing endeavors. being in the Bahama's your going to want a PTFE thread to turn out a good product. The Poly wont hold up well as your climate ( UV Rays ) are very similar to us here in Florida. You have already seen this yourself. :)

I use Recacril acrylic binding 2 et in 1 inch. For me it is must easier to sew. I have used 3/4 inch but found the 1 inch to be easier for me to catch the edges with. Others use the 3/4 " and have no problems. I use the Sailrite binder made by Sussei ( Japanese quality ). It has been an excellent binder and will screw right onto your Sailrite machine bed. It swings out of the way when not in use. Very high quality and has been a great performer for me.

I started my business using the same machine you did except it was called a Tuffsew. The parts and attachments are identical to the Sailrite machine. They are also made under other names as well. Only difference is Sailrite has their badge and color on it. The machine was made for occasional use and not production use and I wore mine out in two years time. It will easily handle acrylics and binding. It now sits in the shed and needs an overhaul. I wore that poor thing out. :)

It will handle Solarfix thread well but I would probably not try Tenara as the tension settings on these machines can be a real headache and Tenara needs an exact tension setting. Your machine will handle the Solarfix without any problems ans well as bonded Poly up to 138. Someday's my machine sewed 138 great. Other days it hated it. They can be real finicky sometimes. It handled V90 great. The 138 was pushing it to its max though.

I will caution you to keep your machine oiled real well, especially the hook. If you start getting real busy then your going to want to consider a good industrial machine. A good source for parts is either Sailrite or Bob Kovar. He is familiar with this machine under a different name " Thompson Mini Walker " and is one of the few parts dealers I found who carries items for this machine.

In regards to sourcing my materials, I use Miami exclusively. MiamiMike has gone above and beyond the call of duty to help build my business. They carry everything I need from fabric to binding to thread and are great to work with. I gave up on sourcing materials from different companies a long time ago. It was a headache dealing with different people and the shipping charges were killing me.

I wish you the best in your new business. If you encounter a problem be sure to ask for help here. The members on here are some of the very best in the business and have seen and done it all. You will no doubt find your answers here.

Chris

[islandsewing]

Thanks Chris for the detailed reply. I will be looking for an industrial machine in the future. I like the sailrite machine so far using v92 thread. I will try some v138 next time I order.
Can I get by with only 1-inch binding and a swing away binder for now or will there be instances where I will need 3/4"?

[bobbin]

If you're still in the "setting up" phase Island. I'd say go for the 1" folder over the 3/4".  1" pre-fold binding will make it a lot easier to ride up over the places where multiple layers get bulky.  (learn to cut out bulk, more later).  I have worked in 2 shops; the first had folders for both 3/4 and 1".  Both folders were right angle and both were mounted on slide plates that covered the bobbin case (vertical axis bobbin).  The second shop had the poorest binding set ups I've ever seen, lol.  One was on a slide plate but was a straight on alignment and made curves needlessly frustrating and difficult.  The "dedicated" binder (a Consew zig-zag) had a folder that was duct taped to the machine bed and again, wasn't a right angle folder even thought its main purpose was to bind curves on awning valences.  Go figure! both sucked.  When I first started working there we had to actually HOLD the folder and AIM the binding under the needle... no kidding, lol.  Binding application is important and it ought to be a fast operation.  The stitching needs to be uniform along the folded edge of the binding; stitching that "wanders" because the binding was "aimed" is not remotely OK, IMO.  Instead, it bespeaks a lack of understanding of proper binding technique and worse, parsimony on the part of the business owner.  Remember that.  

I bought an after market swingaway folder and it SUCKED; my machine is a horizontal bobbin (you load the bobbin from below the bed of the machine).  I had it retrofitted by the company that made the one I bought,  and I still don't really like it (it made 3 round trips to get it right).  I will never buy a swingaway again since it was a frustrating and expensive endeavor.  All my machines are horizontal axis machines and for that configuration it's wisest to buy the permanent binding set-up.  When you are hunting for an industrial machine make sure it's a vertical axis bobbin if you want a swingaway folder.  I have several industrial machines and I plan to make my latest purchase a "dedicated binder", a machine that is set up for the sole purpose of binding.

Cutting "bulk"... .  Every time you have an accumulation of fabric layers (on a corner) it's important to cut out the stuff that is buried and not seen.  A diagonal cut will reduce the height of the junction that the binding must ride over.  Make sense?  Great thing to know and very important to practice if you want your binding to look professionally "polished".  

[Mike]

2 things i have 2 top load binder a singer 111 and a juki 563 bolth i denticke have a remo a ble top plate over the bobbin. That the sussi binder attaches too and can be removed and eeplace with a second top plate. So there is no swingaway binder in your way at all. Ive tried the swing away. And i like this set up much better.   nd as far as 3/4" and 1" binding oem alway had 1". And many customers have a forward stock bimini. And windows. That is sunbrella with 3/4" binfi t and they want a rear top and camper enclosure so i make it to match the oem with 3/4" binding.  So i just have alway prefered the 3/4" and am used to the look.

[bobbin]

Mike, wasn't really clear on the last part of your post.  I understand that you have a slide in binder rather than a swingaway.  Not clear on whether or not you prefer 3/4 or 1" binding. 

[Mike]

Bobbin yes I prefer the cleaner less bulky look of 3/4" binding as I said I started having to match existing canvas making a camper rear to look the same, all oem canvas I seen always used 3/4" so ive gotton used to it  yes it can miss sometimes and need more care in making curves

[JuneC]

Like Mike, I like the Singer 111W for marine work, though I'm pretty much out of the canvas business, concentrating solely on upholstery.  The Singer works really well for upholstery as well.  I also have a Highlead with reverse that I use exclusively for upholstery.  For some reason I don't like the way it handles canvas.  Every stitcher has their favorite, I guess.

Which island are you on?  I'm from 'Lutra (but been in Florida for lotsa years).  Ya no da vey, eh? 

June