Why is a guy who sews canvas entitled to charge 4x as much as I make?

[Tejas]

Subject is roughly quoted from a thread on BoatOwners.com. Skipper really writes:

"I'm educated, experienced, and talented at what I do. So why is it that a guy who sews canvas is entitled to charge 4x as much as I make?"

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=151325

[sofadoc]

Comparing hourly rates is like comparing apples to oranges. Some figure all the overhead into their hourly fee, some don't.

While it might be possible that some high-end stitchers make more than some ambulance chasing lawyers, it certainly isn't the norm.

I've often thought the same thing when calculating a tip for a waiter/waitress. If everyone tipped the amount that a waiter EXPECTS, that waiter would make more than I do. While I consider waiting tables to be a noble profession, the bottom line is.......it isn't a skilled craft. So I'm not going to tip a waiter an amount that would put them in a higher income bracket than my own. 

[Mike]

a few of the posters were in favor of the canvas guys others wernt one guy said 3 or 4k for a d0dger, for me a dodger alone just the piece with frames over the bulklhead id never get close to that.   I hardly get any sailboats at all most I get are cheap and have there wife try it . one guy said "If its winter, they "can't" work. They have to collect their unemployment, and that's no joke!" I never hace didn't think I even could. has anyone else when the work ran out canvas or upholstery?  as far as shop as shop rate I have always had to work in overhead or id not still be working rent, insurance, gas, plus rising material costs and shipping . I had a boater who thought they could make 2 v  berth cusions  bought some foam at joanns and vinyl   marked al over the foam with black marker  and cut the foam with a turkey knife with no attempt to cut 90 degrees and straight gave me 5 yards of vinyl and wanted me to cover    no zippers supplied and  wanted piping top and bottom also I had to piece the boxing to just make it  I charged 180   if I had done it id have bought good firm foam sew foam and cut straight and the cost would have been allot more

[gene]

There's a blurb in this month's Readers' Digest where a guy says that it's not fair that any billionaire who wants to can come into his neighborhood and push around all the millionaires who live there.

I can only imagine how expensive things would be in Maryland if their high taxes hadn't driven off as many of the rich folks as it has in the last few years.

Bread is too expensive because rich folks don't care how much it costs. What?

gene

[scottymc]

I've often thought the same thing when calculating a tip for a waiter/waitress. If everyone tipped the amount that a waiter EXPECTS, that waiter would make more than I do. While I consider waiting tables to be a noble profession, the bottom line is.......it isn't a skilled craft. So I'm not going to tip a waiter an amount that would put them in a higher income bracket than my own.  

Really! Better not let my wife hear you say that, or any of the waiter/waitress's doing apprenticeships and attending trade school in Australia.

Amusing read :)

[Mojo]

In my part of the " canvas " world I do not set the prices. My competitors do. Most are large corporations I compete with. I appreciate them setting the prices high and delivering a sh**ty product to the coach owners. makes my job so much easier to sell.

if this guy knew my rates he would flip. I charge by the topper and never include hourly rates. I go by size of topper or awning. It just so happens that my hourly rate works out to be above average simply because the large corp's set a high price to begin with. I have also busted my butt to get production times down by making changes in my processes.

I hit the upper end of my price point so I had to start working on my margins. Through the process changes and buying fabric by the roll it has increased my profits.

This guy bitching about canvas rates would be the first to over charge if he was in the business. The problem with some customers is they cannot see what it all takes to produce what we do.

Chris

[sofadoc]

Really! Better not let my wife hear you say that, or any of the waiter/waitress's doing apprenticeships and attending trade school in Australia.

Believe me Scotty, I realize that waitstaff in many other parts of the world (such as Australia) are far more deserving to be well compensated for their services. For the prices you pay there, you expect impeccable service.......and that's exactly what you get.

It's a different atmosphere here. There are a ton of casual dining restaurants that employ minimum wage waiters. In the US, I haven't met very many waitstaff that deserved to be paid better than a skilled tradesman.
Maybe I'm just not eating at the right places ;D.

But as I said before, I consider waiting tables to be a noble profession. If I needed a job tomorrow, I'd be proud do just that.

Please convey my apologies to your wife. I'm sure that she's worth premimum tippage.

[ajlelectronics]

Interesting how things are over there. I consider it a diabolical liberty to be EXPECTED to provide a tip, let alone one of the size I gather is common. In the UK, a tip is an optional reward for service which is out of the ordinary. Typically it would be around 10% and although clearly it would be appreciated, it is by no means the rule to add a tip. That having been said, there are a few establishments who have the brass neck to add it to the bill automatically. It doesn't go down well and is a custom loser.

[scottymc]

Sofa, you probably would take up waiting tables over here at $25 an hour, dishwashers also get the same. I clean motel rooms for $27.
We only leave loose change for tips if we got real good service, it is up to the the owner of the business to make sure the staff is doing their job up to standard and hire and fire accordingly, same as hiring an upholsterer. I see a flaw in the tipping system that if I was really unhappy with the service I would just leave without tipping and the owner would never know, whereas in a non tipping environment, I would complain to management.
An Aussie friend waited tables in Hawaii  for a few years and said to get tips you sometimes had to be an entertainer in the hope of getting a decent tip, or hang around an empty restaurant all night for $5hr, not really fair.     

[JuneC]

Subject is roughly quoted from a thread on BoatOwners.com. Skipper really writes:

"I'm educated, experienced, and talented at what I do. So why is it that a guy who sews canvas is entitled to charge 4x as much as I make?"

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=151325

Well, I'm educated (BA in Accounting (now don't laugh ;-()), experienced (7 years in canvas, 22 years in IT Systems Integration (plant floor and warehousing) and as for the talented bit, that remains to be seen.  And you know what?  I'm driving a 13 year old Toyota, living in middle class America because I can't afford to buy myself a new Escalade etc. etc....  I'm not aware of any custom canvas supplier who's getting rich.    except maybe Mojo  ;)

As for servers who are making $25 an hour.... sign me up!  In this country it's maybe $2 an hour plus tips.

June

[Mojo]

June:

I wished I was 30 years younger. I would be making some serious money today. But I no longer have the health or stamina to go after these big business deals. So I control my growth carefully and accept what comes to me along with taking my measly earnings and hand it over to my boss........the wife. If I woukld have known all the money is in marine work I would have done that....lol.. :)

Scotty, the basic wage for wait staff in the USA is $ 2.35 per hour. That is federal minimum wage law for waiters. In a high end restaurant or a busy one waiters can make good money. Same for bartenders. Dishwashers fall under the other min wage law of $ 7.35 per hour ( I think that's the recent number ). They are at the bottom of the totem pole and are typically treated like crap.

Typical tipping for customers is 15 % of the bill. If we get exceptional service my wife and I will tip 20 %. If service was poor much less. During Christmas time we always tip heavy. I never withhold tips if the food is bad. The wait staff doesnt cook it.

I was in Katomba ( Blue Mountains ) with the wife and asked my waitress 3 times for water. I finally got up and got it myself. I was so pissed I told the wife " this woman is NOT getting a tip. She said " thats OK because they don't tip in Australia "....lol
We attended an opera at Sydneys Opera house a week later and ate afterwards at a nice place. The waiter was awesome and I tipped him a normal 15 %. The wife said " you probably now have a best friend ".

I have had horrible service in Oz and good service. Same for the US. But at least in the US I can make my displeasure known to the waiter through my tip. :)

Aussies are shocked at what yanks tip for. Hotel baggage staff, maids at hotels, taxi drivers, baggage handlers at the airports, etc. My brother in law about freaked out at all the tipping that goes on here.

Chris

[scottymc]

I worked in Vail in the Rockies in the 80's as a maintenance, I used to have arguments with some customers because they tried to give me a tip and I would say no thanks I got paid to do the job you don't need to do that. I point blank refused to take there money as I found it embarrassing, little did I realize that I was embarrassing them by my refusals.
Most of the places my missus worked at shared the tips with the kitchen hands and dishwasher, there is no busboy that's the waiters job, as far as bad waiters go well like any good business the owner is in charge and the buck stops with him, so if he isn't taking enough interest in who is a good or bad worker then he deserves to lose your business.
I feel the whole deal of paying someone 2 bucks an hour make bosses a bit slack, like they can roster on 2 waiters when he knows there is only going to be enough customers for one, but at 2 bucks an hour why not, in Aus he is up for around 25 bucks with a 3 hour minimum, so the boss has to know his business, it's not uncommon to have the owner of a swish restaurant waiting on you.
My wife loves American because on a good night she picked up $50 in tips, cause Australians tip just like Americans(must have seen it on TV)  monkey see monkey do  ::)         

[gene]

Do you remember this from a few months ago?

http://rt.com/usa/god-tips-waitress-applebees-272/


Waiters and waitresses following customers outside the restaurant who do not tip, supposedly to ask the customers why they did not tip, seems to be a not too unusual accordance.

gene

[sofadoc]

Do you remember this from a few months ago?
http://rt.com/usa/god-tips-waitress-applebees-272/

Waiters and waitresses following customers outside the restaurant who do not tip, supposedly to ask the customers why they did not tip, seems to be a not too unusual accordance.

The pastor in the story uses a very poor analogy. A 10% tithe is meant to be 10% of EVERYTHING you earn. Not just 10% (or in this case 18%) of a bill at a restaurant. If Applebee's was charging the pastor 18% of her total salary, then she would have a point.

Still, I don't agree with a restaurant setting their own tip fees. They charge outrageous prices for the food, and then they expect you to pay their employees' salaries.   

[Mojo]

I agree Dennis. I wont eat at a restaurant that includes a tip on the bill. That is my business not theirs.

My daughter worked for a brief time for Ruby Tuesdays and many customers would include the tip with their payment when using a VISA card. Ruby's was pocketing some of those tips and some of their wait staff never seen some of the tips.

I always pay cash directly to the waiter even if I am paying with a credit card. Especially at the big chains.

Scott: Why didn't you stay in the USA ? My Aussie relies love America and have a blast whenever they come over. They always leave extra room in their suitcases to take home clothes and shoes. I guess the selection there is not good and if you have large feet shoes can be hard to find. My BIL and nephew both wear size 15 shoes. I guess the shoes and clothes are cheaper here as well.

Chris