Having been in the upholstery business many years I find myself reflecting on the changes in the manufacturing technology. For example, La-Z-Boy chairs.
Years ago the equipment used in small custom shops (like mine) pretty much paralleled what the manufacturers used. Reeling forward in time, to day, we essentially use the same or almost same equipment we did years ago. This isn't true for the furniture manufacturers, more specifically La-Z-Boy today or even La-Z-Boy recliners made some 20 years ago.
Further, I just redid two La-Z-Boy recliners that were approximately 20 years ago.
These chairs has considerable gathering of the covering fabric in the seams of the back rest, around the arm caps, and the drop down apron that extends from the footrest up to the bottom cushion. Yes, gathers all along these seams.
I am familiar with differential feed capability on machines and these gathers were so systematic, it is obvious that capability did the gathering before the seams, mentioned above, were made.
Further, in past discussions here, upholsters have commented on their techniques to emualate the gathered look. Some sew a low tension seam and pull one of the threads to do the gathering. That will gather the material. Some will mark registrations, as intervals, that are used to induce fullness in seams.
My real point of delivery here is I have and did attempt these tricks to achieve fullness with some success but there are different issues in the type of work on these recliners. Some times when joining two layers one layer is not gathered while the other layer is. Then, sometimes the requirement is to gather both seams (which gets more complicated), then there is the added requirement to both gathered, where the gathers have to be done at distances accuracies which meet cushion cover length, and width specifications. Those who have immersed themselves into this type work will understand what is being said and the associated challenges.
I don't do many of these chairs because of the price of new cheaply made recliners (need more be said ;). However, there are a few who want them done and are willing to pay because of their superior construction and preferred smaller style.
The major point here, if there is one ;D, is to ask if there are any techniques for doing this type work with the equipment we typically have in our small custom business today? Something that maybe adds to what has been aluded to above.?
It is one challenge to run a loose stitch and drawstring a gather but another to do it on examples cited above where the situation sometimes requires:
One layer only gathered
Two or both layers gathered (at even fullness)
Then one or both of the above situations incorporated into a fitted covered.
As you might "gather", that is my story. ;)
Am I the only one doing this type of stuff? Surely not, if not you will probably agree it is -NOT - all you do is "just"!.
Any tips? (Except go differential feed and hook a computer to it like La-Z-Boy has done?)
Doyle
Hi Doyle,
I have found the easiest way to gather seams is to use elastic. I have a machine dedicated to this use with an attachment, but I use it for other purposes. If you have an attachment that you can set up and take down easily, you can use it to do both pcs. of fabric at the same time when you want that look, or just do one fabric edge and not the other. If you have no attachment, then apply a steady pull on the elastic as you sew it on top (or bottom) of the fabric edge. You don't have to wrap it around the fabric edge, laying flat on one side does the trick.The benefit of the attachment is that is will apply a constant, uniform stretch to the elastic. The finished look is just like what the factory is doing.
And yes, I agree with you about being very particular with this type of work. I always start off any conversation with a customer who would like to have a recliner with a rough comparison of the costs. They'd really have to be in love with their old recliner to want me to reupholster it.
Rich
Rich
Elastic seams and charge more. Which you already do.
I can't see having a set up for this type of technique unless you do it aLOT.
Like Rich, I use elastic. I don't have any special attachment, though.
Like both of you, I explain to the customer that the job may not be cost effective if price is their only concern.
20 years ago, I was doing over 50 La-Z-Boys a year. Now I do less than 20 of them.
In terms of quality, La-Z-Boy used to be head and shoulders above the other brands. But the other brands got a little better, while La-Z-boy got a lot worse. Now, they've all kinda met in the middle.
Like the other two said, I also use elastic when gathering is needed. It really doesn't add that much more to time to sew on the elastic.
What size elastic do you guys use when you're using it to achieve and even gather? my guess would be 1/2" but maybe you prefer something narrower? And I think that's a very clever way of dealing with gathering, BTW!
Doyle, I was thinking about your well-written post while painting fence posts. I have a 5 thread overlock machine that has differential feed capacity. I've used the feed adjustment to make fabrics like polar fleece feed more evenly. And I've always wondered about using it to achieve a more evenly shirred effect with sheer fabrics (think frothy, "girlie" window treatments like Austrian shades). The machine is very fast and I bought it set up to work on heavy denims, so I bet it would work for upholstery weight fabrics with no trouble, perhaps requiring a few tweaks. I want to make sheer shades for my workroom and I should "get busy" playing around with it and see what comes of the effort.
Interesting post.
Ditto on the elastic, I use 1/4 or 3/8" heavy duty purpose.
Kyle
sometimes I use elastic
sometimes I zigzag over a string, and pull the string
the string is the weight used for balloons (is that the same for kites?)
I use a verrrrrry narrow zigzag. It is just wide enough to go over the string
The string is knotted at the begining of the seam and
the left side of the zigzag stitch will be at the seam line (all the stitch and string is in the seam allowance)
Then I pull the string to the length I want the seam to be
Works great
Quote from: bobbin on September 20, 2010, 10:00:04 am
What size elastic do you guys use when you're using it to achieve and even gather? my guess would be 1/2" but maybe you prefer something narrower?
I usually just wait until my Fruit of the Looms are wore out, and save the elastic :D
If it's a rush job, I have to "go commando" for the rest of the day!
Lol, but how much "pop" in left in worn out skivvies, Sofa.?
According to my wife, my skivvies haven't had much "pop" in YEARS!!
(Double entendre) ;)
Good turnout on using elastic and I am also included in that group.
The width, the question was raised, I use is a function of upholstery material weight and to a degree on how much differential in the gathering. Lighter weight fabrics would gather easily with 3/8 or 1/4 inch width elastic.
I was rather impressed with Joy's technique of zig zagging over a cord. Joy is there a preference for that over elastic? I believe it would be centered primarily around non systematic gathering requirements and avoidance of bulk. Non systematic gathering requirements, for example, are when it is desireable to vary the degree of gathering along a seam. It happens as I encountered that with the previous La-Z-Boy recliners, done last week. Regarding the bulk, I am assuming the cord is less bulk in the seam than elastic?
And Bobbin,
I believe your right on to serge and the reason is synthetic fabrics we use today seem to ravel much easier than in the past. They sure ravel, even the mere handling during sewing encourages raveling. Further, since you have the differential feed, why wouldn't that make the gathering a one step operation which includes serging to counter raveling? I think so.
Good comments, anyone else?
Doyle
I find that I have much more control over the gathering when I use string
I can gather as much as I want, and as little as I want
and where I want
The gathering stays put while I sew seams together
I have a LOT less bulk than with elastic
the string is also a faster technique
String size Joy, less than our typical nylon button twine? It is much smaller isn't it? Maybe the size used in handstitching hair to burlap in the old days?
Something equivalent to that sewn, or serged, fairly tight but loose enough to slip the fabric is easy to envision as a facilitating technique.
Doyle
yes
the string is smaller than button twine
I'm confused here. Not a little, but a lot.
First off, what model is this 'new' La-Z-Boy computerized machine you speak of? Did you see it? I just question this machine as a pie in the sky model, when in fact in reality it's being done on an industry common model with puller or the such.
As well...I seen five thread overlock with differential feed, zig zag lock stitch, and other stuff. I think we are not all on the same page here, or are discussing different sewn goods. Or the same goods being done the same way. I have no idea!
Can we see pics? Both the original being copied for La-Z-Boy and what you are working on? I see too often what people are tring to describe in text is nothing of what I am thinking of when a sample shows up.
My 5 thread overlock is a standard issue W&G, present set up is a tractor foot, 1/2" gauge, and it has a differential feed on the bottom. I have never used the feature to its fullest capacity, but have used it to help feed lofty fabrics under the needle(s) more easily and evenly. It's a 514, I think... came with a spreader (4 thread) and I had it converted to another looper for 5 threads. I've made a fair amount of swimwear with it, too. My guess is that it's a c. 1977/8, thereabouts... green gingham formica!
Gregg: Here is a simple example of the gathered seams on a La-Z-Boy recliner that we have to re-create: http://www.la-z-boy.com/Furniture/Recliners/?cid=1
Look at the arms of the recliner that the man is sitting in.
I achieve the gathers on one like this using elastic.
Some of the gathered seams are MUCH more complex than this one.
Also, scroll down the page to view some with gathers on the inside back, seat, footrest,etc..
I would be hard pressed to believe that La Z Boy would be using elastic to gather anything in a manufacturing setting. My guess would be they're using dedicated machinery to shir the fabric to the adjoining piece in one operation. I am picturing a walking foot machine with a pretty heavy duty shirring capacity. I don't know, but suspect, the machine is likely a single needle (overlock is likely unnecessary for this application) but may have a looper in place of a bobbin... (faster! and less difficult to adjust for tension).
Greg?
Quote from: bobbin on September 22, 2010, 03:37:33 pm
I would be hard pressed to believe that La Z Boy would be using elastic to gather anything in a manufacturing setting.
Some of the seams sewn in a La-Z-Boy factory ARE sewn with elastic. Such as the seat on a chaise recliner, or a gathered footrest. But many of the seams do seem to employ some type of shirring method.
Many of their techniques I don't even attempt to duplicate. I've never had any complaints about the difference.
As it is now I have to charge nearly as much as a new one. If I had to duplicate every single seam, I would have to charge even more.
That surprises me, Sofa., but you learn something new every day and that's why I really like this site a lot!
I'm not surprised that your labor to recover a frame is equal to (or nearly so) to an new recliner. It always costs more to take something apart, and put it back together again. I get asked all the time to replace rotted out slings on the folding "directors" chairs... I tell people they won't like the price and to go to Pier I Imports for imported replacements... . Most do, but some still say... I like you, and I'd rather pay you and have it look the way I want it to look.
Totally aside: do you find the "guts" of older recliners to be superior to the newer models? I ask because a very nice guy who's done reupholstery for me in the past has been very frank about "worthiness" and how fit/"worthy" a frame is for reupholstery. I've learned a lot from him over the years and can pretty much spot a "good frame" at the kerb from 30 mph. I've scored some real "plums" over the years because he's given me good info. on what to "look for".
Bobbin: I often hear people say "They don't make them as well as they used to". Actually they DO (but the well made ones cost a fortune).
There's a ton of cheap crap on the market now.
La-Z-Boy's mechs are much softer than they used to be. They use plywood in a lot of areas that they didn't use to.
I'm not suprised that you can spot a good one from the curb.
Frankly, I don't even like recliners any more. I don't like doing them, and I don't own one myself.
I LOVE repairing them (changing mechs, fixing broken springs, frame repairs, etc..)
I average over $60 hr. doing recliner repairs. If I had enough of them, I wouldn't do anything else.
Sofadoc and bobbin,
I did check the pic, and read your posts. If you guy are really serious about finding out how they do this, or anybody else for that matter, take a sewn sample and send it to me. I really need to have a sample in my hand. All you would need to do is stick in in the mail or UPS it if you like.
Now, I don't have all the answers here, BUT I have a lot of recourses who do. Sometimes I can figure things out, sometimes I need to reach out to my network. My Dad is one, with only 40 plus years in the industry. I have others as well. Nothing may come out of it, but it's usually a great learning opertunity for me.
A good example is a customer who was looking for a way to sew the stripe down the side if flight pants, or in this case, a police uniform. Now, they could do it, BUT they had to rip the pants apart to do so. They KNEW their competition at the time was able to do this, but they could not find out how. Myself, I had no clue! BUT, I knew someone who did. They were able to explain it to me in a way that I knew what to do in about two minutes. Keep in mind, I also knew who to go to with this. This for me is key. So, in other words, if I don't know, I'll find out!
Quote from: Gregg @ Keystone Sewing on September 22, 2010, 08:49:31 pm
If you guy are really serious about finding out how they do this, or anybody else for that matter, take a sewn sample and send it to me.
I will send you a factory-sewn arm panel for a La-Z-Boy. Feel free to disect it, I don't want it back. I'll also send you a scrap piece that I gathered using the elastic method. Take note of the difference in the appearance of the gathers.
But don't spend a lot of time researching it on MY behalf. I don't do that many of them, and I'm fairly satisfied using elastic.
I think that DB's point is: They seem to have the gathering down to a science. For us, there's more trial and error involved in sewing a gathered panel to an un-gathered panel, and making them come out even.
I personally couldn't justify the cost of a different machine, or even some fairly expensive attachment.
But I think we would all like to hear your recommendation once you see the samples.
Awsome. I'll be on the lookout for them to arrive, and will report back as soon as I get a look. And don't always assume you will need a new machine or fancy custom attachment.
Quote from: sofadoc on September 23, 2010, 03:21:28 pm
Quote from: Gregg @ Keystone Sewing on September 22, 2010, 08:49:31 pm
If you guy are really serious about finding out how they do this, or anybody else for that matter, take a sewn sample and send it to me.
I will send you a factory-sewn arm panel for a La-Z-Boy. Feel free to disect it, I don't want it back. I'll also send you a scrap piece that I gathered using the elastic method. Take note of the difference in the appearance of the gathers.
But don't spend a lot of time researching it on MY behalf. I don't do that many of them, and I'm fairly satisfied using elastic.
I think that DB's point is: They seem to have the gathering down to a science. For us, there's more trial and error involved in sewing a gathered panel to an un-gathered panel, and making them come out even.
I personally couldn't justify the cost of a different machine, or even some fairly expensive attachment.
But I think we would all like to hear your recommendation once you see the samples.
QuoteI will send you a factory-sewn arm panel for a La-Z-Boy. Feel free to disect it,
Sofadoc:
The age of the sample might be interesting to know, at a point in time, approximately 20 years ago, La-Z-Boy quite often used a differential feed, chain stitch, unision feed machine to do the gathering of a panel then, a lock stitch machine to join panels. Therefore the process might be envisioned as a two pass procedure.
In addition, they did use elastic in certain applications which is an interesting topic within itself.
All said to point out that what we are learning may not be exactly their current process.
It is easy to get lost in thoughts when tearing some of this work down for rework. There are so many artifacts that tease the mind.
In summary, the manufacturers usually lead with their technology and since we are reupholsterers, due to the time elapse, our understanding usually lags by a few years. All logical.
Doye
DB: The sample that I'm going to send to Gregg is a brand new cut, sewn, and stuffed arm panel straight from the showroom floor of a local retailer (it was damaged in shipping).
Really, I guess that my only question is "How do they determine in advance exactly how much to gather?" I stretch elastic as I sew it to one panel, which can lead to slightly inconsistent gathers.
All things considered, I'm happy with the results that I'm getting. But, I'm always willing to hear other ideas.
Who knows? maybe Gregg's got a "Miracle in a bottle". ;)
Quote from: sofadoc on September 23, 2010, 08:38:21 pm
maybe Gregg's got a "Miracle in a bottle". ;)
Or maybe not? LOL. Let's see.
Quote from: Joys Shop on September 20, 2010, 02:15:27 pm
sometimes I zigzag over a string, and pull the string
the string is the weight used for balloons (is that the same for kites?)
The zig-zag over string method gives the best control but I learned using YARN. the yarn squishes down to nothing. also when it is not under tension it expands and that tends to hold the work in place. I BOUGHT a zig-zag machine (Singer 70 U) for this purpose and to bar-tack draperies.
Ok. Sofadoc sent me the sample. Nothing exotic IMO. Two machines, two passes. First pass is through one layer on a single thread chain stitch, 101 stitch. Second pass is through both layers with a lockstitch, 301 stitch.
Now...I'm not exactly sure how they are 'gathering' the first pass with the chainstitch, but it looks like it's being done by hand with no guide or attachment. In fact, I'm sure other areas are more difficult to sew.
Greg, would they perhaps have used some sort of gathering attachment or simply a differential feed to create the gathering on the piece in question?
QuoteNow...I'm not exactly sure how they are 'gathering' the first pass with the chainstitch, but it looks like it's being done by hand with no guide or attachment.
I am not looking at the sample sent, but referencing the two chairs I just finished, the gathering was not done by hand. The gathers are too systematic to be manual. Plus, they were able to vary the degree of gathering to achieve the fit of cut pattens to fit various components of the chair.
in a factory setting, it would be much too inefficient to do it manually. I also noted that the gathering is done for esthetic reasons as well as practical. By practical, my analysis of their seam work means it lowers their number of pieces that have to be patterned and joined. They mask over detailed fitting requirements via their gathering. Something someone with considerable experience in this area would note.
La-Z-Boys gathering technique is impressively implemented when understanding how it plays out in patterning requirements, efficiency, and affects. It is impossible to duplicate as systematically as they have in a custom shop as many of us work in.
Small shops, can make the job look presentable but not equal to much of the gathering results accomplished by La-Z-Boy.
As a starter for gaining insight into the La-Z-Boy operation is to understand the equipment that they use which produces the very systematic fulness in gathers but obviously has variable settings. I mused over their work and several questions came up, were attachments used and was the machine a differential walking foot machine?
All my comments and thoughts are based on complete reupholstery of complete chairs which I did note a variance in their technique of gathering. They did used elastic in the apron that extends from the cushion to the footrest, like I say their technique employed varied due to the requirement being accomplished for different parts of the chair. Therefore, what Greg saw might not represent what one would see if an entire chair was inspected?
Doyle
Doyle sums it up pretty well. Factories that are mass producing can get their gathering down to a uniform science. Small shops that are doing jobs one at a time will have some variance. Whether we use elastic, or some type of pull string, we can achieve a good result. It just won't exactly match the appearance of a factory job.
As it has been stated, most people just dispose of those sub $500 recliners, and buy new. So I really don't do that many of them any more (and glad I don't).
The sample piece that I sent to Gregg looked to me like it was gathered with some type of shirring foot. Or maybe they sew a loose stitch, and then fit it over a mold, and then pull the loose stitch tight. This would give them the uniformity.
Whatever the method, I guess I'll just keep doin' what I been doin'. I haven't had a customer notice the difference so far.
So, for me anyway, this topic should be re-titled "Sewing technology remains stagnant" :D