Sewing Technology Marches On!

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

I'm confused here.  Not a little, but a lot.

First off, what model is this 'new' La-Z-Boy computerized machine you speak of?  Did you see it?  I just question this machine as a pie in the sky model, when in fact in reality it's being done on an industry common model with puller or the such.

As well...I seen five thread overlock with differential feed, zig zag lock stitch, and other stuff.  I think we are not all on the same page here, or are discussing different sewn goods.  Or the same goods being done the same way.  I have no idea!

Can we see pics?  Both the original being copied for La-Z-Boy and what you are working on?  I see too often what people are tring to describe in text is nothing of what I am thinking of when a sample shows up. 

[bobbin]

My 5 thread overlock is a standard issue W&G, present set up is a tractor foot, 1/2" gauge, and it has a differential feed on the bottom.  I have never used the feature to its fullest capacity, but have used it to help feed lofty fabrics under the needle(s) more easily and evenly.  It's a 514, I think... came with a spreader (4 thread) and I had it converted to another looper for 5 threads.  I've made a fair amount of swimwear with it, too.  My guess is that it's a c. 1977/8, thereabouts... green gingham formica!

[sofadoc]

Gregg: Here is a simple example of the gathered seams on a La-Z-Boy recliner that we have to re-create:   http://www.la-z-boy.com/Furniture/Recliners/?cid=1
Look at the arms of the recliner that the man is sitting in.
I achieve the gathers on one like this using elastic.
Some of the gathered seams are MUCH more complex than this one.
Also, scroll down the page to view some with gathers on the inside back, seat, footrest,etc..

[bobbin]

I would be hard pressed to believe that La Z Boy would be using elastic to gather anything in a manufacturing setting.  My guess would be they're using dedicated machinery to shir the fabric to the adjoining piece in one operation.  I am picturing a walking foot machine with a pretty heavy duty shirring capacity.  I don't know, but suspect, the machine is likely a single needle (overlock is likely unnecessary for this application) but may have a looper in place of a bobbin...  (faster! and less difficult to adjust for tension).

Greg?

[sofadoc]

I would be hard pressed to believe that La Z Boy would be using elastic to gather anything in a manufacturing setting.

Some of the seams sewn in a La-Z-Boy factory ARE sewn with elastic. Such as the seat on a chaise recliner, or a gathered footrest. But many of the seams do seem to employ some type of shirring method.
Many of their techniques I don't even attempt to duplicate. I've never had any complaints about the difference.
As it is now I have to charge nearly as much as a new one. If I had to duplicate every single seam, I would have to charge even more.

[bobbin]

That surprises me, Sofa., but you learn something new every day and that's why I really like this site a lot!

I'm not surprised that your labor to recover a frame is equal to (or nearly so) to an new recliner.  It always costs more to take something apart, and put it back together again.  I get asked all the time to replace rotted out slings on the folding "directors" chairs... I tell people they won't like the price and to go to Pier I Imports for imported replacements... .  Most do, but some still say... I like you, and I'd rather pay you and have it look the way I want it to look. 

Totally aside:  do you find the "guts" of older recliners to be superior to the newer models?  I ask because a very nice guy who's done reupholstery for me in the past has been very frank about "worthiness" and how fit/"worthy" a frame is for reupholstery.  I've learned a lot from him over the years and can pretty much spot a "good frame" at the kerb from 30 mph.  I've scored some real "plums" over the years because he's given me good info. on what to "look for". 

[sofadoc]

Bobbin: I often hear people say "They don't make them as well as they used to". Actually they DO (but the well made ones cost a fortune).
There's a ton of cheap crap on the market now.
La-Z-Boy's mechs are much softer than they used to be. They use plywood in a lot of areas that they didn't use to.
I'm not suprised that you can spot a good one from the curb.
Frankly, I don't even like recliners any more. I don't like doing them, and I don't own one myself.
I LOVE repairing them (changing mechs, fixing broken springs, frame repairs, etc..)
I average over $60 hr. doing recliner repairs. If I had enough of them, I wouldn't do anything else.

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

Sofadoc and bobbin,

I did check the pic, and read your posts.  If you guy are really serious about finding out how they do this, or anybody else for that matter, take a sewn sample and send it to me.  I really need to have a sample in my hand.  All you would need to do is stick in in the mail or UPS it if you like.

Now, I don't have all the answers here, BUT I have a lot of recourses who do.  Sometimes I can figure things out, sometimes I need to reach out to my network.  My Dad is one, with only 40 plus years in the industry.  I have others as well.  Nothing may come out of it, but it's usually a great learning opertunity for me.  

A good example is a customer who was looking for a way to sew the stripe down the side if flight pants, or in this case, a police uniform.  Now, they could do it, BUT they had to rip the pants apart to do so.  They KNEW their competition at the time was able to do this, but they could not find out how.  Myself, I had no clue!  BUT, I knew someone who did.  They were able to explain it to me in a way that I knew what to do in about two minutes.  Keep in mind, I also knew who to go to with this.  This for me is key.  So, in other words, if I don't know, I'll find out!

[sofadoc]

If you guy are really serious about finding out how they do this, or anybody else for that matter, take a sewn sample and send it to me.

I will send you a factory-sewn arm panel for a La-Z-Boy. Feel free to disect it, I don't want it back. I'll also send you a scrap piece that I gathered using the elastic method. Take note of the difference in the appearance of the gathers.
But don't spend a lot of time researching it on MY behalf. I don't do that many of them, and I'm fairly satisfied using elastic.
I think that DB's point is: They seem to have the gathering down to a science. For us, there's more trial and error involved in sewing a gathered panel to an un-gathered panel, and making them come out even.
I personally couldn't justify the cost of a different machine, or even some fairly expensive attachment.
But I think we would all like to hear your recommendation once you see the samples.

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

Awsome.  I'll be on the lookout for them to arrive, and will report back as soon as I get a look.  And don't always assume you will need a new machine or fancy custom attachment.

If you guy are really serious about finding out how they do this, or anybody else for that matter, take a sewn sample and send it to me.

I will send you a factory-sewn arm panel for a La-Z-Boy. Feel free to disect it, I don't want it back. I'll also send you a scrap piece that I gathered using the elastic method. Take note of the difference in the appearance of the gathers.
But don't spend a lot of time researching it on MY behalf. I don't do that many of them, and I'm fairly satisfied using elastic.
I think that DB's point is: They seem to have the gathering down to a science. For us, there's more trial and error involved in sewing a gathered panel to an un-gathered panel, and making them come out even.
I personally couldn't justify the cost of a different machine, or even some fairly expensive attachment.
But I think we would all like to hear your recommendation once you see the samples.

[baileyuph]

I will send you a factory-sewn arm panel for a La-Z-Boy. Feel free to disect it,

Sofadoc:

The age of the sample might be interesting to know, at a point in time, approximately 20 years ago, La-Z-Boy quite often used a differential feed, chain stitch, unision feed machine to do the gathering of a panel then, a lock stitch machine to join panels.  Therefore the process might be envisioned as a two pass procedure.

In addition, they did use elastic in certain applications which is an interesting topic within itself.

All said to point out that what we are learning may not be exactly their current process.

It is easy to get lost in thoughts when tearing some of this work down for rework.  There are so many artifacts that tease the mind.

In summary, the manufacturers usually lead with their technology and since we are reupholsterers, due to the time elapse, our understanding usually lags by a few years.  All logical.

Doye

[sofadoc]

DB: The sample that I'm going to send to Gregg is a brand new cut, sewn, and stuffed arm panel straight from the showroom floor of a local retailer (it was damaged in shipping).
Really, I guess that my only question is "How do they determine in advance exactly how much to gather?" I stretch elastic as I sew it to one panel, which can lead to slightly inconsistent gathers.
All things considered, I'm happy with the results that I'm getting. But, I'm always willing to hear other ideas.
Who knows? maybe Gregg's got a "Miracle in a bottle". ;)

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

maybe Gregg's got a "Miracle in a bottle". ;)

Or maybe not?  LOL.  Let's see.

[ThrowMeAPillow]

sometimes I zigzag over a string, and pull the string

the string is the weight used for balloons (is that the same for kites?)

The zig-zag over string method gives the best control but I learned using YARN.  the yarn squishes down to nothing.  also when it is not under tension it expands and that tends to hold the work in place.  I BOUGHT a zig-zag machine (Singer 70 U) for this purpose and to bar-tack draperies.

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

Ok.  Sofadoc sent me the sample.  Nothing exotic IMO.  Two machines, two passes.  First pass is through one layer on a single thread chain stitch, 101 stitch.  Second pass is through both layers with a lockstitch, 301 stitch. 

Now...I'm not exactly sure how they are 'gathering' the first pass with the chainstitch, but it looks like it's being done by hand with no guide or attachment.  In fact, I'm sure other areas are more difficult to sew.