I was just curious if any of you operate with backup bobbin cases.
I sew with two different thread types and sizes - Solarfix 2000 and Sunguard 138. I just started using two bobbin cases to alleviate the need to constantly adjust my bobbin tension when switching between different thread.
I have a bobbin case for the Solarfix and one for the 138 Poly and I keep the one I am not using in a bag in a drawer. All I do is switch the bobbin case when I switch thread. It has worked perfectly for me and I typically only have to make a slight adjustment on the upper tension.
Do you use multiple bobbin cases like this or do you adjust the tension each time you switch thread ?
Chris
If I understand what you are saying Chris, that would be an efficient idea for a bottom loader. But, on a top loader, if I have the technical understanding correctly, it might not be as practical for the top loading bobbin.
Sure makes sense to pop in the new case with bobbin instead of going through the back and forth adjustments just to change thread size. That is a merit of a bottom loader, seems to me anyway.
I don't suggest it is cost effective in a one machine set up but in a shop with multiple machine shop, well you know the answer, set one machine up for a thread and another for the other thread. That way the threading and top adjustment requirement is at least minimized.
Good idea Chris, what does the extra bobbin case cost? I haven't bought any lately?
Doyle
I have top loaders but honestly ive not had a pronlem switching from v92 sunguard to tenara 92
So no.
I s ne er used a bottom loAder. Wouldnt it be s bit more difficult to change the bobbin. Dont you have to raisr the mChine and hole it while opening the bobbin and hanging the spool all while holding the machine up?
We had someone else here who does that. I think it may have been Stitcher.
I don't change thread size all that often, but I've always felt comfortable making any final tension adjustmets with the top tension alone. But separate bobbin cases certainly can't hurt.
On a top loader, if you rotate the bobbin case just right, and have the right little screwdriver, you can adjust the bobbin tension with out removing it. Like Doyle says, separate bobbin cases on a top load machine wouldn't be efficient.
I should have been a bit more clear, yes this is my bottom loading Chandler I am talking about.
You can pick up new bobbin cases for around $ 15 - 20. It saves me time not having to screw around setting the bottom tension when going from the Solarfix to 138 poly.
Of course I cannot do this on my top loading Juki.
Chris
Quote from: MikeM8560 on July 27, 2012, 06:02:39 am
I s ne er used a bottom loAder. Wouldnt it be s bit more difficult to change the bobbin. Dont you have to raisr the mChine and hole it while opening the bobbin and hanging the spool all while holding the machine up?
No, you don't have to raise the head up. Once you get used to it, you can "blindly" run your hand underneath, and change the bobbin case from the bottom. I've seen a few that raise the head because their drip pan isn't cut out properly.
That is a good idea Chris,
Never saw the need for it but if you have to adjust often it should be helpful. One thing I don't understand in this thread (no pun intended) is a top loader being different. My Pfaff was a top load bobbin and it had an adjusting screw same as my side load Consew. Are the ones talked about here the type you just drop a bobbin in the top? No bobbin case?
Yeah, the Pfaff top load has the removable bobbin case. But with all the Singer compatible top load machines, you would have to either rotate the hand wheel to access the tension adjustment screw, or remove the 3 little screws and retaining bar that keeps the bobbin case in the hook chamber.
But for me, if I switch threads, I'm able to make any necessary tension adjustments with the top tension discs. But I can see where it would help you guys that make more drastic thread changes.
Paul:
Dennis is correct. On my Juki 563 the bobbin just drops in the top. There is no case.
It is the first top load machine I have ever used and I prefer the bottom load machines myself.
You typically have to be very vigilant on holding and pulling the threads when starting a new stitch run.
On my Chandler it could care less. I let the threads lay loose and start a stitch run and it will sew without jamming. I finally had to get into the habit of holding the thread when I got the Juki. It is a bit more persnickety on stitch run starts and will jam.
Chris
Paul is right, Pfaff is a more or less third concept or at least different as a top loader. It is probably fair, in a simple sense, to simply call the Pfaff a cap with a gension spring and it does work very well. Probably as well as any other engineering.
Chris, I agree that on start up, the bottom loader is more forgiving. I have sewn on some that it is almost a must to hold the thread and what got me to thinking, some top loaders did not require thread restraint. That said, this isn't theoretical, but I have learned pragmatically that my top loader can be started without holding given: The thread tension is absolutely adjusted evenly and not too tight (tension). The take up spring is calibrated, there is no wear in the thread path and the bobbin pull back lever is adjusted to specifications. When going through all these adjustments, my test for correctness among these parameters is when sewing can commence without holding thread.
A point, sometimes when thread bunches on startup, I have found operator error (for example the knee was leaning on the lift), the needle size for the thread is not correct, or there is dirt or something a foul in the thread path.
Again, the bottom loader might be more for giving on this "wrapping" issue (thread wrapping around the case). That would make a very interesting topic of discussion from literally machine engineers. I have asked mechanics about it and most say it involves the machine from head to toe being in tune, I believe them. They, the mechanics, stressed no burrs on anything in the bobbin case, the pull back lever adjustment, cleanliness of the entire bobbin area even the center needle and bobbin covers. One mechanics emphasized checking the covers for bends. He said just dropping the feet down on the cover, over time can bend the covers. Another parameter, with respect to "wrapping", is the thread. Synthetic threads are harder on a machine than cotton or some other natural content, hence can facilitate bobbin wrapping.
Sometimes, I get the thought that these machines are just about as complex as auto engines. Some have suggested they are more complex.
I have all three discussed here. The top, the bottom, and more than one Pfaff. I like all of them when they are in good condition and adjusted properly.
You know, all said, I never met many machines I didn't like, especially when they were in good operating order. To achieve a lock stitch that is good, it doesn't require a new machine, it requires a good machine with specification. Hip pocket mechanic talking here, definitely not a Bob Kovar type or any mechanic who makes his living working on these machines. BTW, they can be worth their weight in a precious metal, if they know what they are doing.
All said, which can lead to a logical question; is there a preferred primer on any of these machines. The Pfaff in particular, Greg sent me some page copies from his library that have been extremely helpful. Those Germans are so thorough. I do have a small primer for the Singer technology, it is really good!
Doyle
Quote from: DB on July 28, 2012, 06:26:35 am
I have sewn on some that it is almost a must to hold the thread and what got me to thinking, some top loaders did not require thread restraint. That said, this isn't theoretical, but I have learned pragmatically that my top loader can be started without holding given: The thread tension is absolutely adjusted evenly and not too tight (tension). The take up spring is calibrated, there is no wear in the thread path and the bobbin pull back lever is adjusted to specifications. When going through all these adjustments, my test for correctness among these parameters is when sewing can commence without holding thread.
So you're saying that if everything is perfectly adjusted, holding the thread on startup isn't necessary (for top loaders). If that's the case, then I have never had a perfectly adjusted machine.
Over the years, as shops closed, I've acquired (and quickly sold) more than a dozen top load machines. Singer, Pfaff, Juki, and Consew. And a few off-brands. I had to hold the thread on every one of them. Maybe I have always tended to have too much "check" in the check spring. I'll piddle with my Juki LU-1508 and let you know if I can acheive a "free" startup.
Which raises another question. Why are top load machines usually around $500 more than the bottom load versions? I'll probably die with my 1508. But if I came in tomorrow, and found that it was stolen, I'd replace it with a DNU-1541 (bottom load)
.
Having said all this, holding the thread at startup has become an involuntary reflex ith me, so it's really no big deal.
It is a royal PITA for me to grab the threads. Every year I lose more feeling and dexterity in my hands/fingers so trying to grab the thread is a pain. Same for my feet, the feeling seems to go away a little more every year which leaves me wondering how much longer I will be able to sew. I wear slippers to sew with so I can feel the treadle better.
I am like Dennis. I prefer the bottom loaders myself. The top loaders are workhorses and great machines but I am so used to the bottom feed's that the top feeds are a pain. I can change out a bobbin on a bottom feeder so quickly and all by feel. I have never had to raise the bed to change out a bobbin.
Speaking of bobbins, I am curious about something. Do all industrial machines allow you to change out the bobbin thread and keep going on a stitch run ? My Chandler has the capability of once the bobbin thread empties out you just slide a new bobbin in, back stitch once and then keep sewing. No need to feed the bobbin thread through.
Do all bottom thread machines work like this ? The Chandler is the first real industrial machine I have ever owned so do not know about other machines.
Chris
I'd be afraid of a single backstitch holding. Once the bobbin is out, I'd want to go at least 5 or 6 stitches back to continue sewing. On my Singers, I typically don't know the bobbin is out till 8 feet down the road >:( So backing up isn't an option - even if I DID have reverse. I'm good at listening for the empty-bobbin-rattle, but still can't gauge exactly when it's out.
June
Quote from: JuneC on July 28, 2012, 04:02:49 pm
I'd be afraid of a single backstitch holding. Once the bobbin is out, I'd want to go at least 5 or 6 stitches back to continue sewing. On my Singers, I typically don't know the bobbin is out till 8 feet down the road >:( So backing up isn't an option - even if I DID have reverse. I'm good at listening for the empty-bobbin-rattle, but still can't gauge exactly when it's out.
Ditto. Sometimes I've already delivered the sofa before I realize that the bobbin ran out 3 days ago. :D
BTW, can't wait to hear your feedback on the new Highlead.
Here's me adjusting the bobbin tension screw:
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi775.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy33%2Fsofadoc%2Fth_MOV00352.jpg&hash=ddc4f69e100553cc362c8b675f73d06d) (http://s775.photobucket.com/albums/yy33/sofadoc/?action=view¤t=MOV00352.mp4)
Do you guys oil around the bobbin like I did at the end? It may not be necessary, but I always have.
Yes, my top loader will start without wrapping and not holding.
I started sewing with the 111W155 when cotton was in vogue, it never wrapped the bobbin. Then, as synthetic thread came into play, I noticed it would not wrap every time and never if the thread was pushed to the back. IN that perspective, whatever was being sewn was laying on the thread if it was big.
Today at this moment my machine will start without holding using 69 or 92 thread. The machine is clean and all checks have been made.
One point made, perhaps my primer, about adjust thread tension; users will typically sew with too much tension which encourages wrapping and other problems with thread. In conclusion, if there is a problem in adjustment or needle size, a chance of wrapping is increased.
Also, "yes" to a drop of oil on the rotating bobbing (top loader) . That is probably beneficial with a bottom loader but where to put the drop of oil?
To Chris's comment regarding reloading a bobbin after run out; "yes", I can effectively do what you are doing with the bottom loader with any machine I have which includes the bottom, top, and the variant of the top. No problem.
I do find that when sewing a large canvas, the bottom loader is easier (My Juki long arm).
I am not partial to any, all are fine if they are kept clean and adjusted.
A side point, one issue often overlooked, immediately by me, is correct needle size. That should be checked obviously when thread size is changed but also material thickness.
I am with June on restarting after a bobbin run out, especially with synthetic threads, I am encouraged lap the sewing several stitches, more than two or three for sure. I have seen several stitches loosen at the end of a seam by flexing the material.
The good old days when we used cotton thread! Number 16 was strong stuff but I am not sure how well it would last in a boat cover? That was all we had, maybe the cotton was treated for marine?
Doyle
Just to clarify, I have never had a problem with thread wrapping. The only problem that I have (if I don't hold the top thread at startup) is that the top thread jumps out of the needle.
One good solution to holding the thread at start up that I have found, I take all my scraps and cut them up in little 2x2 squares and keep them in a box on the right side of my machine(all of them even the pfaff which I dont have to hold the thread for)and when I finish my seam I run off on the little pad, clip the thread from material being sewn and my machine is ready to go hands free to start the next seam or what ever. I know it sounds like a lot to do but I have found it saves me lots of time and lots of thread as well. You guys give it a try, I would like to hear your opinions!
I can't believe not one person has an opinion on the run off pads!
Rocketman,
Believe it. Sometimes it takes awhile for someone to comment on comments. I for one think it might not be a bad idea once you get the hang of it. Problem is many won't take the time to get the process down.
Quote from: RocketmanMH1 on August 01, 2012, 04:27:51 pm
I can't believe not one person has an opinion on the run off pads!
+1 on the runoff pads. If you are not in the habit of using them, you should be!
I remember my Grandmother having one huge run off pad instead of a bunch of little ones.
As soon as she sewed off the pad onto the fabric, she would cut it loose and have it ready to run off onto when she got to the end. The funny thing is, she had a Singer 16-188 which as I recall, didn't really require holding the thread on startup anyway.
I'm going to make a conscious effort to give it a try tomorrow. But as I said before, holding the thread at startup has become such an involuntary reflex with me, it's really not bothersome at all. I've never had a problem with thread wrap........ only the thread jumping out of the needle.
OK, I've tried it a few times this morning.
AND THE VERDICT IS: (drumroll, please)...................
Kinda like it at times. Sometimes it gets in the way a little when sewing something tedious, but other times I think I could get used to it. I've approved funding for a full clinical trial. :D
I kept catching myself holding onto the pad, just like I normally do with the thread.
I would think that might really be beneficial for someone like Chris, who says that the feeling in his fingertips ain't what it used to be.
Quote from: RocketmanMH1 on July 28, 2012, 07:14:15 pm
One good solution to holding the thread at start up that I have found, I take all my scraps and cut them up in little 2x2 squares and keep them in a box on the right side of my machine(all of them even the pfaff which I dont have to hold the thread for)and when I finish my seam I run off on the little pad, clip the thread from material being sewn and my machine is ready to go hands free to start the next seam or what ever. I know it sounds like a lot to do but I have found it saves me lots of time and lots of thread as well. You guys give it a try, I would like to hear your opinions!
I will give this a try, may cut down on the milliion scraps of thread all over my floor!
It's how stitchers in factories do it.
Quote from: RocketmanMH1 on July 28, 2012, 07:14:15 pm
One good solution to holding the thread at start up that I have found, I take all my scraps and cut them up in little 2x2 squares and keep them in a box on the right side of my machine(all of them even the pfaff which I dont have to hold the thread for)and when I finish my seam I run off on the little pad, clip the thread from material being sewn and my machine is ready to go hands free to start the next seam or what ever. I know it sounds like a lot to do but I have found it saves me lots of time and lots of thread as well. You guys give it a try, I would like to hear your opinions!
I will give it a try today. I like the idea of it saving thread. This dang Solarfix costs an arm and a leg. I think it would also cut down on the frustration level of my club fingers trying to grab thread.
Thanks for the idea.
Chris
I must say what a great idea!!
yes it may take some getting used to but the time it would save with less of a fuss to start up again sure would be nice .
It's amazing how what one persons trick can make us realize we never stop learning in this trade , no matter how many years we've been at it....hmmm goes to show., you can'' teach an old dog new tricks !!
I'll give it a try tomorrow !!
Quote from: timtheboatguy on August 02, 2012, 10:58:52 am
I will give this a try, may cut down on the milliion scraps of thread all over my floor!
HA HA Now you just have to pick up the one hundred thousand runoff pads. LOL
I'm going to give it a try also. If the threads aren't in the back of the walking foot I usually blow a puff of air at the foot and that sends the threads to the back where I can hold them down to begin sewing.
It will be interesting to see if using a fabric scrap is easier. I do occasionally have to re thread because I didn't have enough thread or was not holding it down long enough.
gene
Hey i like the idea of the run off pads and am gonna give it a swing. It's a similar thing to use run off tags in aluminium welding (no holes at end of job / burn through).
Mainly use a chinese copy Singer 20u semi industrial, has a table but small throat. If you don't hold threads on a new tack usually asking for it. Huge jams and headaches. Sew over pads should be real good. Thanking you, mate!!
Anyway the timing has been changed on the 20u to run a DP x 17 (walking foot) needle, size 16. [Gets knocked out of timing occasionaly and have to be careful to get the shuttle hook in the exact spot on the horizontal plane else the hook doesn't pick up the thread (V92) properly and shreds bad.] Sews zigzag 9mm wide through anything, real thick. Can post some pix of how the timing goes if anyone wants a gecko. Great for H16 sails, tramps, boat stuff, etc.
I hate always picking the snips or scissors up and down, and all the threads drama. It costs me hours in a full day.
Have a hands free auto Adler 267 ( pedal air foot lift, auto back tack, thread trim, auto thread hold), ground down walking foot for piping) it's such an immense joy to use for the straight line stuff, especially when patching up in repairs coz you just lift the job and go, no wasting time or thread, or jams or lost threads.. bang bang, job's out.
I also use a Singer 293 U3 for the lighter stuff and find it's so tedious now just mainly feed it through the walking foot machine. However it's really important to bang the fabric stuff through a 4 or 5 thread overlocker after sewing up the job and the short amount of time it takes is certainly well worth it for insurance peace of mind if the job goes pear shaped on ya and unravels itself ... Threading the dang loopers though is not always good for one's piece of mind .. and using black ..
About the best thing can share with you today is this trick i saw a lady doing when making splash cushions, that is, she joined all up the cushion bodys to a length of zip and banged it through the machine in one hit doing about 6 backtack stitches at the start and end of each particular cushion. Then a quick chop up, fit sliding zipper and sew on other side. Neat time saving trick. She was kind to share it, eh. And, she was the one that taught me to always pump the foot pedal when sewing too, kinda like blips on the throttle, and then after a while you could blast through the job and slow down a bit to stop exactly on the pivot point, lift your foot, to swing the job on a corner. Broom, broom, kinda cool .. well worth trying a test ride .. start slow and pick up the pace soon on the pedal, little blips first, revs up to flat out, then more little blips to slow down for corner .. control
Love the runoff pad idea, i have loss of fine motor skills in my hands, Don't even use my index fingers anymore, pick things up with my thumb and middle finger, so getting the thread up off the bed is tough for me, and very time consuming, the pad should make things a lot easier, right now I waste a lot of thread because to make things easier I pull about 10 inches out the back so I have something to grab!
Hey good JDP buddy suggest you price and try one of those computer driven thingys, bro you're gonna be blown away and one happy chappy! They're not to dear either. Hey big fella, been reading your recent posts, and, love your style and respect your class (mate you are tops), good luck and best regards.
"Think not on what you have lost but rather on what you have gained. For things lost are are easily accounted for and blessings counted multiply."
Think i'm gonna check the fridge for a beer, here's to you, and, cheers bud.
staggeringly good health ..
re the green boat interior it's time in your apprenticeship to learn some of the rat chaser / tufting needle .. can see middle cushion needs a prod or bit of some dacron bits to flop it out a bit ..
me, me, me, me - hey am i being paranoid here? what's that you say?
hey JD it goes without saying you'll need to modify the foot pedal on computer machine
single lock stitch computer machines cheap on Ebay, walking foot ones a bit more ..
its a multi throw reed switch device
switch back, lift foot
push down start sewing, until push back
switch back (push) back again, does back tack, trim thread, hold thread for next tack
foot back again lifts foot to remove job
stays here till next foot / switch back to lift foot to offer up to next job
suggest chat with keystone gregg or miami mike ..
so you'll need to mod the footswitch for hand operated work
being a pain in the ass as ya need two hands on the job often
looks like you'll need to make something for an elbow drive maybe
think laterally; some Moto GP riders have had their footsies chopped down a bit
one of them was a world champ and had the rear brake pedal fitted to handlebar switch somehow
me very sorry to hijack the thread ladies and gents ..
and going back to the pink spots and brewskies now ..
Quote from: needles eye on August 13, 2012, 07:36:19 am
Think i'm gonna check the fridge for a beer, here's to you, and, cheers bud.
I feel like a Tooheys, I feel like a Tooheys, I feel like a Tooheys or two. :)
Chris