Backup Bobbin cases

[Mojo]

I was just curious if any of you operate with backup bobbin cases.

I sew with two different thread types and sizes - Solarfix 2000 and Sunguard 138. I just started using two bobbin cases to alleviate the need to constantly adjust my bobbin tension when switching between different thread.

I have a bobbin case for the Solarfix and one for the 138 Poly and I keep the one I am not using in a bag in a drawer. All I do is switch the bobbin case when I switch thread. It has worked perfectly for me and I typically only have to make a slight adjustment on the upper tension.

Do you use multiple bobbin cases like this or do you adjust the tension each time you switch thread ?

Chris

[baileyuph]

If I understand what you are saying Chris, that would be an efficient idea for a bottom loader.  But, on a top loader, if I have the technical understanding correctly, it might not be as practical for the top loading bobbin.

Sure makes sense to pop in the new case with bobbin instead of going through the back and forth adjustments just to change thread size.  That is a merit of a bottom loader, seems to me anyway.

I don't suggest it is cost effective in a one machine set up but in a shop with multiple machine shop, well you know the answer, set one machine up for a thread and another for the other thread.  That way the threading and top adjustment requirement is at least minimized.

Good idea Chris,  what does the extra bobbin case cost?  I haven't bought any lately?

Doyle

[Mike]

I have top loaders but honestly ive not had a pronlem switching from v92 sunguard to tenara 92
So no.
I s ne er used a bottom loAder. Wouldnt it be s bit more difficult to change the bobbin. Dont you have to raisr the mChine and hole it while opening the bobbin and  hanging the spool all while holding the machine up?

[sofadoc]

We had someone else here who does that. I think it may have been Stitcher.
I don't change thread size all that often, but I've always felt comfortable making any final tension adjustmets with the top tension alone.  But separate bobbin cases certainly can't hurt.

On a top loader, if you rotate the bobbin case just right, and have the right little screwdriver, you can adjust the bobbin tension with out removing it. Like Doyle says, separate bobbin cases on a top load machine wouldn't be efficient.

[Mojo]

I should have been a bit more clear, yes this is my bottom loading Chandler I am talking about.

You can pick up new bobbin cases for around $ 15 - 20. It saves me time not having to screw around setting the bottom tension when going from the Solarfix to 138 poly.

Of course I cannot do this on my top loading Juki.

Chris

[sofadoc]

I s ne er used a bottom loAder. Wouldnt it be s bit more difficult to change the bobbin. Dont you have to raisr the mChine and hole it while opening the bobbin and  hanging the spool all while holding the machine up?

No, you don't have to raise the head up. Once you get used to it, you can "blindly" run your hand underneath, and change the bobbin case from the bottom. I've seen a few that raise the head because their drip pan isn't cut out properly.

[MinUph]

  That is a good idea Chris,
  Never saw the need for it but if you have to adjust often it should be helpful. One thing I don't understand in this thread (no pun intended) is a top loader being different. My Pfaff was a top load bobbin and it had an adjusting screw same as my side load Consew. Are the ones talked about here the type you just drop a bobbin in the top? No bobbin case?

[sofadoc]

Yeah, the Pfaff top load has the removable bobbin case. But with all the Singer compatible top load machines, you would have to either rotate the hand wheel to access the tension adjustment screw, or remove the 3 little screws and retaining bar that keeps the bobbin case in the hook chamber.

But for me, if I switch threads, I'm able to make any necessary tension adjustments with the top tension discs. But I can see where it would help you guys that make more drastic thread changes.

[Mojo]

Paul:

Dennis is correct. On my Juki 563 the bobbin just drops in the top. There is no case.

It is the first top load machine I have ever used and I prefer the bottom load machines myself.
You typically have to be very vigilant on holding and pulling the threads when starting a new stitch run.

On my Chandler it could care less. I let the threads lay loose and start a stitch run and it will sew without jamming. I finally had to get into the habit of holding the thread when I got the Juki. It is a bit more persnickety on stitch run starts and will jam.

Chris

[baileyuph]

Paul is right, Pfaff is a more or less third concept or at least different as a top loader.  It is probably fair, in a simple sense, to simply call the Pfaff a cap with a gension spring and it does work very well.  Probably as well as any other engineering.

Chris, I agree that on start up, the bottom loader is more forgiving.  I have sewn on some that it is almost a must to hold the thread and what got me to thinking, some top loaders did not require thread restraint.  That said, this isn't theoretical, but I have learned pragmatically that my top loader can be started without holding given:  The thread tension is absolutely adjusted evenly and not too tight (tension).  The take up spring is calibrated, there is no wear in the thread path and the bobbin pull back lever is adjusted to specifications.  When going through all these adjustments, my test for correctness among these parameters is when sewing can commence without holding thread.

A point, sometimes when thread bunches on startup, I have found operator error (for example the knee was leaning on the lift), the needle size for the thread is not correct, or there is dirt or something a foul in the thread path. 

Again, the bottom loader might be more for giving on this "wrapping" issue (thread wrapping around the case).  That would make a very interesting topic of discussion from literally machine engineers.  I have asked mechanics about it and most say it involves the machine from head to toe being in tune, I believe them.  They, the mechanics, stressed no burrs on anything in the bobbin case, the pull back lever adjustment, cleanliness of the entire bobbin area even the center needle and bobbin covers.  One mechanics emphasized checking the covers for bends.  He said just dropping the feet down on the cover, over time can bend the covers.  Another parameter, with respect to "wrapping", is the thread.  Synthetic threads are harder on a machine than cotton or some other natural content, hence can facilitate bobbin wrapping.


Sometimes, I get the thought that these machines are just about as complex as auto engines.  Some have suggested they are more complex.   

I have all three discussed here.  The top, the bottom, and more than one Pfaff.  I like all of them when they are in good condition and adjusted properly.

You know, all said, I never met many machines I didn't like, especially when they were in good operating order.  To achieve a lock stitch that is good, it doesn't require a new machine, it requires a good machine with specification.  Hip pocket mechanic talking here, definitely not a Bob Kovar type or any mechanic who makes his living working on these machines.  BTW, they can be worth their weight in a precious metal, if they know what they are doing.

All said, which can lead to a logical question; is there a preferred primer on any of these machines.  The Pfaff in particular, Greg sent me some page copies from his library that have been extremely helpful.  Those Germans are so thorough.  I do have a small primer for the Singer technology, it is really good!

Doyle

[sofadoc]

I have sewn on some that it is almost a must to hold the thread and what got me to thinking, some top loaders did not require thread restraint.  That said, this isn't theoretical, but I have learned pragmatically that my top loader can be started without holding given:  The thread tension is absolutely adjusted evenly and not too tight (tension).  The take up spring is calibrated, there is no wear in the thread path and the bobbin pull back lever is adjusted to specifications.  When going through all these adjustments, my test for correctness among these parameters is when sewing can commence without holding thread.

So you're saying that if everything is perfectly adjusted, holding the thread on startup isn't necessary (for top loaders). If that's the case, then I have never had a perfectly adjusted machine.

Over the years, as shops closed, I've acquired (and quickly sold) more than a dozen top load machines. Singer, Pfaff, Juki, and Consew. And a few off-brands. I had to hold the thread on every one of them. Maybe I have always tended to have too much "check" in the check spring. I'll piddle with my Juki LU-1508 and let you know if I can acheive a "free" startup.

Which raises another question. Why are top load machines usually around $500 more than the bottom load versions? I'll probably die with my 1508. But if I came in tomorrow, and found that it was stolen, I'd replace it with a DNU-1541 (bottom load)
.
Having said all this, holding the thread at startup has become an involuntary reflex ith me, so it's really no big deal.

[Mojo]

It is a royal PITA for me to grab the threads. Every year I lose more feeling and dexterity in my hands/fingers so trying to grab the thread is a pain. Same for my feet, the feeling seems to go away a little more every year which leaves me wondering how much longer I will be able to sew. I wear slippers to sew with so I can feel the treadle better.

I am like Dennis. I prefer the bottom loaders myself. The top loaders are workhorses and great machines but I am so used to the bottom feed's that the top feeds are a pain. I can change out a bobbin on a bottom feeder so quickly and all by feel. I have never had to raise the bed to change out a bobbin.

Speaking of bobbins, I am curious about something. Do all industrial machines allow you to change out the bobbin thread and keep going on a stitch run ? My Chandler has the capability of once the bobbin thread empties out you just slide a new bobbin in, back stitch once and then keep sewing. No need to feed the bobbin thread through.

Do all bottom thread machines work like this ? The Chandler is the first real industrial machine I have ever owned so do not know about other machines.

Chris

[JuneC]

I'd be afraid of a single backstitch holding.  Once the bobbin is out, I'd want to go at least 5 or 6 stitches back to continue sewing.  On my Singers, I typically don't know the bobbin is out till 8 feet down the road  >:(  So backing up isn't an option - even if I DID have reverse.  I'm good at listening for the empty-bobbin-rattle, but still can't gauge exactly when it's out. 

June

[sofadoc]

I'd be afraid of a single backstitch holding.  Once the bobbin is out, I'd want to go at least 5 or 6 stitches back to continue sewing.  On my Singers, I typically don't know the bobbin is out till 8 feet down the road  >:(  So backing up isn't an option - even if I DID have reverse.  I'm good at listening for the empty-bobbin-rattle, but still can't gauge exactly when it's out.

Ditto. Sometimes I've already delivered the sofa before I realize that the bobbin ran out 3 days ago. :D

BTW, can't wait to hear your feedback on the new Highlead.

Here's me adjusting the bobbin tension screw:


Do you guys oil around the bobbin like I did at the end? It may not be necessary, but I always have.

[baileyuph]

Yes, my top loader will start without wrapping and not holding.  

I started sewing with the 111W155 when cotton was in vogue, it never wrapped the bobbin. Then, as synthetic thread came into play, I noticed it would not wrap every time and never if the thread was pushed to the back. IN that perspective, whatever was being sewn was laying on the thread if it was big.

Today at this moment my machine will start without holding using 69 or 92 thread. The machine is clean and all checks have been made.

One point made, perhaps my primer, about adjust thread tension; users will typically sew with too much tension which encourages wrapping and other problems with thread.  In conclusion, if there is a problem in adjustment or needle size, a chance of wrapping is increased.

Also, "yes" to a drop of oil on the rotating bobbing (top loader) . That is probably beneficial with a bottom loader but where to put the drop of oil?

To Chris's comment regarding reloading a bobbin after run out;  "yes", I can effectively do what you are doing with the bottom loader with any machine I have which includes the bottom, top, and the variant of the top. No problem.

I do find that when sewing a large canvas, the bottom loader is easier (My Juki long arm).

I am not partial to any, all are fine if they are kept clean and adjusted.

A side point, one issue often overlooked, immediately by me, is correct needle size. That should be checked obviously when thread size is changed but also material thickness.  

I am with June on restarting after a bobbin run out, especially with synthetic threads, I am encouraged lap the sewing several stitches, more than two or three for sure.  I have seen several stitches loosen at the end of a seam by flexing the material.

The good old days when we used cotton thread! Number 16 was strong stuff but I am not sure how well it would last in a boat cover?  That was all we had, maybe the cotton was treated for marine?

Doyle