Remaking Canvas

[Kathy0701]

Hello Friends,

First off, thanks for all the information you share.  I don't post on here often, but I read a LOT.

I'm relatively new to this (2-1/2 years) and, so far, have had pretty much straight forward projects - nothing too far out there, although I love the challenge of finding solutions to problems.  This one, though, has me scratching my head.
Customer's boat sunk & was scrapped.  He saved his canvas & wants me to use those pieces to make a new enclosure for a smaller (21' Cruisers) boat.  I'm working on an estimate now.  Here are the facts:

- sunk boat's top is SeaMark.  I should be able to work around the hole/cracks in it, and could probably make a bimini out of it.

- side curtains - cutting these off & making them fit - I guess this can be done.  How easily is anybody's guess.

- camper top & rear enclosure panels - he has none from his sunken boat - would all have to be new

Aft Curtain - the one from the sunken boat is all oil-stained...has a patch about 4' in diameter that is black.  I can't reuse this. 

Now here is where it gets ugly (to me, anyway)

He's got a big chunk of wood mounted at the stern that goes all the way across the transom,  with big fishing rod holder things on it (sorry, not a fisherwoman).  He wants me to drill holes in front of this & mount the aft curtain to the flat part of the transom in front of this board.  My questions are a) can it be done? and b) how do I get th aft curtain to not want to pop off? c) how do I estimate labor?  seems to me it's going to take 1-1/2 times as long to re-do as to start from scratch...does this sound right? d) Would any of you do this? (windows are old and yellowed, canvas seems OK...doesn't want new window glass though)...I think when it's done it's going to look like crap and I'm thinking I wouldn't want people to know I did it.

This whole job is giving me the creeps.  I have plenty of work coming in.  It's not like I don't want to help the guy out, but I don't see where he's going to save much by trying to reuse these pieces. 

He wants me to take off all the old zippers & reuse them, but I am going to tell him if he wants to reuse them, he needs to remove them himself.

I value your opinions.  My gut tells me to run the other way, although the "I like a challenge" part of my psyche thinks I could do this.

Thank you for your help!

Kathy

[jojo]

Holy crap! I wouldn't touch that job with a 10 foot pole.  Seems like it would be less labor intensive(and therefore cheaper) to start from scratch.
Reusing zippers on marine canvas?? Really????

[Kathy0701]

That's what I was thinking...

Also, and I know this should be the least of my worries - the smaller boat is a creamy yellow & the canvas is blue tweed.  Sorry, it is going to look awful.

I think, when he sees the cost, he will not do it. 

What about having canvas meet the deck on a horizontal plane?  Why does this bother me?  I suppose I could put some extreme welt under there & hope for the best, but I don't like the idea at all.  Am I too much of a purist?

[Grebo]

I had one guy that I made 3/4 of a cockpit enclosure to hang from his bimini in soltis, he then changed the boat & wanted me to make it fit the new one, ok all the material was virtually new so not so bad but still a PITA, I gave him a guesstimate & he paid up.
Talk him out of reusing this stuff as you said it's just not worth it.
Can you get a photo of where he wants you to fit to ?

Suzi

[RandyOnR3]

  Being a local canvas shop in the marina, I get people all the time that want to use the older material to build something.. I give it to them streight.......
 your cost for me to RE-make the old project will be twice of what the new will cost, and we dont, use old zippers, so by the time you spend the money to to re-cut and new zippers, you could buy a new top custom fit for the project..
  something else you want to think of..... and this is the work of doing a job like that.. when it comes from your shop, it has your name on it, if it looks good, it has your name on it, and if it looks BAD, IT ALSO HAS YOUR NAME ON IT........
  around here, we refuse to use any sub- standard material, including glass.. we install nothing but "strada-glass" and only sunbrella or equally quality material.. and you ask why,  Its because when the job is finished, someone will ask him who did his work and he'll mention your name..
  Next thing you know, someone is saying, "did you you see the crap job that Kathy did on that boat...
you cant afford that type of rep, no matter how good you are......
  and always remember, if its good, 5 people will find out about it but if its bad, 500 will know.. bad news travels....................................

[regalman190]

Way too much time and effort. And it won't fit right. Make it from scratch. The cost will be much less.

[bobbin]

Over the years I've learned there are two kinds of boaters. 
1.)  those who can afford a boat.
2.)  those who can't.  (but think they can nickel and dime their way into group #1)

Reusing canvas and notions is no savings.  What costs more, the fabric and notions or your labor to screw around and enact their hare-brained notion of "saving"?

Run for your life, girlfriend!  That fool will never be satisfied with all your hard work anyway. 20+ yrs. in the trade has refined my BS detection skills to a razor's edge. 

[fragged8]

run away very fast, thats the kind of job that can ruin a guys reputation
that was hard won.

Rich

[Mike8560]

I agree with the rest I'd poliy tell him the time to try and save anything and makenit fit would beonger then starting with new stuff   Just won't be a nice job and you don't want your name on it.

[DBR1957]

No way I would do it. He's actually wasting money. It will cost him more in labor
for you to work around, take apart his old stuff than to get new material. Then
he will still have old canvas which may or may not last a while.

Add up what it will take you in labor to salvage his old stuff and compare it to the
cost of new material and show him the comparison. If he insists on using the old
tops recommend another shop.

Why is it people still think the bulk of the cost of canvas is in the fabric?

[Kathy0701]

Thanks, everyone!  You've convinced me not to try this!  I'm going to explain these things to him & finish my estimate on new canvas.

Here's the problem I am having with the aft end...hope this picture comes out OK.  He wants me to put studs on the deck in front of this boardfull of fishing junk.  I don't want to, but I don't see any way to get it over/around all those obstacles on the transom to use the snaps on the back.  Ideas would be most welcome!!!

[Kathy0701]

I think he should take all that stuff off the back.  Isn't there a point where you just can't put canvas on it, or am I showing my "noob"-ness?

[jsquail]

I think he should take all that stuff off the back.  Isn't there a point where you just can't put canvas on it, or am I showing my "noob"-ness?

I fish. All that stuff on the back of his boat is a Charlie Foxtrot. Looks like a cold weather lake fisher to me.


Snaps prolly wont hold. At a minimum you would need turn fasteners. However, they could be hazardous depending on the mount location. Is it possible to mount the fasteners under the board? So, is the board permanently attached?

Attach webbing to the bottom side of the board and use D-Rings on the curtains?

the more i think about it the more i come to the conclusion no no no no no no no no..........

[Mike8560]

He's got over 4k of bigjon ecric downriggers there they sreeasily removable most people
take the
off when not using and store them inside   
You could install a awning rail with a zipper maybe to make it easy if be I insists

[JuneC]

I'm with Mike and Jsquail on the fishing gear.  I'm quite surprised he'd want that area exposed.  That's expensive stuff to leave out in the weather.  And snaps will definitely not hold on the front of that board. 

If it were my own boat, what I'd try to do is build a cover that is elevated across the transom to cover the gear.  I can't tell from the pic how high it would need to be - maybe 18 inches?  You'd still get water runoff with the angle from the back edge of the bimini.  I'd put is some short tent poles that sat on the ends of the transom (they can be cut to any length easily with a hack saw). 

You'd need snap studs on the ends of the poles and snap sockets in the canvas.  They do sell tent poles with snaps in case you've never seen them.  You could then fasten the canvas to the transom behind the gear with with either snaps or turnbuckles.  Risky project - my idea might not work at all if the canvas flaps and the base of the poles become unseated ... unless you somehow create a socket on the board.  Maybe a railing stanchion to hold the pole securely at the base?

June