collapsing frame

[fragged8]

hiya

I had a customer ask me to make a standard type convertible top with a 7/8" dia 3 bow frame
attached to a radar arch but 8" lower than the current one to clear bridges.

I took a look and told him he would be stooping all the time if i did what he asked.

Is there a way to collapse the frame with the cover in place so he could get under a
bridge and then pop it up again after he has passed under the bridge. the guy is in his
60's and wants an easy way rather than taking the whole cover and frame down.

One thought was to mount the frame fixing point on a slide so you could slide the main
bow forward to reduce the height, the problem i can see doing this is as you slide the main bow forward
the forward facing secondary bow will get longer so the front screen would have to come out.


anyone got any ideas ??

rich

[Peppy]

You could do what you say, then do this to the front bar's jawslide.



That has the set screw drilled out for a spring button.



Or you could make him a new top ;)

[DBR1957]

What year, make and model of boat? Main mounts on top of windshield or inside? how high is the arch? The top can remain as high as the arch. Maybe the best way is to flip the frame around and make a bimini with the arch acting as the fourth bow. This would eliminate the typical slant of the convertible over the helm area providing more headroom.

If this is going to be a convertible always attached to the arch on one end and the windshield on the other, you have to take safety into account. Dropping the frame so he can go under a bridge is going to make all the canvas loose and droopy affecting his visibility and ability to pilot the boat safely. You have to consider his safety and your liability if something goes wrong.

Sometimes you just have to tell the customer you don't feel comfortable doing what they want. I've had to do it and found the customer appreciated my concern.

[Mike8560]

I had a. Customer with a 33  or so searay with an arch. The top  ame foarward and aft off the arch  he had the fiberglass arch made tonhydroliclt fold forward to clear bridges.
The tops are semi permanate and he would leave them on and the front windows ans side windows the back just had a  back curtian
the came off he would fold the arch forward with the top and windows in place not somthing good for them but he did.    Me I'd just make him a top tall enough to clear the bridge.  Arch hight ? May taller if I could have clearance.

[fragged8]

the air height under the bridge is a little over 8 feet and the radar arch has been cut to allow
it to tip backwards. Peppy might have something there with a jaw slide on the front bow if i mount the
main bow on a track slide .

If i get the job I will be making a new top too so I want to get it right.

[JuneC]

I think I'd do slides with struts.  The push buttons I find to be trouble prone (buttons go missing inside the tubes).  But that setup Peppy shows looks different from anything I've seen.  Peppy, where do you get those buttons and jaw slides?  Or do you grind out the holes yourself? 

June

[Peppy]

It's a beaut! It might look a little better after running it into a bridge! I love replacing canvas like this. I'm absolutely certain that can make one with less wrinkles. Front window looks nice though.

If he's looking for a magical pin to shrink it by 8" I'd say he's out of luck. You'll be able to make it shrink but I think any method you come up with will involve a bit of work to 'convert'. And at least 4 hands. Like what do you do about the tension bars? The back ones that connect to the arch could be moved maybe, and I guess you could maybe get these to work on the front bars

http://www.geminiproducts.net/gemlock-assembled-struts/

But it'll be a matter of loosen this, unpin that, move this up, press this button.....Why doesn't he just take down his top?

But that setup Peppy shows looks different from anything I've seen.  Peppy, where do you get those buttons and jaw slides?  Or do you grind out the holes yourself? 

It's my own invention. The buttons come from J. Ennis I think.  I drill out an ordinary jaw slide then counter sink it a bit with a 1/2" bit. Works with nylon too. We do it on all our 'shwang out' camperbacks. We used to do it with a thumb screw, but people would lose it or put it back in the wrong spot. With the button, it's a 'tool-less' adjustor that won't drop in the lake (well, the fat fingered may need a bottle cap...). I haven't had much trouble losing them in the tube, maybe you need to drill a bigger hole? I have pushed them in past the hole before but you can keep pushing with a piece of wire and get it out the other end. My biggest peeve about them is trying to pop the button when it's under tension.

[Mike8560]

I've swanved with the thumbscrew also I like rhe buttons sea Ray uses them a d it's easy to tention the tops  just pull down with 2 hands and pop Bo pulli g with 1 hand and tryi g to hook a strap with the other would be good if your one handed too

[DBR1957]

Most important question. What is his budget? I've got some ideas but his old frame becomes scrap. Everything from ground up. Might even include the Makefast hydraulic automatic bimini mounts.

http://www.makefast.com/acatalog/POWERED_CANOPY_BIMINI_UNITS.html

http://www.makefast.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_MAKEFAST_SLEEK_TRACK_SYSTEM_142.html#a3380

[fragged8]

y, buttons i like Peppy. Anything to take the tinker out of the equation.

i did think slides on the main bow and maybe a joint in the forward seconary
like this ?


the stays wont be a problem as they are on quick pins so easily removed.

And you're right , why not just drop the cover but if thats what the customer wants
then I'd like to help if i can. Nobody else will touch a job like this around here so I can
either make or break my business heheh..

As we say '  Self employed, self destroyed'  heheh

thanks for the links DBR something to consider but the budget won't
stretch to a powered unit .. pity.

where are you based ? you've posted Uk links. ?  im in Norfolk UK
BTW i think Makefast are expensive do you buy from them ?

Rich

[Peppy]

So judging by the clasp on the radar arch, he's gotta drop the whole arch right, and not just 8"? How does he do that with his current setup? He must have to unsnap the canvas from the arch, no?

Maybe the best way is to flip the frame around and make a bimini with the arch acting as the fourth bow.

I made a top like that on a Larson a couple of years ago. I really liked how it turned out. Then the arch sort of becomes the window on a normal top. Carries the tension really well and you can raise the 'front' bars on their straps to make up for any 'wonk' in the radar arch. I really want to do it more often but nobody lets me.

That'd be good though; undo the front windows and the pins in the front tension bars and the whole shebang folds back with the arch.

Otherwise it's; 2 thumbscrews on the slides, two buttons on the front bar, and 4 pins. Or he takes his top down like he does already.

This

and this
http://www.geminiproducts.net/gemlock-assembled-struts/
are the same thing ;)
I could be wrong, but I think they work better as a 'compression' bar as opposed to a tension bar

[Mike8560]

That'd be good though; undo the front windows and the pins in the front tension bars and the whole shebang folds back with the arch.
and this
http://www.geminiproducts.net/gemlock-assembled-struts/
are the same thing ;)
I could be wrong, but I think they work better as a 'compression' bar as opposed to a tension bar

as i said i had a customer whos sundancer the arch folded hydrulicly forward as did the slant and it layed down to go under a bridge he didnt even have to unspnap the front or side windows he said i never seen him do it and it played hell on the windows wrinkling them.

thoose gemini parts tri vantage has a hindge called a rail hinfge that i fits a rail and hindges there is a pin to lock it straight i use them for spreader bar allot easier to install then a gemini