Folders, Binders & Gadgets

[Mojo]

I am starting this thread because I didn't want to hijack Doyle's post on using folders for welt cord.

I am curious to know do most of you use folders when sewing something that needs to be folded over ? Has anyone ever used the double folders ?

I have a set of folders and cannot get the hang of feeding the material into it and it staying put.

Also I have talked about the Japanese made binder before that I got from Sailrite for $ 69.00 Just so happens they have a video showing it in use. This model fold away binder is the swing away and not a stationary version. The one I use is identical to the one in the  video. It is a fold away and that feature is worth its weight in gold.

Here is the video -

I can attest to the fact that the Sussei binder is very high quality. It is built much better and heavier then other models I have seen.

So do any of you use these folders ? ( I have this set and the quality is OK, nothing to write
home about. )

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/INDST-SEWING-MACHINE-5-FOLDER-SET-1-2-INCH-FOLD-C-/290540090696?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a589f548]

I can attest to the fact that the Sussei binder is very high quality. It is built much better and heavier then other models I have seen.

So do any of you use these folders ? ( I have this set and the quality is OK, nothing to write
home about. )

http://cgi.ebay.com/INDST-SEWING-MACHINE-5-FOLDER-SET-1-2-INCH-FOLD-C-/290540090696?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a589f548

Chris

[sofadoc]

There are "attachments", and there "custom attachments". I've never gotten full benefit from any generic attachment. Like those "As seen on TV" products, they don't work that well when you get "em home.
I talked recently with Gregg over the phone about a binder for doing an RV  customer's stuff. After talking to him, I realized that I would need several different binders, depending on the type,thickness,etc.
I don't do enough of that type of work to justify spending over $300 a pop on multiple custom binders.

[baileyuph]

Binders and folders do work, this is older technology, but good technology which has been proven to work by manufacturers years ago.

Most of us seem to be in a custom environment and use our machines for eveything that come into the door.  Manufacturers approach is much different, they dedicate the right machine with the right attachment to a task and do the job right, technically speaking quality not always with standing.

That set up is usually supported by highly qualified machine mechanics who can almost literally build the attachments in their machine shop capability.  But, all this doesn't come cheap, it is not something that normally can be bought off the shelf and just place it on a machine and see it  work professionally in an efficient manner.  Instead price gets in the way and the result is generally what we experience when approaching a work station set up the way we do.  It is a logical outcome however, because small custom does not do the volume to justify a setup like factories usually present.

If we all look at the auto carpets in out older cars that had single fold bound edges, we will usually see perfect work if it came from a factory.  But, even back then that capability wasn't just something hooked to a machine or on a swing away.  Further it wasn't something that could be purchased for just a few hundred dollars back then.  Those machine guys  would keep working with the binders, the feed, the feed dogs, and tweaking things in the machine shops until they got it right.  Then the set up became a dedicated work station that made the factories good money. 

All that said, I tend to think that there can be some success with attachments, but we will have to be willing to pay for it. I, like many, have a few folders that were in the cheaper range, but they just don't do a terrific job.  I feel that the high dollar engineer is needed to look at the situation and make it work. 

Back in the days when our little factories were running strong, engineers    evaluated everything in a process requirement and got it right.  Including the right machine. It was engineering from the bottom all the way to the top including every attachment. 

In a way working in a well engineered factory would be the place to get another education on equipments.  I would anyway because I like equipment.

There is a business with this type of engineering support, called Tennessee Attachements and another, a bigger one, in California, back when the economy was churning anyway.  Today, don't really know, maybe someone has current information.  I was fortunate to read about them some few years ago.  Very impressive!

Setting the hook timing is very important but after that, schooling isn't over if one wishes to get into the deeper stuff of this industry.  Further, the industry really has gotten more complex with the adaptation of the computer to all this anology good stuff.  Industrial embroidery machines as a starter, just to be able to use one is a trip.

Hmmm, must have gotten carried away.

Doyle

[Mojo]

I use nothing but double edge 1 inch binding. I have done my solar screens without a binder and with it. I would have to estimate that it doubled or tripled my production time using the binder and the quality of the product is much better.

The swing away Sussei binder has been an awesome addition to my shop. I never want to go back to hand folding again. :) In regards to the custom binders that are $ 300 there is no frigging way I would spend that much. I don't care if it is built for my machine or not. The $ 69 model works perfect for me and the swing away feature is awesome because you can go in reverse for a back stitch. It also helps to be able to adjust the binder in all directions.

The folders I bought have been a disappointment. I have one folder that is heavy and appears to be very well made. I just cannot get the material to fold. I can fold faster by hand as I am feeding it through the machine.

I wished I could see a video of how these folders are setup and used. Maybe then I could get mine to work. :)

So my question is does anyone use folders ? If so then how do you get them to work ?

Chris

[SteveMoke]

Yes I use a 10mm Sussei swing out the way folder and have found it to be a little gem, just screwed it into place and had a bag of scrap vinyl that I used to set it up/practice with. Best way I have found is to have enough slack material in my lap as I feed it into the folder so it's not 'pulling' back out of the folder. Just about to order another at 15mm. I also have a couple of double fold binders at 3/4" and 1-1/4".

[Mike8560]

i forgot what make mine are I  got them years ago trivantage and any dist has them there the cheap generac folders for binding douvle fold. ive got 3/4" that i use the most cause most marine canvas had 3/4"  if i have to match existing canvas it will ive also got 1"  also but i dont use much 1" they bolt onto my top plate over my top load bobbing i just slip them onn and replace a different plate when not using.

i order one of theese fancy swing away bingders but i cant get the hang of it how the binding goes in folding in reverse then somehow fols the right way. ther seems to be allot of drag with this i dont use it and id have to go look for it to find it i think i paid about $300 years ago
http://www.marinecanvastraining.com/images/stories/toolsofthetrade/websitebinder2.JPG

[bobbin]

My time spent in the rag biz was a fabulous exposure to attachments, their use, and to machinery in general.  I am a machine junkie and I particularly like fiddling around with them and using them for different purposes.  I have a slew of different presser feet, but many of them don't work as effectively with my needle feed Juki as they did on my old Singer 31-15. 

I have an assortment of scroll hemmers for an old W&G rotary take up machine and I agree that getting the hang of feeding the goods into it and getting the uniform double fold started can be tricky; esp. when you're down to the dainty 1/8" model and trying to work with a true bias (think hems on gowns or edgeing on lingerie).  The best technique I've found is to feed the goods into the machine and out the back before you start stitching as this gives the machine some "traction" and keeps the goods from become "roped", bumpy along the fold.  It takes some patience and some practice and until you've been successful a few times in a row it's not the sort of thing you can put on your machine in a few weeks' time and expect to work like a charm immediately. 

I love my swing away binder, but find the stitching to be a tad too close to the edges for my taste and I'm unable to adjust the folder more the left to place the stitching where I'd really like to see it.  I'm still working with it, but know if I need to have it modified Gregg will be on it like white on rice.  When I started at my present job we were expected to hold the folder in one hand and guide the fabric through it with the other.  I was appalled at the abject stupidity of such a thing and said so, the only thing dumber is trying to free hand binding applications because you're too cheap to buy a folder.  Sorry!  binding should be a fast and easy operation.   In a typical garment factory running the binder is a entry level position for a new stitcher... . 

[Mojo]

Bobbin:

Thanks for the reply. I guess what I need to do is sit down at the machine and start playing more with the folders on scrap material. I got damn frustrated the first few times I did it and because I had a rush job had to just do everything by hand.

I do not know what kind of swing away binder you have but my $ 69 Sussei is fully adjustable. I can adjust the stitch anywhere I want on the binding, adjust the binder forward, backwards and sideways.

As I said before, Sailrite carries the Sussei binder. You may want to consider buying one from them.

Thanks again for your reply.

Chris

[Gregg @ Keystone Sewing]

i forgot what make mine are I  got them years ago trivantage and any dist has them there the cheap generac folders for binding douvle fold.

I don't want to say right or wrong, but normally we would mount that binder stright, or so that the slot in the mount plate is stright from side, aligned with the bed of the machine.

We normally use two screws, not one.  In your case, this involves drilling and tapping screws in the the slide plate.

[Mike8560]

ya id have to take a look greg it probly doese have 2 csrews but i belive i probly took one out . i like my binder at that angle that way i have more room for when i have to binf things like te top of a window that has a smiley zipper #10 coil i run the coil right up to the top and bind it at the top with  the top edge of hte window. smtime i have to bind across binding also make like a x of biding this way i have to trouble with room.