Collecting work time statistics

[baileyuph]

I just finished a T-cushion for a channel back chair, 50's vintage probably. Curved back, double edge cording and traditional zipper in a solid weave.

This job required making a pattern as there wasn't one sufficiently accurate available from previous covering.  Further, my technique; cording was cut on bias (preliminary analysis of fabric drove this idea), and cushion seaming was two step, cord to facings and then boxing attached, to finish up.  New foam was cut and installed using the pattern initially made for the fabric facing.  Lastly, during the process focus was on pattern and sewing accuracy.  Measuring the boxing height anywhere would reveal the exactness of this effort.

That said, after working steady through this project, I noted it took almost 2 hrs, 1hr 55 minutes to be exact.  That result got me to wondering if I was within the standard?

So, I thought it would be interesting to find out, let's do this:

Post your time, then I will compute the average and standard deviation.  Also explain your technique because it might provide meaning of your time.  There are no right or wrong answers, remember I am only trying to develop some kind of standard expectation.  Being in business, time is always of essence, for example, I wish I could have done that job in one hour.   ;)

Hopefully we won't get mired in discussion in the right or wrong way of doing things, just give your time, general description, and anything that you feel influences that time to take less or more.

Then, After input (more the better for a meaningful statistic), a standard can be computed.  It could be a fun exercise.

As I said, my time:  2 hrs.

Doyle

[Cheryl]

2 hrs is a good time in my opinion for start to finish for the work involved.  I'd probably be more like 2.5 - 3.. because I would be considering  my choices of foam/dacron  combos for a good half hour.. oh -- and the fabric plays a huge part as well..  some are a dream .. some bite.   

So thats for..  making a pattern,  choosing the  cushion type,  configuring the fill, building the fill,  cutting and sewing muslin cover, cutting the fabric.. sewing the cover, installing the fill.  And all the problems that crop  up during the procedure..  Which hopefully were  address during the test stitching of the fabric..  does it stretch too much.. does it slip??  is there a stripe match??

I'm tired  now Doyle..  sheesh  .. coffee break! ;)

[Rich]

Doyle, I document just about everything I do and certainly if it's for the first time with expectations of doing it again some time in the future.
You should not expect to do a T cushion from scratch in one hour. Two hours is much closer to the standard and so I'd say you were right where you should be with that one. The MFA standards manual has a section on cushions for boats which lists a rectangular cushion which would be used on many other applications and they say 1.5 hours for something like an 18"x36" cushion. I'm pretty sure I can beat that, but I think it's a good standard time. I will look over my times when I'm back at the shop next week and post what I have.
Now, when it comes to pricing, what to charge would depend on the hourly charge for any given shop. I know there are those who are still charging $25/HR for their work and that looks very good to a customer, but it's not real world 2010 pricing (mechanics (excuse me, auto technicians) are getting more like $85/HR nowadays, why shouldn't we?).
Rich

[baileyuph]

I'm tired  now Doyle..  sheesh  .. coffee break!

Thanks Cheryl, I hear ya!  LOL

If I had spent the time on foam analysis and muslim inner cover, hopefully I could have done that job in three hours.  It would have pushed me. 

Given the amount of feedback provides a reliable sample size, I will temporize the data with these step variances to give a meaningful T-cushion time standard.  Muslim liners, for me do take time to yield an accurate cover.  Too, as you say, the fabric characteristics and pattern are another factor to adjust in the data.  I will try my best to keep the statistic based on apples to apples. ;)

You should not expect to do a T cushion from scratch in one hour. Two hours is much closer to the standard and so I'd say you were right where you should be with that one.

Rich, I suppose what drives my wish to be able to perform that task in much less time is our business profits are directly related to our production.  The market for this type of work has the fat trimmed out, therefore to keep the bottom line decent, I feel it needs to be done in an hour or maybe hour and a half.  As Cheryl has commented, it is a doubtful achievement.  Was this my first cushion, far from it, so going forward with the same equipment, it is very doubtful that there are higher efficiencies to to be expected.

Realistically, at a shop rate of $50 an hour and given my efficiency, one has to really work at this to make it all come together in our current custom market.   In round numbers, this cushion cost the customer close to $200 bucks.  IMHO, there is no fat in this one.

What do you think the factory standard for this same work would be?  I would suggest less than half hour.  In that scenario, then they might have less than $75 in generating that same product, possibly slightly less.  Of course, by the time it goes through a retail step, it might be higher delivered to the consumer.

If there is much integrity to my comparative analysis, it is no wonder custom upholstery merely can't compete. 

I would find your data interesting, hope you can find it.

Thanks, more input to the T-cushion is encouraged.

Doyle 

[kodydog]

Doyle,
my wife does all the books etc. and she has a background in cost accounting.  she constantly analyses how long it takes me to do each piece.  She keeps good records and we have seen that the time varies from piece to piece. But on the average a T cushion with new foam takes almost two hours.

[gene]

What influences the taking of more or less time:

Matching the fabric on the front of the cushion. I match it perfectly. I have seen other's who obviously took a lot less time. No matching is quicker than having to match the pattern.

Type of fabric: Big time stretchiness, and/or loose weave takes more time than a microfiber, for example. Vinyl takes more time than a nice, tight weave, made for upholstery, fabric.

If the fabric is really, really streatchy, I will put a zipper pocket on both sides. This gives me some wiggle room when sewing on the top panel.

One stitch for the top panel, welt cord, and boxing, instead of two. I try to do one stitch but sometimes the fabric, or the pattern match, requires me to sew the welt cord onto the panel, then sew on the boxing.

Making a new pattern takes only 2 or 3 minutes. I trace the pattern onto the fabric and then onto the new foam.

I always put poly batting over foam.

I insert the foam with silk film.

A narrow top ends of the T takes more time than nice, big fat top ends of the T.

If I cut my welt cord Vertical or Horizontal, instead of on the bias, this takes less time, because I cut it as I am cutting out the other furniture pieces or at the beginning.

I serge all my welt cord. This gives me a perfect 1/2' lip. I don't need to do this. I do not do it with vinyl or leather. It is how I was taught and I just like doing it. This is an extra step that takes more time than not doing it.

Zipper: if I have a 4" boxing and I want a zipper that is 30" long, I cut out two strips of fabric that are 4" x 30". I then, usually, iron them in half. When I sew my zipper together, the zipper is now 4" wide. This is faster for me because I cut the zipper fabric the same size as the boxing fabric and I do not need to measure the zipper to make sure it is 4".

I use nylon zippers and mono thread so I do not need to sew a piece of fabric over the zipper ends to keep the metal zipper teeth from cutting the thread.

When I started I spent 6 hours on a T cushion once. I was teaching myself and there are so many variable involved. This is why folks talk about a 10 year apprenticship for upholstery.

Today my goal is to do T cushions in 2 hours max.

gene

[Rich]

Doyle,
This is what I have from the Marine fabricator's manual;
(all measurements in feet)
SIZE    HRS.
2x2    1.5
2x4    1.5
2x6    2

Options
Welt adds .5 hr
Piping for small to lg cushions adds .25-.5 hr.
Add 25% for fabrics that req. pattern match
Add patterning time
Add .5-1 hr. if cutting new foam


I thought welt and piping were used interchangeably, so I don't know why there is a separate listing for each of them. These are for the type of cushions you'd find on a boat, which means most often they'd be in vinyl, no dacron wrap, no muslin cover
and no T-cushions.

As far as factory times go, I don't see any comparison whatsoever since a factory is using techniques that only lend themselves to mass production and they are cutting multiple pcs. from the same fabric design and color. The economies of scale enable the times to be much lower.

I have always felt that the type of work we, as a custom shop do is better compared to the prototyping operation a factory might engage in when coming out with a new product. I'm sure many hours go into the developement of a new style and if that's as far as it went (one piece of furniture) they'd go out of business after the first piece at the prices they are forced to sell at. Since we are essentially offering something close to a prototype, we must charge as much as we possibly can while employing as many labor saving practices as possible, all the while realizing that we put ourselves at a distinct disadvantage if we try to compare our offering to that of a factory and mass merchandise retailer. It can't work, rather we have to stress those qualities that are characteristic of a small operation; customization to customer's taste, wide selection of fabrics, ability to utilize a customer's existing, high quality frame, etc. and market these qualities to customers who value this type of service.
Rich

[Peppy]

Sorry, I need to interject,

Add .5-1 hr. if cutting new foam

HA! Thats one fancy piece of foam!

I have always felt that the type of work we, as a custom shop do is better compared to the prototyping operation a factory might engage in when coming out with a new product. I'm sure many hours go into the developement of a new style and if that's as far as it went (one piece of furniture) they'd go out of business after the first piece at the prices they are forced to sell at. Since we are essentially offering something close to a prototype, we must charge as much as we possibly can while employing as many labor saving practices as possible, all the while realizing that we put ourselves at a distinct disadvantage if we try to compare our offering to that of a factory and mass merchandise retailer. It can't work, rather we have to stress those qualities that are characteristic of a small operation; customization to customer's taste, wide selection of fabrics, ability to utilize a customer's existing, high quality frame, etc. and market these qualities to customers who value this type of service.
Rich

Well said.

[bobbin]

I don't necessarily agree with your comment on the time for new foam, Peppy. 

I do a lot of interior work on yachts and I can tell you that cutting foam for a big V-berth takes a lot of time.  Usually, I have to glue pcs. together, then cut it to the shape, and then go back and cut the bevel along the outboard edge.  I can also tell you that many times the salon cushions for big sailboats are very intricate, requiring multiple bevelled edges to sit into the area behind the coaming neatly and smoothly. 

I can cruise right along on cushions and depending on the complexity of them (bevelling foam), cutouts, flaps for snaps, etc.. I am usually in the 2 1/2-3 hr. range. In the shop I am required to apply cording to the tops/bottoms, when I do my own work I insert the cording as I join the tops/bottoms and the boxing.  I make my zipper boxing the same way Gene does. 

[Rich]

To be fair bobbin, the manual also includes time standards for V-berth cushions and w/o looking, I'm sure they post a much higher time for those, but these would be square or rectangular cushions which take less time. I think their times are generous, but we can fall into traps at either end of the spectrum. If we quote our best times to the customer and something does come up to increase the times (Murphy's Law) we can kick ourselves for not building in a better margin, but if we quote a worst case scenario, the worst case might be the loss of a job as we all know :(.
Rich

[JuneC]

Only takes me about 10 minutes to pattern and cut out foam for a rectangular cushion.  What takes the time is going through the scrap heap first to see if something is the correct shape and size to use before cutting into a new sheet.  To glue or not to glue.  Are pieces to glue the same density.  Can foam seams be placed where they won't be felt through the cover.  etc....  If deciding on a new sheet, what's the best layout to reduce scrap.  That process takes much longer for me than the actual cut out. 

[Peppy]

I do a lot of interior work on yachts and I can tell you that cutting foam for a big V-berth takes a lot of time. 

I do too, but come on. An hour is a long time. My last Unit took an hour to make a simple bench cushion with batting and that is why he's not my current Unit.

What takes the time is going through the scrap heap first to see if something is the correct shape and size to use before cutting into a new sheet.  To glue or not to glue.  Are pieces to glue the same density.  Can foam seams be placed where they won't be felt through the cover.  etc.... 

I piece scrap foam together too, but I make it all ahead of time when there's enough scrap to do so. Since the scraps are already paid for I feel bad about charging the customer to piece it back together. He's getting stung on the foam and the labour for cutting his foam anyway, no need to ding him again for creating something out of nothing. Maybe I'm wrong and thats why I'm not rich. Whatev.

This pad of pieced together scrap start to finish/scraps to pad took a half hour.

Thats 2 layers laminated, made of pieced sheets. That includes getting the ladder to get the foam down from the high shelf, finding the camera and taking the picture ect....

Sorry to be hijacking the thread like this. That marine standard thingy just makes me laugh.

We charge $50 labour (an hour at furniture rate) for a small cushion, T or not. The reigning philosophy being "What you loose on the apples you make up on the bananas." Another reason I'm not rich probably.

[Ihavenoname]

To make a T cushion from scratch about 2 hours is what I would figure.

1.5 hours to make the cover and to cut out foam and wrap dacron and put in cover about 30 minutes.

Total about 2 hours. It might be more or less.

[bobbin]

I don't think an hour is that long when you have to answer the telephone, speak with customers, work around other people in the shop, etc..  To that end, Peppy, I think it would be interesting to know if the marine standards are based on straight, uninterrupted time or are from the "real world" of a busy shop... say at peak season, lol. 

Like you, June, I have to sort through accumulated scrap to find the likely candidates for gluing, and then piecing those pcs. so the glue joint are places in inoccuous places or away from cut lines.  It does take a fair piece of time to do a complex salon layout properly so foam is not wasted unnecessarily. 

[Peppy]

I don't think an hour is that long when you have to answer the telephone, speak with customers, work around other people in the shop, etc..  

If its not the customer who's cushion it is on the phone, how could you dream of charging him for the call? If my plumber billed me for 1/2 an hour he spent on the phone asking the wife whats for dinner I'd be (rightly) furious. In my mind you can't bill the customer for delays that aren't his fault. I get paid to poo but not by the customer. Its part of my salary.