Should I get what I pay for, or pay for what I get?

[sofadoc]

This topic gets batted around a lot here, but here goes again.
I've had a helper for about 5 years now. He lives close by. He also works for a nearby paint store, and a carpet store. Between the 3 of us, we usually give him a full days work. He's 40 years old, lives with his mother, and his needs are simple. He just wants a little beer and cigarette money. For me, he helps with PU & Delivery, strips furniture, and does general clean up. I pay him twice as much as the other stores, so I expect at least a reasonable effort from him. The other store owners have chastized me for over-paying him. I am beginning to see their point.
I just don't think that stripping sofas is "brain surgery", but apparently, it must be. He misses 100's of jagged staples that I have to finish pulling.
And he is constantly nicking finished wood.
Should I be an A-hole with him? Or should I pay less and expect less?
I'm not interested in replacing him, anybody else will just move on in a week or 2. I've hired a few teenagers before. They just whine about how hard it is. And I don't have enough full-time work for a responsible adult.

[PDQ]

Get what you pay for. If he's not doing his job correctly then keep throwing the work back at him until he does it correctly. The penny will drop sooner or later.

[bobbin]

Frankly? he needs to lay off the butts and the beer and smarten the hell up.  He gets paid more at your shop and draggin' his sorry ass and doing a crappy job isn't the way to get a raise, let alone hold on to a job that pays more than any of the others.  I'd spell it out for him and give him a time frame in which he must clean up his act.  If he doesn't, find someone else for the position.  Life's too short for that garbage. 

Maybe it's time for him to learn the key phrase for people who need to learn how to hold a job:  "would you like fries with that?". 

[Mojo]

I believe honesty is the best policy. I would sit him down and tell him nicely but get your point across that he is making more at your shop then at his other jobs yet his work is way below par.

Tell him what you expect and tell him he needs to get the job done correctly or your not going to give him a raise but rather cut his pay.

I have seen it many times before where a compassionate business owner puts up with a slacking employee because they like him. There is nothing wrong with having compassion for an employee but in all honesty your not doing him any favors by not being honest about his work.

Tell him exactly what you expect and if he doesn't perform to your standards he is history. I myself would not cut his pay. I would cut him from the team.

If you get into a position that you need to fire him and rehire someone else, look to retirees. There are alot of senior citizens out there who are looking for part time work to fill out their day.

Chris

[scottymc]

I agree with pdq, just keep on throwin it back at him, right now it sound like your doing all the harder cleaning up for him. The penny will drop or he will get sick of it and quit. It sounds like this guy does not have much in his life and the local bussnesses are doing something to look after him, like a self styled communitie project. Like you said if you get some one else they will only stay 2 weeks so you'll spend all your time answering the new guys questions (every 2 weeks) so slow and steady is probably your best option. 

[Mike8560]

I'm
leaning toward monos way of thinking  if it keeps going the way it is I migt do the same with my kid.

[sofadoc]

If you get into a position that you need to fire him and rehire someone else, look to retirees. There are alot of senior citizens out there who are looking for part time work to fill out their day.

That's actually not a bad idea!  The only snag is: I need someone with "a strong back, and a weak mind". Most seniors are just the opposite. If they had any arthritic problems, I don't think they could strip furniture (gripping and tugging can be hard on the hand joints), or do any heavy lifting. It would have to be a senior who's still in pretty good shape. Most of THEM are out playing golf.
The main reason that I've stuck with the one I have now is: he lives only a few blocks away. He comes instantly when I need him, and he leaves as soon as I'm done with him. On average, I only use him about 10-12 hours a week. I couldn't expect anyone else to be at my beckon call like that.
For general "grunt work", I pay him $10 hr. For stripping, I pay him by the piece, in which case he usually averages $15hr. The other stores pay him minimum wage.

[JuneC]

I wouldn't hesitate on the younger senior citizen.  The guy who helps me out sometimes was remarking just a few weeks ago about how he used to have to have his son help him get the outboard on and off the dinghy and has had to for years...  till now.  A season doing physical labor has caused him to regain much of his lost strength.  Young people (my daughter included) just don't like this type of work.  They want to use their brains and fingers on a keyboard (or nothing at all) and get paid big bucks. 

June

[Darren Henry]

I'm with Chris and PDQ on dealing with this guy.First sit him down and explain your concerns like Chris said.Then do as PDQ suggests and supervise more closely. If you're already paying him piece work it is very easy to just keep passing stuff back to him until he has last of the staples out and the trim wood repaired before you pay him.Just let him know that he is responsible for COMPLETING the job no matter how long it takes him to do it correctly and that he will only be paid for what is done completely.

[sofadoc]

I've decided to use him for grunt work only. I'll strip the furniture myself (I end up doing it anyway).
But I do want you guy's opinion on this.  Should I expect him to be able to competently pull staples out of a piece of furniture? I was doing it at the age of 10. I just never considered it to be a skill.
In degree of difficulty, how would guys compare stripping furniture to sweeping the floor? Or weed-eating? Seems like, if you can start and operate a weed-eater or lawn mower, you should be able to master pulling staples in 5 years.
BTW> He can't press buttons either (my 6 year old grandson can).

[bobbin]

He's been skatin' by all his life, in all liklihood.  He does the minimum amount of work required to skate by and occasionally someone "calls him on it" and he'll try a little harder... for a few days.  He's lazy.  I'd sit down and give him a written set of requirements and give him a time frame to turn things around.  And then?  I'd  can his sorry, lazy ass. 

When I used to manage people I was very clear about what I expected and I was a rather stern "task master".  Half-assed didn't cut it with me.  Neither did perpetual tardiness. 

[scottymc]

I agree with Darren just keep on sending it back to him till he does it how you asked and also while he is doing that strip some stuff yourself from start to finish in front of him just to give him the message. He doesnt sound lazy, more simple if he cant make a button and where are you going to find a replacement that will stick around anyone one with half a brain will move on first chance he gets. I don't think I would have been able to work for Bobbin I don't think she would have gotten the concept that surf and fishin come before work. :D

[kodydog]

I know this topic is a few weeks old but wanted to give my two cents worth. With most employees you've got to figure out what motivates them. With some its money and others might be time off, with this guy it might be a six pack at the end of the week.

When I used to work in manufacturing they worked us nine hours a day and if we got our work done we'd get half day off Friday. Another company gave us a bonus at the end of each week if we raised our production.

  I once hired a high school kid to pull staples and help PU and Del. After three months he started slacking off. I bought a chalk board, wrote his schedule on it and told him if he got his work done I'd buy him a pizza at the end of the week. It worked. Cheep fix.

Now this guy may be a hopeless case seeing hes 40 years old and still living with his mother. You talked about whiny teenagers. Have you thought about collage students. Theirs a world of difference. Find one that's paying his own way and not on daddies dime. One of the best employees I ever hired was just out of the Navy and going to collage on the GI bill and he worked for me till he graduated, about 2 years.

[sofadoc]

I know this topic is a few weeks old but wanted to give my two cents worth.

Hey, I think it's great when Newbies give a fresh perspective to topics that have slipped from the front page.
The college student idea is a good one. But that would require having work layed out for them on a more regimented schedule. And when I get a customer on the phone, I'm ready to deliver their furniture IMMEDIATELY. I can't wait for a college student to get out of class. That's why I've stuck with this guy. He comes when I want him, and he leaves when I'm done with him.

  I once hired a high school kid to pull staples and help PU and Del. After three months he started slacking off. 

Ok, tell me this: In YOUR opinion, is pulling staples a skill that is difficult to master? (I never thought that it was). My guess is that your high school kid slacked off because he lacked motivation, not because he just couldn't grasp the concept of "see a staple...pull it out". 
That's why I get so frustrated with my guy. Either he's PRETENDING to be stupid in order to get out of working, or stripping furniture is a LOT more mentally challenging than I thought.

[scottymc]

Doc, come on! pulling stapes is very challenging, especially if you have not had 1/3 of your brain removed or killed it with recreational drugs 8) :D