sewing top gun

[fragged8]

hiya

Having just made a dreadful looking Dodger i realize i don't understand top gun very well.

or pockets for that matter.  the wrinkles in the sides are enough for me to scrap this
cover and start again ( If i'm not happy to put my name on it, it gets scrapped )
, also there is a pull from the corners of the front bow pocket to the main bow


Is there a firm rule when doing pockets ? it seems to me there's too much guess work involved
in making frame allowance ?? the frame is 3/4" on this job but i normally use 1" so had to guess the
allowance.
Pockets are always annoying me, purely because they seem so hit an miss ? sometimes they
work sometimes they don't. it would be really good if some one had a failproof method ??

The northcoast way is a good method and failproof but only works on when patterning onto fabric blankets
You mark the bow center on the outside and then mark the bow edge on the inside in the direction of fall of the bow.
When sewing, you sew down the centerline as usual and lay the pocket flat, you then roll the pocket forward to the line
you marked for the bow edge and sew it down in that position. That way the marking is self adjusting for the bow diameter.

Also do you think the side wrinkles are from me tugging too much on the fabric when joining the
panels or top stiching ?

[stitcher_guy]

I use quite a bit of Top Gun around here because people use their covers for winter storage, and during the season there is a lot of under-tree storage when folks are at the lake. It's durable and makes for good covers. But, just like you, when I sew a long run with no support behind, it leaves here with those pesky wrinkles. Yet, whenever I see the cover after that, they're gone. Just like a convertible top that is coated material, it seems to just need time to settle in and smooth out. I've never had a complaint from a customer about the Top Gun. In fact, I got a Christmas card last year from a fisherman who told me his cover was great and traveled beautifully.

[fragged8]

Thx Russ

  I think if there was half the wrinkles I would have let it go, but I beat myself up when I get them, even more so when i get pulls coming off pockets

I did hot knife the first one so i'm making again but cutting with scissors this time.

[JuneC]

How did you lay out the pattern on the fabric for the large two end pieces?  Your center piece looks good to me.  But I'm thinking you have the a bias cut where the greatest strength should be.  I'd have cut the bow piece with the grain of the fabric at 10 o'clock/4 o'clock and the opposite on the rear piece.  Just so when you pull the front corner, you don't actually pull wrinkles into the piece.  Doing that, though, you'd need to reinforce the seam with something stable - even Top Gun - cut straight on the grain so that the seam doesn't stretch as you sew since then, the seam would be on the bias. 

I think your front pocket could be longer.  The stretch you see from the corner of the pocket back to the bow's upper curve, if it were "moved" to where the fabric is on the grain would eliminate the pull.  Follow me?

June

[Can-Vas]

June's right;  if you could somehow tension the top more in the middle it would also put less stress on the front pocket corners and still provide a tight top.  That's one of my biggest peeves is getting enough tension in the middle where there is no support, whereas the corners have support so the bows tend to  flex into the middle.
I've seen some of these type convertibles made without front pockets at all and they still seem to work good without the corner wrinkles - but I don't know if that's an advised method...

Also;  just my 2 pence worth - Looking at your pics again I think the next time I'd put a bit more crown in the frame also, which might help with the way the fabric comes down from the shoulders...?

[Peppy]

Why is the frame on backwards? I don't think it's helping you. Your pulling your tension down to the front of the boat pulling against a pivot. Instead of pulling from the front of the boat over the frame and down the wings. Currently the harder you pull forwards the more your front/back bar move. Maybe tension and splitter bars would help? Before you make another one I'd try putting the canvas on the frame backwards and holding the frame up underneath the done up top. Nothing to lose now!

  If you have problems with flaps why not put a few snap tabs in instead? On simple convertable tops with a roll back front we put 3 tabs spaced between the zippers. It's only to carry the tension and keep the bar there when the front is opened. You xould even use velcro ties. Those front flaps can be tricky without a push gauge. Did the 'pushing zipper flaps' thread not help?

And yech! Topgun? You crazy! But hey, if it was easy everybody would be doing it!   

[fragged8]

hiya

I think june has hit the nail on the head, i cut the front panel and top panel lengthways from
the roll and the 2 wings were aligned so that the open edge was on the selv edge for less stretch.
effectively cutting the wings on the bias.
I'm not sure how i can get this to work on the front panel though ?

all the panels were re cut today but i was waiting to see what you guys thought before i messed
another top up :-) I will cut the wings again but align the sewn edge with the grain and the front
pocket is going to be replaced with something simpler.

i have noticed today how much stretch there is in TG, eeek !!

I don't think i'll be offering TG as an option on this type of top in the future.

A lot of english tops don't use pockets at all, either a small snapped piece of fabric
or a good one i've seen is a length of fabric extended from the zipper reinforcement
and secured with a common sense fastener back on itself. ( See pic ) the velcro pocket isnt
needed on this top, it was a mistake but nobody noticed :-)


I hate using velcro sewn to the top as the velcro shrinks and makes the top look ugly


the frame is that way Peppy because the bows stack forwards and the jaw slide doesnt dig
itself into the GRP.

I used TG because i didn't know any better :-) and as for the zipper push i hate to admit it
but i still don't really understand it   :P

[Darren Henry]

I hate using velcro sewn to the top as the velcro shrinks and makes the top look ugly

That actually was going to be my suggestion as it is pretty much the trade standard in Kenora. I've never had issues with it shrinking, But I'm in south/central Canada. You are cutting the velcro when you do that aren't you? I sew the inside curve and then cut across the tape right up to the sewing to make it lay flat before I sew the outside edge. Depending on the crown/curve it could be every inch or every 6".

[Mike8560]

Why is the frame on backwards? !    

I wouldnt say its wrong. Im in center console heaven down here and see allot of different set ups allot do it like rich so it lays nice to the front ( although you can add a dogleg in the bow to help if    the main bow is to the rear).
http://www.atlanticmarinecanvas.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/IMG_1061.322162620_std.JPG
I heard you on the pull though and some do it your way too
http://www.gausebuiltboats.com/images/26_Dodger.jpg

when I make mine " Backwards" I try to make bolth bow even lenght to prevent the situation you described.

[Miami Mike]

Hey Mike are those tops made of Top Gun ??? If they are I would love to have a copy of them.... Nice work ? Great work...

[Peppy]

Why is the frame on backwards? !   

I wouldnt say its wrong.

I didn't say it was wrong, I said it was backwards.  And like symmetrical, backwards is a state of mind. If you can get it right, it's never wrong.

If we're showing funny dodgers on funny boats; I was at a motel this weekend with the family and a customer passed up the river and made me think of this thread-


hard to see, and it wasn't backwards. But still a funny little thing.

Anytime I do a 'backwards' top we support the 'front bar' with splitter bars back to the main bar supported with tension bars. Or the other way around....
....and you though my other thread was hard to follow!

If I wanted it to lay nice up front, I'd think about slide track or mounting it inside the gunnel on the ?combing? with side/universal mounts. Or tell him to shove the framework up his nose when he's not using it.

(His nose if he's lucky!)

[fragged8]

hiya

Back off hols :-)

Nice looking dodgers Mike, i love the one you linked to
with the side openings, thats sweet .

I see you're using tenax fasteners  ? do you pull the dodger drum tight
at 90m degrees to those fasteners ? 'm guessing they are about the only
fasteners that would take that kind of pull at that angle ?

Our old traditional sailing boats use Tenax a lot but man are they pricey.

[Mike8560]

I see you're using tenax fasteners  ? do you pull the dodger drum tight
at 90m degrees to those fasteners ? 'm guessing they are about the only
fasteners that would take that kind of pull at that angle ?

this one was standard turnbuttons Rich and i like then  drum tight.
http://s782.photobucket.com/albums/yy102/Mike8560/dodgerback.jpg

oh ya peppy generaly slide dont work on a bow wiht the angle.

[206RB]

Common sense better than tenax here.

[fragged8]

hiya

sorry mike they looked like tenax on the pic.

mostly here only sail boaters like the common sense fasteners


Update on the dodger,

I took Junes advise and changed the direction of the bias on the wings and my seamstress gave me a tip.

Do all the top stitching from the back of the material !!!
it really does work, the dodger is just about wrinkle free  :o

I'd be interested to see if anyone else has sucess top stitching from the back of the material.

BTW mike i'm back in London on thursday seeing my barrister so may get a result soon/.  ;D

rich