Attaching to radar arches

[Peppy]

I wonder if we could all show some shots of how we attach canvas to arches. Heres what we do currently;



/arch->awning rail->keder welt->zipper->canvas/ with the canvas carrying over the awning rail and snapping to the arch.

we used to do;
/arch->awning rail->keder welt->3"canvas piece->zipper->canvas/ and the canvas stopped at the awning rail and the 3" piece stayed with the arch.

We had leaking issues so now do the other. This picture is infact a retro-fix, everything after the topstitched seam behind the back bar is new. With new snaps added to the arch.

I think snaps+awning rail is overkill and silly. Lots of times the snaps 'pull up the slack' if the awning rail is installed badly (ie wanders drunkenly) or if the arch is crooked. Is awning rail just 'prestige'? Is it just a gutter preventing blow back? Why both?

Okay, still with me? Now inside;





Is it just me or does that look crappy? I like pie crust, just not in my boat tops.

How fix?

*edit* I just realized re-reading this that you can see what we used to do in the first pic. How the side window attaches. Thats what I'm talking about.

[JuneC]

I'm with you on this one, Peppy.  I think awning rail plus snaps on the arch is redundant.  On occasion, I've seen weatherstrip under the snaps across the arch, but frequently, not.  Only use I can think of for the rail is to act as a gutter and to make my top more complicated to pattern/fit. 

I've seen 2 boats recently where the black canvas had heated the awning rail so much the Keder had pulled out.  The plastic softened up enough and gapped open right at the inside turn.  Worst solution I've seen is the 3" "valance" placed OVER the main canvas pieces with velcro to hold it onto the tops.  It did nothing to seal out water.  My guess is that they just didn't want to see the rail.  Extra work for no value IMHO.  My favorite way to do these is to simply use the awning rail, and make the canvas top just long enough to cover the Keder and rail.  I like it to butt against the arch but not slide up. 

[Can-Vas]

I'm still liking the idea of a 2 - 3" piece with zipper, but with velcro on the other side rather than taking canvas to the arch with snaps - but you're both so right...   nothing seems to be the ideal solution...     :-\

[Mike8560]

Ahh arches. Used to be biminis went under the arches. And looked good but the side windows had issues leaking at the arch where it passed inside the arch. After that they  tried snapi g the top to the arch with weather stripping but that leaked so they moulded the arches to divert water then the track came out  and worked with the zipper flap but the astic trak was exposx to the uv. The  snap and track I think it the most watertight a d the  snaped can as covers the track and caulking and takes  some of the stress off the zippers   Life was allo simer before arches

[fragged8]

hiya

I just did an arch, i made a 4 bow bimini with an in-fill piece between the bimini and the arch. the in-fill was attached to the arch with track
and the side curtains also attached with track along the arch.
The track side didnt have snaps as well and seems to work fine, no leaks.

what i did do was make sure the bimini track extended past the side curtain tracks to act like a rain gutter so any run off from
the top track drips outside the side tracks.

Rich

[JuneC]

As for the "pie crust", have you tried stretching the zipper as you sew it to the Keder?  Then gather/scrunch the zip as you sew to the canvas.  I've also had Keder shrink if the top was tight enough.  Sometimes I have to pull it tight and put a short screw through the track and into the bead at the ends to keep it from creeping up the curve of the arch. 

June

[Mike8560]

LlI'll do the screw also on the side windows June. I've seen the zipper slide out when the window is off.

[regalman190]

I'm remaking a camper back off of a radar arch now. It has Keder welt track on top of the arch for about 4' and then snap either side to the side panels.

[Mike8560]

 this was a simple arch. I worked to what was there just a normal pvc awning track that was on top with snaps around the curved sides of the arch it was a 50 plus Tiwaneese yacht of 80s vintage.
I added a few pic I took from the rear hard top when i was up there.

[Peppy]

The  snap and track I think it the most watertight a d the  snaped can as covers the track and caulking and takes  some of the stress off the zippers   Life was allo simer before arches

Sure, the stress is now split between the snaps and zipper and it is strong as hell, but there is added stress to the customer trying to do up the zipper and snaps 8' above the floor. Why don't we bust out the screws and cup washers and screw the canvas to the arch and be done with it. And then shingles and roofing tar and we'll put an end to those pesky leaks once and for all!

I agree it is a heavy duty fastening system (keder/zipper + snaps) but my average customer WILL NOT take the main top off EVER. (exceptions exist) He won't take it off because it has become a huge PITA to take off due to all the fasteners we keep adding. And the keder/zipper just adds another seam to leak and need re-sewing.

If it sounds like I don't like awning rail, it's not just that, it's awning rail + snaps that gets my goat. The best application, IMO, for it is on camperbacks under the arch, with snaps down the side. And curtains hanging straight down. This curvy, twisty, heaty, bendy is just dumb. IMHO. And then add snaps!

On a side note- How do you attach your rail to the arch?

I used to drill and countersink the rail for a #6 screw. Now I've modified a popriveter to work in the rail. No need to countersink or predrill, but the rivet doesn't set too well in the track and needs a little pounding, er, finesse. What are the other options?

[Mike8560]

Well if you talking flexible track peppy I use the hex he'd screws  and bit sold for it as ithas a real small
head the kedar can slide past for installing it I've found venture tape will bold it great in place while I drill and screw then calk the edge with 5200.

And I don't know of anybody who yaks the two tops off the arches on theese sea rays unless there is a hurricane comming. That's why sea Ray and whaler has all begun with fiberglass hard tops with glass top to bottom trying to put us canvas guys out of buisness.

[JuneC]

Anyone tried heat-bending Costa Track?  That would be ideal for arches if it can be bent.  I hate those little head screws used for the flex-rail.

June

[Mike8560]

I never really look into costa June. seems its bends fine from there site.
http://www.costamarinecanvasonline.com/costatrack.htm