Thread Guides

[brmax]

Hey everyone wanted to share a bit of information, with a thread breakage problem I had with several of the same brand, same casting yet having different guides and mfg not tops in my opinion describing to me or presenting betterly : )
The 08nh series having no issues and having a large square center guide but no upper guide.
I see in photos way hidden some have an upper guide for different duty sewing.

Several other 41 machines have different guides although all these mentioned are same castings/ machines in my eyes.
Anyway today I had the opportunity to view a manual and at this time only looked for this discussed here in my post, photos of guides and thread routing.

I found I needed to purchase through trials the large square guide in say center position on the
Juki 1508nh model, this was not only the issue in the 41 series but was a required part in guiding the thread. It is difficult as the part is only listed for the 1510 that I could find online parts manuals.

I only run 92size in both coats ultradee and solarfix 2000, I found I had breakage in and from the guide area. And of course I seen this right away just like tv 30minutes bada boom! all fixed and moving forward.
My manuals are not as upfront in this particular photo as needed like in the below link, thumbs up!
Anyway I had 2/3rds more issues with the poly but still the same. All the 41 came with the upper guide but 2 the center guide was different, its small and shallow. Fwiw the non safety clutch model came with the works!, still the routing is a needed key.
Not knowing in the beginning where this was starting it was a process and discovery, I felt like a making movie but all the awards for the year had been given out so moving on as we do.

So in this nutshell the thread was looping in the guide area catching on the tension knob "BING" that's that 190 hittin the side, so now stitchin ahead with thread directly going left from take up spring through guide then up to next guide towards lever and returning from the lever straight down through new center guides sized proper to the small lowest spring loaded guide.


pg 5 illustration 11, 13
http://www.consew.com/Files/112347/InstructionManuals/P1541S-CC.pdf

good days to ya
Floyd

[MinUph]

Hey Floyd,
  So are you saying to run the thread through the center guide both up and again down like the manual shows? I had it that way and it was breaking thread. I run Nylon thread for indoor work. There is no twist to the thread.

[brmax]

Yes Sir Paul, that's what I found in short order in the manual and thought it was smartly put there, that was dang tough finding in mine.

In that consew photo it looks like anyone would, and I should have mentioned before the juki take up spring is in line only with the top guide directly, even with the big thumb size center guide I purchased new, and have on the 08, it looks sized the same as your consew but it sits way off to the left farther as I see it in manual I linked.

My manuals do talk about light med, heavy a bit? they are different year produced books and show on standard upholstery (I'm reading into how I see their desc.) the 41 is threaded from the take up spring directly left to a large center guide to the top guide, through lever and down so 2 times through center and on down.
( 2 of mine had a tiny ity bity shallow center guide so was skipped 1 time as was purchased )  Both these were strung and both were new pretty much, these both had the small shallow guide hugging the casting. I could tell from when at home and inspected they did not have the size guide as in the manual I had, it was easy to see. Later lesson learned!

They show in one of my manuals having the 1541H and has the big center guide like on yours and only use these with no upper so use as the 08nh model, go figure I was getting a headache hehe

I did first get an 08 ya might remember, Anyway it doesn't have a top guide like we have on the others, so it does a double through the center 1st up to lever and then down to lower.

So all this was kinda a pita as photos in my manuals are tough finding in these engineers manual so I do think the consew manual is spot on in my experienced problem and will look at it farther.
This problem is how I found best routing of thread and so mention it here, though with out the large center guide its just not able to run the same path so not so much addressing your present deal.

I also have some nylon from the machines I picked up but sticking right now to what I have been trained to do and will surely bother you when I jump into other stuff so its canvas here.
I know this is not an answer or help but thought others that may have the small hoki guide as mine did might find this helpful.
With all that air chilled If I can help, more than glad to, as some how I find this part interesting "still"
If it gets dam serious I will send a 41 head down your way, I think I can read ya pretty well.

Have a good day
Floyd

[sofadoc]

Mine is one of the older 1508 models, made right after they discontinued the 563.

Here's my thread guide routing. I used button twine for better clarity.

[brmax]

That sure looks as mine was on the 41s and I couldn't really say why the twisting I have had possibly made things worse in my scenario and probably makes the issue, but I will admit I am into same setups as a rule so have continued that. A fleet hang up I guess
Dennis it looks there to be a backing plate different shape for the tensioner but the spring looks to set the same even when its down out of tension. And the large guide same stuff
My deal maybe all in stopping and restarting procedures and possibly making a loop unknowingly, I did start pulling a bit of thread from the lever area before/lifting.
What I can say Dennis I did think that looked proper in my mind for the 41, now the 08 didn't have the top so here in these issues I really head back to the forums.
I recall the first jumpin changes of the spool hanger, top limb guide, how many lop di dos through all of it, it got me thinking. I have many times used quietly: self they spent millions on these steps and now your gonna try a change, and then make others believe something. 
Yep that's me, Rock On!

thanks for postin the pic there
Floyd

[MinUph]

  Well yesterday I adjusted the bobbin case and timing of same more carefully and it helped. Today I was looking closely at the area you have been talking about Floyd and found the spring thingy wasn't really doing anything. I took it apart adjusted it and now it works like it should. I threaded the machine like you said up and back down into the center guide. It sewed quite well. I still broke a needle for really no reason. I have to get a  grip on that. I don't understand why needles break on occasion.
  But all in all I sewed a very large back fabric over 1" foam and it was no problem. I felt much better about the machine today after that.

  Will keep on keepin on. And try to figure out the needle thing Monday or so.

[Mojo]

The take up spring can be the cause of a lot of headaches, especially if your thread is looping and catching on the tension knob. I had a problem with one on my long arm and the thread was looping and catching on different things. I changed the entire assembly out and it fixed the problem. These springs will also become weak over time and can break so it is always good to have several spares around. They cost next to nothing ( $ 6 bucks for 5 ). I keep numerous spare parts at the shop in the event something goes South on me and breaks. Take up/tension assemblies, bobbin cases, spare feet, needles, guides, etc. We have such a tight production schedule that we cannot afford to have a machine go down.

Paul, the only time we break needles is when we are sewing in spline, which is similar to a real heavy solid welting cord. The needle will deflect sometimes and bust. If your breaking needles and not doing anything special like sewing welt then the problem could be in the timing or in a foot. Slowly rotate your machine by hand and watch the feed dogs, needle bar and the needle hole on the foot. I had a bad foot once that broke needles. Also check the clearance on your needle and hook.

I use titanium needles and have had few problems with them. They seem to stay sharper longer as well despite sewing heavy vinyl and canvas 5 days a week. Our machines get a helluva work out every week.

Chris

[MinUph]

Chris,
  This breaking needle hing is very strange. I have checked the needle path and adjusted the bobbin hook and needle relationship and the feet are all centered with the needle. It will sew for 1/2 hour and then just bend a needle. I know it has to be hitting something but haven't figured out why yet. I will be the boss of this machine soon ! LOL.

[Mojo]

Paul:

I am at a loss without seeing it in action. Sometimes the stitcher will move the fabric at the precise time deflecting the needle. If it was a bent needle bar then it would do it all the time. If it was timing on a component it would do it all the time.

Occasionally and after sewing for a while ? I am at a loss. That would be a good question for Bob Kovar.

I am using 18 needles which are pretty stout. But I have busted 22's before when I hit something. Our former manager was pretty rough on the machines and she would break a needle now and then. No idea what she was doing but whenever I sewed on the machine it was fine.

We are finding we are adjusting and fixing the machines a lot less since she left. It is pretty amazing how one person can be easy on a machine and another a brute and beat the hell out of it and cause all kinds of problems. I had a machine going down once a week with some sort of ailment when she was with us. Since she left we have not had a machine go down once.

Chris

[MinUph]

Yes I tend to think the needle breaking is like the fabric being moved at just the right (or wrong time) and causing the needle to stress and then hit something. The last time it broke I was sewing. I had finished a section about 6' long and after I stopped and started again the needle broke right away. I may have forced the fabric I don't know. But I do also realize if the needle bar was bent it would happen all the time just makes sense, along with an issue below.

[sofadoc]

Just a half-baked theory. But is it possible that the feed dog is grabbing the fabric too tightly? Causing the needle to deflect every now and then?

[MinUph]

Just a half-baked theory. But is it possible that the feed dog is grabbing the fabric too tightly? Causing the needle to deflect every now and then?

I guess this is a possibility. Every other thing has been out of adjustment on this machine. Any idea how I would tell if this could be happening? If I found this to be the case, I'm sure I could adjust the dogs down some. I found a real repair manual online and have it available.