Dining room chair seats - your businss technique ?

[baileyuph]

My question has to do with the chair bottoms that have the large cut out in the seat bottom ----

What technique is used to rebuild where the bottom has the elastic (fairly strong) membrane stretched across and held with staples?  Usually there is some bottoming effect after use - just curious of what other business do to keep profits up and cost down with these type of jobs?

I might say, a business needs to be effective when recovering these seats but efficient at lowest cost to keep profits up.  So many customers think the biggest part of the cost is recovering materials.  Replacing everything foam/elastic membrane does drive cost up.

Maybe I can learn someting here.

Thanks ahead,

Doyle

[sofadoc]

Usually, the webbing or elastic across the top of the cutout is stretched out of shape. So the person sitting on it can feel the perimeter of the cutout. I fill that cutout cavity with 1" foam from underneath, and then web the bottom.

I did this on 1100 seats for a local college. They didn't want to recover the seats. They just wanted the sagging middle fixed. Using this bottom-web method, I was able to make the seats sit better than new without disturbing the existing fabric.

[MinUph]

I replace that crap with regular webbing. We call  it a bladder. I feel the customer should get whatever the piece needs to bring it back to better than orginal. Did you ever notice most of these bladders are not stapled on the side rails just front and back. Don't understand that thinking but 90% of them are made this way.
  The regular webbing makes for a little stiffer seat but it will outlast the bladder.

[baileyuph]

Thanks guys,

Dennis covered the issue with a circular center cut out and Paul actually addressed the example where stretchy support is stapled to front/back but not side rails?

Dennis method is exactly the one I used, it did the job at least cost.  What I am finding, as well as you is the factory method (over circular cut outs) really doesn't last long before there is significant sagging.

You paid the rent on that project Dennis!  Congratulations.

Imagine doing that by all the staple pulling and the results wouldn't have been as satisfactory.

Doyle

[baileyuph]

When it rains things can really flow because I just finished a load of dining room chair reupholstery/rebuild and seemingly it opened the gate.  Yes, got another batch.

What is noticed about the new work is there is a hole cutout but no membrane stretched over it.  Instead, another wood level below is built in to accommodate another layer of foam, about 1 inch thick.  These I have done before and represent a higher quality product which is verified as by Drexel about 40 years (+-) ago.

With that description this batch of work will be built with way more quality.  The cushions will be boxed with cording banding both edges, and 3 inches of foam in the center most part of the cushion.  Now, compare the seating and visual dynamics of that with the cheaper stuff we see with cheap fabrics stretched over particle wood.

Speaking of boxing with double edge cording, it was noted that the Drexel technique, used the automated equipment in the factory that does the self-welting cording technique.  Self-welting automation forms the boxing welted on both edges in one pass with only one layer of material.  No cutting of boxing, then welting strips, and sewing in multiple passes to get the boxing welted. 

That technique, even an old method/equipment is much more efficient than the typical capability of a smaller custom upholstery shop where things are multiple steps.

Yep, shops of today are way behind the technology curve, it is a wonder how we can stay in business and make any serious money.  We need to get bigger and more efficient!

Todays cheaper built furniture seating compared to that described above, is very inferior.  As stated before, price is what much is about today in furniture building and marketing. 

Doyle 

[sofadoc]

What is noticed about the new work is there is a hole cutout but no membrane stretched over it.  Instead, another wood level below is built in to accommodate another layer of foam, about 1 inch thick.

A lot of those were molded out of particle board with a recessed area molded right in. I've seen a lot of them now where the particle board was flaking away from years of humidity and liquid spills. Many of them crack right in the middle.

Those are the ones that are tough to strip without pulling chunks of wood out along with the fabric and staples.

[kodydog]

Yep, shops of today are way behind the technology curve, it is a wonder how we can stay in business and make any serious money.  We need to get bigger and more efficient!

Todays cheaper built furniture seating compared to that described above, is very inferior.  As stated before, price is what much is about today in furniture building and marketing.  

Doyle  

Here is how we stay in business and outperform furniture stores.

My latest job is a Duncan Phyfe sofa built in the 20's. The frame is good. Well built with tight joints. The rest of the sofa was built cheep even by today's standards. Straw for padding, not nearly enough webbing to get the job done and the seat springs were only 4-way tied. The cushions were marshal units warped with cotton. You get the picture.

The customer is an author. She writes mostly about her life growing up in North Central Florida. She has a modest house on the Suwannee River and while dealing with her she sounded like she could hardly afford the expense of a complete restoration. A starving artist?

She did a good job describing the sofa during our phone conversation. I gave her an estimate of over $1000 and I could feel her cringe. This is where I put on my salesman hat, I did my best to be courteous and professional.

I told her when it comes to cutting costs don't skimp on the craftsmanship. But rather find a fabric at a bargain price, and I can help you do that.    
   

   We will strip you sofa to the frame. We take no shortcuts. We never cover over old fabric. We will replace all    
 the  padding, retie and reweb the springs and repair any joints that may be loose.

   We will guarantee our craftsmanship for the life of the furniture.

   My wife and I preform all the work. We hire no outside help. Our standard of quality is the highest possible.

   We work in a timely and organized fashion. Usually a two week turnaround from pick-up to delivery.
   
   She was concerned the estimate would go up once we viewed the piece and I assured her we have been doing this a long time. If she could send us photos our estimate would be accurate.

When we ended the conversation I still wasn't sure we had the job. Rose came home Saturday and gave her a courtesy call. The customer said she was looking at fabric online. She found several she liked and ordered samples. Rose said she would drive by and help her pick one out. We went to her house and she chose a fabric. We assured her once again the estimate was solid and I explained this will be a custom piece built just for her. We loaded the sofa into the van and drove back to the shop.

You can't find service or quality like this at a furniture store. She came to the shop Wednesday. The sofa was all insided and she wanted to try different foam densities for the seat cushions. Shes a very nice lady and thrilled with the job and our attitude.

The only way we'll stay in business is to charge the price we need. The only way to do that is give outstanding service and unmatched quality. Its okay for the customer to think there spending a lot of money as long as they also think its all worth it. And this customer does. We will deliver her sofa Saturday morning.

   


   

[baileyuph]

Kody,
You and Rose did a perfect job of selling, servicing, and executing the shop process.  There is no doubt the customer will be pleased.

A unit made in the 20's, that really bee an old one!  Duncan Phyfe style, sort of colonial style.  Marshall units reuseable doesn't happen routinely.  That one is at and possibly over 90 years old.   Do you like the styling?  It was probably recovered a few times.

Regarding the dining room chairs I am working on, these are Drexel.  Nothing like your experience.  The customer wouldn't have them redone if they were that cheaply made.

Actually as you should know, when the cording is self covered and incorporated in the cushion, there aren't near as many staples administered to install the upholstery.  It isn't a separate process for each layer as I guess the cheaper made furniture can be. 

Kody, a question:

In your market, do you feel a shop like yours can stay busy on projects like that?  I suppose it would almost be a requirement because the Asian built pieces sold in recent years are not likely going to be recovered.  You are right, the kind of service you exemplified, wouldn't be readily presented at a sales store.

Service sells, you demonstrated that it pays to work with the right market.

Waiting for the pictures, you spoiled with your last picture.

Doyle

[kodydog]

The marshal units were a rats nest and we threw them out and replaced with poly foam.

To tell the truth I'm not real crazy about the Duncan Phyfe style. The way the legs and arms are shaped makes it hard to keep the joints tight. Almost every one I have done needs joint work including this one but not as bad as most. It had been recovered once and of course they recovered over the old fabric. They should have replaced the cushion padding at that time but they failed to do so.

Kody, a question:

In your market, do you feel a shop like yours can stay busy on projects like that?  I suppose it would almost be a requirement because the Asian built pieces sold in recent years are not likely going to be recovered.  You are right, the kind of service you exemplified, wouldn't be readily presented at a sales store.

Service sells, you demonstrated that it pays to work with the right market.

Waiting for the pictures, you spoiled with your last picture.

Doyle

Yes, but only because we are a two person shop and honestly the only shop that can do things like 8-way hand tie. Taking the time to replace all the webbing (not from the back but from the front), sew the edge roll onto the spring edge etc. Other shops say they can but when you see their work the skills are not there. We do things that other shops will not take the time to do. Things like matching the band on the cushion, and then matching the front of the decking and right on down to the skirt. It takes a little extra brain power but you end up with a truly tailored piece of furniture. And the customers were targeting notice all the added details. It doesn't take much to keep us busy and there are plenty of customers who want and appreciate this type craftsmanship.

The sofa is done and we will deliver it Saturday. I'll try to get a photo tomorrow.