newer bedroom chest - customer wants to change color

[baileyuph]

I saw a picture and one of the drawers, the customer stopped by with.  The chest, newer tecnology product, looks to not be something that would absorb a stain an in its present color there is a slight bit of grain showing.  The original could be a printed finish, makes sense?

customer's objective is to change color, the first reaction I had was use a couple coats or so of spray laquer.  That possibly would change the color at the expense of losing the little bit of printed wood grain.

Maybe some of the wood people might offer some fairly quick way to change the color on this bedroom chest.  Surfaces involved would be (I think about three or four drawer fronts, chest top, two sides and possibly where the face is not covered by the drawer fronts.

There is some good wood expertise on this site that hopefully can offer good solutions?

Doye

[SteveA]

Expert no - but best thoughts are:

There's limited information in your post but a couple of things that come to mind -
If it's a photographic finish - an issue to consider is the new finish checking down the road or lifting of the original surface.
I'm not sure what you mean by a printed finish ?  Is that applied graining or a laminate -

If you do this you realize you can only go darker in color with glaze or toners -
You need spray equipment - rattle cans aren't practical on a large job -
Test that the solvent in lacquer won't lift the artificial surface -
Clean the surface thoroughly and seal before coloring -
Make a sample for the customer before committing to the whole project -
SA

[MinUph]

Doyle,
  First you need to know what your working with. When you find this out call Mohawk tech support and they will help you do the job if possible the right way.

[baileyuph]

Good points, as expected guys.

I probably won't see an example before a few days, but from the picture the covering is a laminate that reflected a subtle wood grain.

Also, the vintage of the piece, my expectation is not solid materials.  The customer is not going to be technically challenging as long as the color is acceptable.

One question, what would be an acceptable solvent to rub on a hidden spot to determine if existing color could be removed?

Thanks,

Doyle

[byhammerandhand]

By the description, it sounds like this is a low-end piece.   The covering is unknown, but may not take another finish for any number of reasons:
- It's a laminate or thermo-foil and ordinary finishes won't bond (well) to it, resulting in peeling and cracking down the line
- It's a finish or coating that could be damaged by lacquer thinner.   
- It's a "modern" finish that's UV, catalyzed or something else and won't bond with a top coat
- Stripping might leave you with a real surprise that you can't recover from.

It's probably not so expensive to begin with that the customer wants to put a lot of time/money into it.

Without more information, I'd probably pass on this one.

[SteveA]

Paul
I wouldn't waste time calling the product tech because first of all they never work outside of their own products.  They may be able to tell you what their product is made out of but technique or practical experience from them is a stretch.  Better to speak with folks that are hands on -
SA

[MinUph]

Paul
I wouldn't waste time calling the product tech because first of all they never work outside of their own products.  They may be able to tell you what their product is made out of but technique or practical experience from them is a stretch.  Better to speak with folks that are hands on -
SA

I've had very good luck with Mohawks tech support. I use their products so maybe that is the reason.

[SteveA]

Paul they want to keep you using their products only.  They sell redundancy -  think about it - is it really necessary to have 50 different spray can colors  - with 6 different lusters - how about different  lacquers that are designed to spray low voc's - regular voc's - - pre-cat post cat - no orange peel - high humid conditions- - heavy bodied - on and on - and chances are the guy your speaking with isn't a finisher rather a chemist -
I do use many of their products and I'm not saying the products aren't good but they like to sell you more stuff then you'll ever need. 

The trouble with finishing is every shop condition, circumstance, and technique varies -  I still think an old timer looking over your shoulder is a better choice for trouble shooting -

SA

[baileyuph]

Response - this is not a high end solid wood piece, our market for such in recent times hasn't supported that.  Further it is not suspected to be a high quality wood veneer.  It very well can be something like a thin finish layer that the color is one that cannot be removed by conventional techniques.  Lot's to learn here, I understand.

From the picture the piece has a very thin veneer but the color (that the customer wants changed) has endured for its life very well. 

I agree what materials covering the piece needs understanding - what is the smartest low risk approach to determine that?

Finding an area or literally spot where one can try things like lacquer thinner?  or?

To start the learning process, if one could find a hidden area things could be tried without taking on high risk.  For example, it might be beneficial to try (on some hidden spot) a scrape test - it could start the learning process?

I am willing to look at the piece, spend a little time analyzing and doing the smart thing to learn what would be smart and "nothing" could turn out to be that - the smartest.

Questions raised are good ones, like what is the material, is it an applied finish or is it some kind of (for lack of better word and understanding) synthetic veneer.  I do not expect the finish materials in manufacturing the drawer fronts to be a high quality wood veneer of wood that can be finished and refinished like furniture of the past.

While I do not feel it is high end furniture, it does serve the customer well and in her opinion seem to be strong enough that it isn't giving them any problems, simply the color is the issue.

The questions raised, surely will be similar to anyone one selling lacquer spray materials - so I think we are on the right track.  If nothing is the logical outcome, learning that is a positive.

Thanks, and more comments are good.

Doyle

[SteveA]

Doyle
Still not sure what you're working with here so cautiously speaking -
You want to change the color ! - using a spray can ? - is that right ?

Mohawk sells a spray can nozzle for wide coverage -
Whatever the substrate is you're safe with light coats since full wet coats may cause the solvent to harm the original surface -
Clean thoroughly - light color coats from full cans for even coverage -
One top coat to add protection -  Don't build a heavy finish - stay thin and I think you'll be OK -

Explain to the customer that you only offer a finish warrantee when the piece is completely refinished - tweaking colors are at their own risk -
You're providing a service with the goal to save the customer quite a bit of money vs refinishing however they have to take some risk
SA

[baileyuph]

That is pretty much the thinking Steve, but only if chemically correct.  There didn't seem to be that much coloring to be done, pull the drawers (it is the fronts only that need attention) and generally speaking the top and two sides of the rest of the chest.

Maybe I will see the item next week, the customer seemingly just doesn't like the color but the chest seems to be doing the job.

If things are chemically correct, cleaning and putting a thin layer or two of spray lacquer on would please the owner.

But, one has to be smart.  Need to run a test to see how the new color will work and what the reactions are chemically.

If Mohawk has the answers and they are like us, they also need to know what is being worked on - the type of existing and materials. 

Right now, that seems to be the challenge on top of this. 

What would one even clean the surface with in a low risk fashion?

Just try a cleaner from Mohawk? 

Analysis and understanding seems paramount doesn't it?

Thanks,

Doyle

[SteveA]

I think chemically you're good to go using nitrocellulose lacquer.  Clean with naphtha and your last decision is whether to use a dye color or pigment color spray - Mohawk has a color chart and you can let your customer make the selection
SA