Fabric Wholesalers

[baileyuph]

Some have gone, not near as many call on me for furniture, auto, or marine needs.  So, wondering, for those left - how the future looks for them?

JoAnns sure goes after the market, specials repeatedly, but wonder how prosperity is for them or others like them?

Things have really changed over 10 years!

Doyle

[gene]

I'm seeing more Interior Designers having problems buying fabric. Homeowners can get the same fabric online or at JoAnns and other retailers for the same or cheaper price.

I think the exception is the high end new design fabrics.

I told the story before of a customer who I gave my wholesale price to. She found the same fabric at Joann's cheaper with a 40% discount. She then found the same fabric online cheaper than that, including shipping. It was shipped directly to me from a Robert Allen warehouse.

Yes, I get the constant coupons via email from Joanns. I don't know what their sales are like but I always thought constant couponing and constant discounts was a negative sign.

gene

[sofadoc]

.........but I always thought constant couponing and constant discounts was a negative sign.

I think it was J.C. Penney who recently experimented with eliminating all the phony promotional discounts, and just went with normal everyday pricing. It was a colossal failure. Their CEO was tarred and feathered.

The public wants to be duped into believing that they're getting a great deal on something.

They want to see that $100 price tag that has been reduced to $89 because of some silly coupon or other promotion.

What people don't understand is........ when they use a % off coupon at a place like JoAnns, that's the ONLY time they're paying regular price. The rest of the time they're overpaying.

[bobbin]

I recently complained to Ultrafabrics that customers were able to buy their wares for less money than I must pay to my wholesalers.  I was politely rebuffed and told they would send me the names of other wholesalers in my area (thanks a lot, guys!). 

I don't get it, at all.  How can an employee of an architectural firm qualify to buy the goods for $45/yd. when I'm expected to pay $75+/yd.?  What does an architectural firm (with no workroom of their own) do to get premium pricing when I'm denied the very same thing? 

[baileyuph]

In discussion with a few with marketing careers and this same scenario came up and it has been stated by some that it all comes down to volume.  Anyone can buy anything to resell if they buy a large volume.  The internet has enabled this to happen.

It is now frequent that someone will buy in volume and sell on the net to anyone cheaper than our wholesalers can sell to us. 

I admit my volume is lower than it has ever been, labor prices now are restructured to cover the business cost.  Not markup plus labor type of business anymore. 

Matter of fact, there is good and negative to both scenarios.   Not good for the smaller wholesalers who depended on smaller accounts like mine.  JoAnn's for example, now buys way more than wholesalers who for years serviced small business. It is all about volume.

The net has played a big part in setting this stage.

Doyle 

[Mojo]

I have reached the mark in fabric volume where I can buy directly from the fabric manufacturer and eliminate all middle men. But I buy in roll quantities and rarely buy cut yardage. That is where the difference is. I elected to stay with Miami as they have got me on some very good pricing schemes and I could never get the level of support from the manufacturers that I get from them. They have also held their prices steady for me for several years.

But in order to get some of these benefits you have to be a volume customer just like you guys stated. By volume I am talking about rolls of fabric at a time versus cut yardage as well as filling their coffers by using tons of high dollar Solarfix. I will sometimes re-stock and buy several rolls at a time and have had deliveries of fabric on pallets before. To be honest I would be pissed if I knew someone was buying 5 yards of Sattler for the same price of what I pay for 3 full rolls. It is much cheaper for them to ship a full roll versus having people measure, cut and then package 5 yards. Alot of my rolls come right from Sattler's warehouse. Miami has a hard time keeping some of my fabric in stock because I can burn through entire rolls so quickly. I clean them out of one color and then order again and that roll comes direct from Sattler to save time and shipping versus going to Miami's Jacksonville warehouse.

My annual purchases from Miami this year were way up there despite great pricing policies but then it all coincides with our sales which were up. Still when they sent me my history report I almost died at what I spent.

But I must say the service they provide me is second to none. Fabric support, warranty support, marketing support, industry contacts, sew in label support, warranty card support and on and on and on. They are real rock stars at customer service and have never failed me ever.

I have no idea how many yards the typical upholstery shop goes through in a year. Has anyone ever figured out how many yards of fabric they use per year ?

Chris

[sofadoc]

I have no idea how many yards the typical upholstery shop goes through in a year. Has anyone ever figured out how many yards of fabric they use per year ?

I sell about 100 yards a month. That number has been very consistent for the last several years. However, I haven't really kept track of the amount of COM fabric that I go through.

The furniture biz is different. I can't buy in large rolls because every job is different. So I don't have a problem with the fact that I don't get volume roll pricing.

What fries me though, is that I often don't even get a better price than a customer off the street. Some housewife is sitting in her easy chair with a laptop ordering fabric online and getting it for the same price that I pay through a so-called "wholesaler". You would think that a wholesale supplier would favor a shop that routinely buys $10K a year or more over a "one-time" customer.

[bobbin]

That's my beef, too, Sofa..

And I have the same issue with quantity.  Every boat is different... I can't buy a full roll of Ultaleather because I have no guarantee that I won't have to "sit on the stock" for months or years.  I simply can't tie up that much money... .  Maybe Hinkley and Sabre can, but I damn sure can't!

[baileyuph]

I can't buy a roll of routine requirements either and it frost me of the marketing scenario we discuss.  It isn't our wholesalers, from what I get, who are necessarily marketing through the net.  It is the humongous buyer who gets the best price by larger volume buying then sells on the net direct to the public.

My eye has been watching our wholesalers for whatever actions they may take?  Is Greenhouse Fabrics selling direct to the net?  If so, guess they are driven to the practice by these large buyers including JoAnn's.

Afraid we, small shops, are not going to win this one soon? 

Watching my time and labor rates, plus the com, is about my only defense.

Doyle

[bobbin]

The other thing that makes it tough for us, is that when it's time for a redo of upholstery/cushions the owner is usually interested in "something new".  I almost never get a customer who wants the work truly duplicated... same color, same technique. 

As DB points out, my only recourse is to keep good track of my labor and make sure my rate is sufficient to pay the bills.  My most frequently used wholesalers don't sell to the general retail public, but again, as DB points out there is nothing to stop big outfits from "freshening" their stock by turning it over via E-Bay or Craigslist. 

[Mojo]

I really do not know how ordering goes in regards to cut fabric for furniture. I can see though how impossible it would be to buy rolls and then sit on it for a long time or maybe run the risk of never using it.

In my world the colors never change. The manufacturers dictate the colors and they are using colors today that they were using back in the 90's. I have only seen two colors dropped from the lineup during my time in business. So when your burning through rolls of certain colors it is easy to buy roll yardage.

Miami gives me an annual report which details everything I bought, prices, etc. I glean that for trends and then order accordingly. I always stock 4 colors which seem to be the most popular in acrylic and also stock 3 colors in vinyl. Other colors I order as cut yardage, typically 10 - 16 yards at a time. I have been burnt before buying full rolls on certain colors and I still half 1/3 of that roll left. So I am careful on what I select.

Thankfully I do not have to deal with COM. They can buy it but I wont sew it. If they do talk me into it they sign an agreement that I am providing no warranty and they are responsible for any fabric failures. I have never had a OM before so it isn't an issue.

I regularly send customers to Miami's website because they only display full blown retail prices. You have to have an account with them in order to view the real prices. Customers see their retail prices and think I am a hero. :)

Have any of you ever run into customers who thought they were buying a high quality fabric but have actually bought counterfeit or second run stuff ? This happens in acrylics and some vinyls. The Chinese have done a good job of producing counterfeit acrylics. Sunbrella is the worse. Also, some acrylics are second run with alot of flaws and these make it to some of our suppliers. Every supplier has their own flaw policy. I believe Miami's is the toughest. Recacril, Sattler and the vinyl manufacturers sell direct to Miami. They cannot have no more then 3 small flaws per roll. Some suppliers have 6 and more. This is where the seconds go.

I have a very customer friendly warranty that is the longest term in my sector. I cannot afford to get seconds or flawed materials. Thankfully everything I get comes directly out of Sattler or Recacrils factory. Miami uses no brokers or middle men.

Chris

[sofadoc]

Have any of you ever run into customers who thought they were buying a high quality fabric but have actually bought counterfeit or second run stuff ?

I don't know about counterfeit, but definitely a lot of second-run stuff.

Much of the COM I get in doesn't have a finish coating. When a run of material fails inspection, they just bypass the final steps and send it out the "Back door".

These kind of fabrics wear out prematurely, and soil easily. I see this a lot on COM that came from places like JoAnns or newtoto.com.

[gene]

I had an ID get a great deal on the internet: Sunbrella fabric for $7.00 per yard.

It would not lay flat on my cutting table. Twisted and warped. You could see the warp and waft threads were not straight and you could not get them straight.

I'm convinced that was a China knockoff.

I chose not work with it and the ID understood.

But hey! It was only $7.00 per yard.

gene

[kodydog]

Have any of you ever run into customers who thought they were buying a high quality fabric but have actually bought counterfeit or second run stuff ?

Chris

Funny you should ask Chris. I worked for a place that stocked over 1500 bolts of fabric. Show room up front, workroom in the back. They bought only seconds and sold it all as firsts. They bought for $5 a yard off the back of a truck and sold it for $25 to $35 a yard. I often heard them warning customers about buying from their competition and telling them all their fabrics were firsts. But I knew better. It wasn't unusual to find a flaw running up the whole bolt or flaws running across the bolt every one or two yards. There were times I would start out with 45 yards of fabric for a sofa and by the time I finished cutting around the flaws I had whittled it down to the very end of the bolt. There were also times I ran out of fabric and had to put flawed fabric on the outside back or some other less conspicuous place.

They knew they were buying seconds and never bothered checking for flaws before adding it to inventory. Their markup was high enough to cover for any losses. Pity the person who came in to buy fabric only.

They kicked around the idea of on-line sales but I pointed out they had no idea of the manufacturer, The makeup of the fabric or double rub tests. They really had no idea what they were selling and if someone asked they would make it up as they went.

I used to send customers but after working there for two years I had to stop. My customers were complaining and I was the guy that wound up having to work with the stuff.

[Mojo]

I was warned along time ago NEVER buy fabric off the truck. Most of it is 2'nds and 3'rds that no legit supplier would put in their stock.

I was told that Glen Raven would spit out a bunch of flawed fabric and then load it all to be shipped to some 3rd world country. Instead it ended up getting into our system by back door channels. This is supposedly what is being sold off the back of trucks as well as E-Bay.

I got one full roll of Recacril fabric that had alot of flaws. I contacted Miami and they immediately replaced the entire roll for me and then went head hunting Recassens. They were PO'ed they got that roll from Spain and it made its way into their system. There was a big fuss over it behind closed doors and the next thing I know the head of Recacril in North America called me and apologized.

One place that sells alot of flawed stuff and actually markets it as seconds is Rochford. I have gotten some stuff from them years ago that I knew were seconds. I was using it for personal use ( grill cover, etc. ) That stuff was ugly and missing its finish like Dennis indicated. It lasted two years on the Florida sun and faded in 6 months.

Chris