Asian Hardwoods

[baileyuph]

Have you business people noticed how vulnerable Asian hadwood is?  Brittle and knotty.

Hardwoods from this continent are much better quality, I am sure it is primarily due to climate differences.

Doyle

[Mojo]

I am not sure, maybe Mike802 knows as he is a wood expert. But I believe the Chinese Oak is a different species all together as compared to our Oak.

I would put Chinese Oak ( in regards to density and strength ) just above our Southern Pine. It is no where near our Oak thats for sure.

I am pretty sure the China Oak is a complete different strain. I do not believe climate has anything to do with it. But I could be wrong. :)

Chris

[sofadoc]

Hey, we have brittle hardwoods too. We just normally use it to make forklift skids, crates, and such out of.
They use it to build furniture.

[byhammerandhand]

Yes, see it all the time.   I've seen backs on sofa frames that were dry rot, knots all the way through, etc.   Not much better on casegoods, especially if painted.   I mumble to myself, "Well, there's another piece of wood that should have been tossed into the scrap bin instead of in a piece of furniture."

There is no relationship by any wood species based on some marketing name

Malaysian oak = parawood, rubberwood (Hevea brasiliensis).    cf Oak = g. Quercus, member of family Fagaceae (see next)

Brazilian cherry = Jatoba  (genus = Fabaceae)    (black cherry = Prunus serotina) 


and so on.

[baileyuph]

There is a relationship of wood properties to climate.  To clarify, norther pine in this country is suitable for, and used for furniture framing because the pine there grows much slower than souther pine.  The slower it grows, the straighter, more uniform the grain is the general rule.  Souther pine does not make a good frame to upholster.

I looked this up and the reference showed that in the US, the best hardwoods grow up north and along the northeast coastal area. 

Wood grown in the deep south is more suitable for the paper industry and framing in building consruction, and other things of course but cabinet making woods are better suited from our northern regions.

What is the climate for the trees grown in Vietnam and that region.  The reason I ask is the hardwoods used in case goods there is terrible.  Is this due to climate?  I have understood it is.

Doyle

[kodydog]

I read an article last year that made me stop to ask why? It explained that most of the wood used in China built furniture is shipped from the US and Canada. In another word we ship it there, they build the furniture and then ship it back. That floors me. How can they pay all that shipping and still make it cheaper.

Then I found this article
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2011/06/wood-china

The ships going back to China are usually empty. So the cost of freight is half.

[gene]

I have been saying for years that my biggest concern is that a company will pick up a sofa from a home in my town, ship it to China to be reupholstered, and then ship it back to the customers' home, cheaper than what I can reupholster it in my studio.

I saw a documentary on a plant in Canada that makes fish sticks. They start with big blocks of frozen fish that they buy from China.  

gene

[byhammerandhand]

Yeah, that's fish, sure, that's the ticket, fish.

Just heard this afternoon with the horse meat debacle that one company was testing their "meat pies" to ensure it was beef.   What they found was, there was absolutely no meat at all in them .

I saw a documentary on a plant in Canada that makes fish sticks. They start with big blocks of frozen fish that they buy from China.  

gene

[byhammerandhand]

Worked on repairing a fairly expensive brand of chair (from Asia) this week.   Whatever the wood is, I've seen it before, not much structural strength.   Many of the mortise and tenon joints were broken.   What was fairly surprising was that the joinery seemed to be hand done, as I could see pencil layout lines.   What was not surprising was that many of the M&T joints were sloppy fitting.   On the joints that were not broken off tenons, I could see lots of glue on the tenons, but they made absolutely no contact with the mortise walls.    The round ends of the stretchers were only 1/8-1/4" into the inch deep holes on the posts.  Unfortunately, due to the arms and fitted seat, I could not really set them in any deeper in the re-glue.

[baileyuph]

Had a dining room table top with a problem yesterday, the top was some hardwood cut and assembled much like hardwoo floors, different lengths and the joins at random.

Problem was two boards have dried after assembly as evidenced by hair line fissures about five or six inches, small hair line cracks that is. 

The two small boards were not colocated and surrounding board do not show cracks.

Obviously one would have to fill the fissues and deal with the delicate task of doing the touch up in an acceptable manner.

What was interesting, the guy thought all one had to do was get some glue in the crack and set a couple large clamps to close the separation.  I just said, "I don't think so".

Where ever the wood came from it had a percent moisture content problem during assembly. 

I decided it was low profit and turned the job down.  My thinking was the splitting probably wasn't over, more to come in other wood parts of the table.  Don't know but suspect a full replacement table top would cost less than $100 shipped.

Problems like described are becoming more frequently spotted.


The furniture was made in Vietnam, where do you suppose the wood came from?  Also, wouldn't the wood be processed and kiln dried there to save cost? 

Doyle

[mike802]

Most of the Asian Hardwood I have experience with has come from repairing Asian Furniture and It is very different from native hardwoods.  It does not have the same strength and although it may be called oak, etc the grain structure is very different, if I didn't know better, I would almost say it was manufactured wood and I think most often the species is named for the finish applied.  They probably use the cheapest junk wood they can get away with spray an oak colored finish on it, pat themselves on the back saying "those dumb Americans, ha ha ha" 

In America today we have to pay anywhere from 10.00 to 20.00 bucks an hour for skilled labor, but the Asians can work for far less.  Our government has not only allowed this to happen they encouraged it and wrote laws offering incentives to companies who participated in this treason.

[byhammerandhand]

I see a lot of parawood, aka rubberwood, aka Malaysian Oak, Hevea brasiliensis.

It's common to see this on low end furniture, especially in the manner you described.  I got my eldest grandsons a play table from IKEA and it was this, and it did crack. 

While it has a low coefficient of expansion/shrinkage, it is often worked quite wet.

The other laughable name is jatoba, aka "Brazilian Cherry"    Suffice it to say, neither of these has acorns or cherries, respectively.

[baileyuph]

The wood moisture you pointed out surely explains another finish problem I see;  lacquer finish (dark/black) where the finish is cracking.

Also, I have noted the shading of the finish is not consistent, all probably related to wood moisture content during manufacturing.

All this "low information buzz" in the news today surely applies to consumers.  But, often it seems consumers are repeated told about low priced furniture not having much quality. 

They just do not get it!

Another thing that bothers me having to work on the loose joints of this furniture.  The hardware, particularly the threaded nuts in the wood will not stay tight long.  I have had customers who split the wood tightening these nuts. 

I suppose this gives the Asian manufacturers a few more grins!

Sometimes I think plywood is stronger, but will be very heavy.

Doyle

[baileyuph]

Quick comment;  I have noted in imported Asian wood products that come of the framing members are replacing wood with hard molded plastic.  I noticed this in a rather expensive wood bedframe that was brought to me for repair (brand new BTW).

Any comments from the wood workers on this?  Mike 802 or hammer, or?  The plastic seems stronger or as strong as the typical cheap wood, the impression I got was wood is quality in their manufacturing system is so questionable the plastic is an upgrade.

The plastic could warp under temp and pressure (load) and where screws are involved; the holes in plastic could quickly become enlarged.  

Bottom line, the hard plastic looks as strong as wood, I suppose, and may be preferred over wood of a very low standard.  This adds a new dimension:  Asian plastic!

Doyle

[mike802]

Doyle:  I haven't had the opportunity to come across the plastic you mention, but you might be on to something.  Anyway it will be difficult, it at all possible to repair and end up sitting in a landfill for 100s of years.  People just love a  "green" product when it's cheap and disposable, but shy away from a true green product that last for generations and is repairable. I think they call it cognitive dissonance.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In modern psychology, cognitive dissonance is the discomfort experienced when simultaneously holding two or more conflicting cognitions: ideas, beliefs, values or emotional reactions