Tack Driver

[sofadoc]

There is a "handle" about 3/4" x 1" x 1/4"  in the center.   Out both ends is a split arm about 1/4" x 1/4" with different size holes in it.

Then I tried to find it on the internet.   The only ID on it is DBGM - a search on this gets "Depressed Black Gay Men"

Maybe if their nailheads were straighter, then black gay men wouldn't be so depressed? :-\

[Rich]

I must have missed this post when I posted mine. Just curious, how much time could the Uffy tool save? Base it on say, one foot of nails.
Rich

[sofadoc]

Just curious, how much time could the Uffy tool save? Base it on say, one foot of nails.

Good question. I'd love to try one of those bad boys. But I'm looking at $600 for the nailer, and probably another $400 for an air compressor that puts out 7 SCFM. Plus, I'm not sure just how helpful it would be on delicate antiques (which account for more than half of the nailhead jobs that I do).

[Steve at Silverstone Fabrics]

I was asked by a company in Hickory, NC to use and evaluate one of these guns and here are my findings:

• The swirling motion would scratch the nails that were twirling around the canister waiting their turn to be forced into the nail slot
  It was an "air hog"..........you need an extremely large tank to keep it fed
  It drove nails into poplar wood with out any problem but maple was a different story
  In order to become very proficient, there is a very steep learning curve.........you had to keep your hammer at the ready to "tap" the nails where you wanted to go
  
  My report concluded that it was a great idea but it was not worth the money or the time invested. Steve

[sofadoc]

I've been quite interested in that nailer, but apprehensive as well. Terry's observations confirm some of my apprehensions. PLUS, I hadn't thought about the swirling motion scratching the heads.

But something occurs to me. So for the sake of argument, let's say for a moment that the nailer works to perfection.

Let's say that it reduces a 3 hour "hand driven" nail job to 30 minutes. And let's say that you have a shop labor rate of $50 hr.
Are you going to charge your customer $125 less?

This is why I don't charge an hourly labor rate. I simply charge what I think the job is worth, regardless of how long it takes (or doesn't take).

Small shops are always wishing that labor-saving factory equipment could be made affordable to them. But what's the point of streamlining your production if it only reduces your billable hours? 

[Rich]

I've been quite interested in that nailer, but apprehensive as well. Terry's observations confirm some of my apprehensions. PLUS, I hadn't thought about the swirling motion scratching the heads.

But something occurs to me. So for the sake of argument, let's say for a moment that the nailer works to perfection.

Let's say that it reduces a 3 hour "hand driven" nail job to 30 minutes. And let's say that you have a shop labor rate of $50 hr.
Are you going to charge your customer $125 less?

This is why I don't charge an hourly labor rate. I simply charge what I think the job is worth, regardless of how long it takes (or doesn't take).

Small shops are always wishing that labor-saving factory equipment could be made affordable to them. But what's the point of streamlining your production if it only reduces your billable hours?  

Why should it reduce your billable hours? Do you mean that every time you are able to reduce the hours that go into a job, you lower your price? I see the extra profit from keeping the labor price the same as the reward for becoming more efficient.
Now, if all of your competitors buy that tool also and they lower their price, then you may have to follow suit to some extent.
Rich

[sofadoc]

Why should it reduce your billable hours? Do you mean that every time you are able to reduce the hours that go into a job, you lower your price? I see the extra profit from keeping the labor price the same as the reward for becoming more efficient.

I don't charge by the hour anyway, so technically, I benefit from any tool or method that reduces my completion time. I'm just speaking hypothetically.

Hypothetical example #1......... A sofa with nailheads that takes 20 hrs. to complete.
Hypothetical example #2......... Same sofa now only takes 17.5 hrs. thanks to the Uffy nailer.

Haven't you reduced your billable hours for that sofa by 2.5? Of course, one might argue that you now have an extra 2.5 hrs. to start the next job.

Just trying to explain why I don't charge by the hour. But we all do whatever works best for us.

[Rich]

[quoteHaven't you reduced your billable hours for that sofa by 2.5? Of course, one might argue that you now have an extra 2.5 hrs. to start the next job.

Just trying to explain why I don't charge by the hour. But we all do whatever works best for us.
][/quote]

I don't think I'd use the term "billable hours" b/c that's what you would use if you WERE charging by the hour. I never communicate my hours to the customer, I price, like you, by the job. I do, from time to time, keep track of my hours so I know where I stand with my time. If I didn't do that, I might continue to price based on an old time that may no longer be accurate for some reason. I use my hours to help me arrive at a price, but time isn't the only factor I use. That's why I say that if my time goes down, with all else being equal, my price stays the same and I realize more profit. The tool has to be paid for with that extra income and like I said, it's the reward I get for investigating and taking a risk with my money. Sometimes, I can lower the time by rethinking a process. That takes time and effort and any (sometimes there's no gain) reduction in time pays off in more income by keeping the price the same. Anyway, that's the way I see it.
Rich

[Peppy]

We do a lot of 'time and materials' work. Maybe 60% quotes and 40% hourly. This is due to the goofy jobs we get. Standard jobs we get a lot of are quote with no mention of time. Weird jobs we're unsure of are hourly. Anytime we become 'too efficient' we raise our hourly rate. We do the same job faster but for the same (or a little more) pay. 

I think if we had a tool like this we'd have a flat rate charge for tacks. Maybe by the foot? We'd make it affordable and we'd push tacks on anyone that came in. "That dentist chair would look great with hammered tacks. So would that tractor seat!"

We have a stand up air grommeter that was purchased for a contract. Never would have bought it otherwise but now we can sell installed grommets for ¢.25 and still make more than our hourly rate on big jobs.

[sofadoc]

Rich: OK, I understand your point of view. It sounds like you and I have the same thought process when figuring our rates.

But I know some upholsterers who log their exact time on a piece, and charge a flat rate shop fee accordingly.

But regardless of what formula we use to arrive at our final price, technically we all factor our time in to that amount.
So whether we phrase it that way or not, I guess "When you get right down to brass tacks" (pun intended :D), we all charge by the hour.   

[baileyuph]

Another way to say the same thing is; there is a market out there for just about everything a shop will do.  So.............if a tool, at a cost, will enable a shop to save time and they do enough of it, then profits will go up, so will your realized average hourly pay, call it rate.

Example whether I drive tacks with a hammer or air staple, the project cost is what is within the market and we all know which method is faster.  So, this thinking applies to the stapler or decorative tack driver, in discussion, buy it if it can be used a signficant enough amount.  But, what about the scratching the tack heads?  Maybe that problem is fixed?

If I had one job a week requiring, say 50 tacks or more, and it didn't scratch the heads, then I would buy the tool.  I need the larger compressor anyway for auto work.  Sounds like the nailer would pay for itself fairly fast, potentially.  

Doyle

[sofadoc]

If I had one job a week requiring, say 50 tacks or more, and it didn't scrare the heads, then I would buy the tool.  I need the larger compressor anyway for auto work.  

Over half of the time now, when a job comes into MY shop with nailheads, it leaves with double cording (customer's preference). So, I only go through about 3 boxes (1000 per box) a year. That's an average of 58 tacks per week. I can easily install 58 tacks with a hammer in 10 minutes.

If you figure 3000 tacks per year at a rate of 5 tacks per minute, that's about 10 hours per year that I spend installing tacks. Or 12 minutes per week. Realistically, even if the Uffy nailer performed ideally (and we HAVEN'T established that it does) how much time would it shave off of that?

If it sounds like I'm trashing the Uffy tool, I'm not. We should try to support any products that are advertised on this website. I just think that it's geared for shops that are bigger than most of us on this discussion board. I think that I would have to be doing at least 250 tacks per week to justify the cost.

But I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to tools like that one. Even if I don't really need it, I'd still like to have one.

[baileyuph]

The tack driver would be good for my shop, I too have done double welt by hinting to the customer to go that way, but given a driver like this I wouldn't make as much welt.  Welt would take longer than using the driver. 

As far as the tool paying for itself the issue is deeper, one has to look at the total picture including tax write offs and tax rate.  I need the tax write off, my CPA indicates I need write offs.  I could live off the taxes I pay. ;)

More importantly, wish someone would come on line who has used the tool, this scratching the tack heads would kill the whole idea anyway, if true.

Doyle

[zanepurcell]

Do any of you ever use the continuous tack strip stuff that has four fake heads and one real nail hole? (with the metal between the fake nail heads). I never thought it looked professional
Zane

[gene]

I've never used the tack strip stuff. I think it looks fake.

I don't remember who said this, other than his name starts with a T, and he may have been on Carrscorner, ,many years ago. He said to take a tack hammer and practice putting in decorative tacks. He talked about the angle your wrist needs to make in conjunction with the angle of the tack hammer. I practiced with an old box of decorative tacks.

Anyway, like most folks on this board, I've gotten good enough, and fast enough, that I don't mind using dec tacks. If dec tacks take a bit more time than the tack strip stuff I think it's well worth it.

gene