Got to decide between 2 Jukis

[AvaBird]

Hi again-

I'm still looking for that elusive used walking foot machine :-\

I found a Juki LU-563 at a dealer and a Juki DNU-1541S from a private party. They both come with motor, table and head in good working order. Each are $1200.

Anybody familiar with either model? I would rather ask first than make a $1200. mistake.

Thanks again,

Teresa

[sofadoc]

The 563 is about $300 too high IMO. The 563 was replaced by the 1508 at least 10 years ago (maybe more).
The 1541......depends on how old it is. Might be a good deal if it's fairly new.
Both are great machines.
Mojo has been very happy with his Chandler. You can get a brand new Chandler cheaper than that used 563.

[AvaBird]

Sofadoc-

I took your suggestion and canned the 563. The 1541 was bought a year and a half ago by the seller, who has a cottage business making one-of -kind backpacks. Says he has used it primarily for sewing cordura and leather and has to sell it because he's moving back to Colorado from Boston.

I'll test drive it tomorrow.  I would typically opt to buy from a dealer but this may just work out.

I appreciate your input:)

Teresa

[bobbin]

I wouldn't pay more than $500 for a Juki 563.  Even in pristine conditon.  Times change and so do machines.  There is no "antique value" in a Juki 5

I think the price for the 1541 is fair, but no "deal".  Clutch or Servo motor?  If the machine is "cherry" (and Servo) and you have extra needles and spare bobbins/presser feet, a parts book and operator's manual take it and run.  If not, keep your cash in your pocket and haggle.  Esp. if it's a clutch motor!

[sofadoc]

I wouldn't pay more than $500 for a Juki 563.

I agree. But finding a rebuilt 563 from a dealer for less than $900 can be tough.
I also agree that $1200 for a 2 year old 1541 isn't anything to write home about.
But if it comes with extra goodies, it might be more enticing.

Teresa: I guess by now you've already test driven it. How'd it go?

[Mojo]

Theresa:

Kodydog and I each bought a 563 for $ 400. We are both very happy with them. For $ 1,200 Bob Kovar can deliver a brand new Chandler to your door ready to sew. That includes table, servo motor, etc.

I am extremely happy with my Chandler and it is my main machine. The Juki is my back up and also set up to sew polyrod into awnings. The great thing about both of these machines is that the attachments are interchangeable. I can swap feet, bobbins, etc.

Get in touch with Bob and talk with him about a Chandler. See if he has any used machines around as well. $ 1,200 for a used 563 is way over the top.

Chris

[AvaBird]

Thanks everyone..
I canned the 563 (bobbin- the seller on that was Sloan Machinery).
I also passed on the Juki 1541 - more than I wanted to spend from a private party and he only gave me until today to drive up to Boston, check it out and transport it back home.

I spoke briefly to Bob on Saturday and need to call him back today. We talked about a used machine w/o a reverse, which doesn't bother me at all. I learned how to sew from my grandmother when I was 6 yrs. old on her industrial Singer- no reverse and the loudest motor I've ever heard.

Which brings me to my next conundrum....servo vs. clutch. Besides the Servo being quiet and perhaps an energy saver, isn't a clutch easier to customize for the intended user. I've read that servos don't last as long and even though they have a 'speed dial',  they lose alot of power on the slow speed settings.

I guess it's no secret now that I tend to over-analyze  things.

I also need a new compressor but I've already chosen that ......after days of research  :-\

Mojo- Why did you choose the Chandler?

Teresa

[sofadoc]

I haven't noticed a loss in power with a servo at any speed. Clutch motors typically last more than 20 years. How long will these sub-$150 servos last? Not sure. I've had mine going on 3 years now. If they crapped out tomorrow, I'd still get another servo.
But if I went to work tomorrow in a shop full of clutch motors, I'd have no trouble re-adapting. One thing I learned though, I can't go back and forth from clutch to servo.

If you WERE prepared to pay $1200 for one of those used machines, I think you'd be happier spending close to that amount on a later model machine WITH reverse.
Wait for Mojo to chime in about the Chandler. I also remember Jack Carr saying that the Chandler will "do everything a Pfaff 1245 will do".

[Mojo]

I have always sewn with a servo motor. For me they are smoother and I can control my work and speed more precisely. If you have never sewn on a commercial machine then you will find there is a learning curve associated with clutch motors. Many new sewers have problems with their jack rabbit starts. I sewed horribly on my Juki until I switched it to a servo. For others who have sewn on nothing but clutch motors they prefer those.

The reason I selected the Chandler was because it was  1.) a bottom load machine 2.) has a covered bobbin assembly ( ask Bob about this ) 3.) attachments are plentiful and very cheap 4.) is a big M bobbin machine and 5.) has a good reputation. They are built very well, are reliable, parts are everywhere and they will sew anything you throw at it.  I still have not found anything it wont sew. It is not finicky with thread and I have sewn with every kind of thread you can think of with it from Tenara to 69 to 90 to 138 polys. It will also handle 207 as well.

I think the main reason why I bought it is because of Bob's recommendation. I laid everything out on the table for him and asked him which model he would select knowing I was on a budget, could not afford any downtime and wanted numerous attachments. He cut the list down to 2 - a Consew and the Chandler and basically said " the Chandler will do everything the Consew will but at a cheaper price ". There are a couple of us who have bought these Chandlers and we have had awesome luck with them.

I appreciated Bob's honesty with me. Many times dealers try and push a machine they got a good buy on and have a bigger margin with which is why they sell the heck out of certain models. Bob took a great deal of time explaining all the differences to me and for that I was grateful. His after the sale service has been phenomenal as well. He is always there for me whenever I have a question or issue.

In regards to the Consew and Chandler, have Bob tell you the funny story of the two brothers sometime. One owns Consew and the other owns Chandler. Pretty funny how the two cannot stand each other and wont speak to each other at trade shows. :)

Chris

[JuneC]

Well, I just ordered a brand new Highlead from Gregg at Keystone.  He's got a great price on the walking foot with large bobbin.  Probably the same basic machine as Mojo's Chandler, but Gregg said he liked Highlead better.  I have no experience with either so went with Gregg's advice.  I'll let you all know how I like it when it gets here and I get to use it for a bit.  The servo motor it comes with will be a brand new experience for me.  I have 3 clutch driven machines and they're all a little different, but I can control them pretty well.  In 7 years I've only run a finger through the works twice.  :-\  No permanent damage and I've decided not to do that again. 

Stay tuned...

June

[Mojo]

I think you will like the servo June. I like the speed adjustment of them myself. I can dial it down to real slow when doing tough corners and turn it up when I am doing long stitch runs.

There are many people out there who have used nothing but clutch motors and they sew perfect with them. But I believe these are the stitchers that grew up and learned on clutch motors. I myself learned on a servo so I found the clutch motor a real headache for me. I just could not get good control using one.

I know nothing about the Highleads. I know Greg sells alot of them. I nearly bought one myself and was just about to pull the trigger on one but ended up getting the Chandler. I personally believe that most of the big industrial machines are all made well. Alot of times it comes down to the budget. :)

I have so many different feet that I would have gone broke duplicating them all. Thankfully the feet I have for my Chandler also works on my Juki. I know there were two machines I didn't want and those were Adler and Pfaff. Both are probably the best machines going but parts and attachments are outrageous.

If I had it to do all over again I would buy another Chandler. The machine has just been flawless. The only problems I have had I created myself. :)

Chris

[baileyuph]

This might require an answer from Bob Kovar or a vendor of equipment; question is:

In this discussion it has been said that an older machine like a Juki 563 would be less favored over a newer machine, even perhaps a new Chandler or Highlead.  So, could someone with a profound understanding lay out the technology advantages of the new machines from China over the Juki 563 made in Japan technology?

This is a technology based question.  Has the technology of the needle feed walking foot machine evolved to be superior in China products?

Are the China machines made as "knock off" technology or are they made from their own evolving technology that is superior to the Juki 563?

If I am correct, the Juki is a top vertical axis bobbin while the China machines are horizontal axis bottom loading bobbins, that could be a preference, I understand.  But the technology and intrinsic value of he machine is what I mean my question to be centered on.

If I am correct again, do the China made (assembled?) machines literally use the same feed as the the Juki 563? 

To further put things into perspective, the needle feed walking foot technology goes back years, somewhere to late 40's and if new machines today are still using the feed Singer equipped the 111W155/156, are they indeed copying the technology.  Therefore, where is the age of the Juki 563 a negative?  It could be a positive if the technology is the same or even better with the medal they used back then, do you understand where I am coming from.  Age, then is not an issue, condition can be an issue with any machine.

I would like to hear Bob or Gregg or?, to talk to this, it would be interesting reading.  Maybe some are talking new machines because they are so popular priced, coming from China assembly points?  I am not sure if China makes the parts for their machines, may do, at least they assemble the products.  In closing if the push for China machines is due to price then, I understand the merits of what is being suggested.  Then, intuitively, I can assume it isn't because the machines are intrinsically better. The Juki products have carried a lot of respect all through my times.

In response, please hit on the notes; price, technology, and anything else that applies.  I understand the condition aspect.

Interesting reading BTW,

Doyle

[sofadoc]

I'm not sure exactly when Juki dropped the 563 model and replaced it with the 1508. But I sewed for years with a 562, which I assume the only difference (from a 563) is bobbin size.
Once I got my 1508, the first thing that I noticed is that it would do about 3 stitches per inch at the widest setting, whereas my old 562 would do no better than 4.5 SPI. Did the later model 563's have more stitch length? I don't know.

My only concern for someone like Teresa buying a 563, is that it is more than likely at least 25 years old. And you have no way of knowing whether or not it has been properly maintained during that time.

But other than improved stitch length, a 25 year old Japanese Juki that has been well taken care of just might be a better machine than a brand new Chinese version of the same model. Although I sometimes wonder if the whole "poor Chinese quality" thing is just a bandwagon that we've all jumped on. We said the same thing about Japanese products in the 60's. Now we yearn for the good old days when stuff was made in Japan.

[Mojo]

I am not a machine expert. I sew with them and if something goes wrong I fix it myself.

I personally believe the Juki 563 is a better machine ( Japanese made ) then the other models like the Chandler or Highlead. If memory serves me correctly there are only a couple machines being made in Japan anymore. Almost all production has been shipped to China. Even the German machines are being produced there now as Pfaff sent production there two years or so ago.

I bought my Juki cheap ( $ 400 ). That was complete with table and a new clutch motor. I am not a fan of top loaders myself but the Juki is an amazing sewer.

If you look at some of the machines, many look identical to one another. The only difference on some models tends to be paint and badging. It would not surprise me a bit to learn that many of the different machines are made on the same line.

I have forgotten which models are knock offs of other models but I know that many of the parts are interchangeable. A needle bar for one machine will fit on 10 different others. I bent the needle bar on my machine by accident and Bob sold me a needle bar designed for a Singer. It was a direct replacement. Feet are interchangeable on the Juki, Consew, Seiko and Chandler as are several of the attachments.

I could be wrong but I believe most industrial machines are now made in China and many are made in the same area. Maybe Greg or Bob can lend some knowledge here.

Chris

[Toledo Mach. Sales]

Ok,I'll voice my opinion.I feel the 563 is still a good machine & would say that one in good condition(not from a factory) should be worth $800.00+ because the 1508 that replaced it now sells for over $2,000.00.
Yes,the Juki is a copy of the old Singer 111w just a larger bobbin & reverse.
There's an uph shop just down the street from us & they've been in business for 40+yrs doing auto uph & just got a machine w/rev in 5 yrs ago.They've been using the old 111w & there's another shop in town that does furniture uph that has the old Singer 16 Class walking foot(they have 3 ) one has been their since day one 60 yrs ago & it came from the Jeep plant here in Toledo.They use each machine everyday w/o rev.So you really don't need all the bells & whistles to get the job done.
Yes,almost all the machines are made in China alot even from the same factory that will put any name on them you want.
Bob