chargeing for materials

[bobbin]

I have been good about entering the many notions/supplies/materials in my book keeping system.  It was kind of tedious at first, but now I'm glad I did it; makes invoicing easy (although I'm still slow at it).  I have a couple of questions about how you charge for upholstery materials;  1/4 deck padding, and the thicker padding (looks like cotton, but is polyester, I think).  Do you charge by the foot or the inch? how?

I price welting and zipper chain by the foot and foam by the inch.  But I'm curious how you price the other items. 

[Eric]

I charge by the yard for zipper as that is how I purchase it. Strataglass I charge for whole sheet even if customer only needs half. Who knows how long till I use the rest of sheet.

[kodydog]

With furniture we don't invoice for all the different supplies we use on each job. But rather lump it all together with the over head. That is except for things like foam or fabric which are expensive and differ from job to job. You could go crazy trying to measure and invoice all the welting and zipper you would need for each job.

Over the years we have come up with an average hourly over head price to charge for each piece which includes utilities, rent and car payments, supplies, ect.

When it comes to foam we buy by the slab. We usually figure three cushions per slab. So a chair would be 1/3 slab and price accordingly. For other jobs we charge by the board foot. Your supplier should be able to tell you the formula for board foot calculations.

Its good to keep accurate records of supplies bought. Soon you will be able to come up with an average over head fee. For me its about $5 an hour. A Sofa that takes 20 hours to build would take $100 for over head. This fee is included in the labor fee and not listed separately on the invoice.

[sofadoc]

I do it similar to Kody. I don't detail each and every supply item on the invoice. I only list material, labor, and foam. I don't want to give the customer too much to think about.
I knew another upholsterer in town who did it that way. Pretty soon, his customers were furnishing their own thread, cording, zipper, etc.

[byhammerandhand]

Thus the difference between charging for it and calling it out as line items on an invoice.

With furniture we don't invoice for all the different supplies we use on each job. But rather lump it all together with the over head. That is except for things like foam or fabric which are expensive and differ from job to job. You could go crazy trying to measure and invoice all the welting and zipper you would need for each job.

...

Its good to keep accurate records of supplies bought. Soon you will be able to come up with an average over head fee. For me its about $5 an hour. A Sofa that takes 20 hours to build would take $100 for over head. This fee is included in the labor fee and not listed separately on the invoice.

[bobbin]

My father was a plumbing and heating contractor.  He always said, "you never lose money with 'stock and time'".  I've never forgotten that; and I recall his meticulous accounting for runs of tubing and all the fittings when he'd bid a job.  That's why I've opted to enter my notions/supplies as seperate items, that way I can track the quantities I use and control the prices I charge for them.  I do a tremendous variety of work in my shop (drapery, slipcover, marine/awning canvas, and a little upholstery stuff) and a lot of repair work, I know what I want to make per hour and all other required items are charged to the job with the mark-up I wish to make on them.  I was wondering how you guys deal with it in your own shops, thanks for your answers and thoughts on the subject.  

I am going to stick with my present plan for the time being and I'll report back how it's workin' for me.  

[sofadoc]

I am going to stick with my present plan for the time being and I'll report back how it's workin' for me.

Do you give the customer an invoice with all the little incidentals listed seperately? It seems like the bill on some jobs would be as long as one from the hospital after an open heart surgery. :D
If I gave a long detailed bill to some of my customers around here, they'd probably call the police. :o

Obviously, your way is the definitively correct way. I'm just too lazy to keep up with all that stuff. I just figure a flat rate for supplies into my labor charge.
As it is now, a lot of my customers have the "brilliant" suggestion that I reuse their old zipper in order to save them some money.

[bobbin]

Yup, that's what I do!

I spent some time figgerin' out prices and my mark up but once I had it done all I had to do was plug in the numbers and hit "send/print" and it was done.

I charge for my labor, the materials required, and the taxes are tallied.  Wicked easy!  Don't get me wrong, I've had to crunch some numbers to get the correct price, but once it's done, it's done!

It may come back to bite me in the ass, but for now... I'm "good with it".

[MinUph]

Hey bobbin,
  Merry Christmas to you!
  I don't want to sound like I'm better at YOUR business but you wanted comments. There is nothing wrong with tracking everything you put into a job in fact its good business. Inventory comes to mind. Line items on an estimate is not in my opinion. It is just confusing and opens the gates for "reuse my zippers" kinda thing. I would say do what your doing but on the paperwork to the client just give them a price for labor, materials. You can add whats included but not as line items with pricing for each line item.
  Have fun.
  And...
  HAPPY NEW YEAR

[kodydog]

As it is now, a lot of my customers have the "brilliant" suggestion that I reuse their old zipper in order to save them some money.

Zippers are easy. My customers want me to reuse the welting ???

[mike802]

I use Bobbins method in my final invoice, but for estimates, I use a shop charge.  A shop charge is an estimated amount for materials for each different piece, over the years I have acquired a reasonably good average.  Charging for each item is easy once you have the program set up and it has helped me to properly price my goods and services.  Surprisingly the list usually does not come out that long for individual pieces of furniture.  I find that it helps justify my asking price, occasionally I get people who ask about using their zippers over, but once I explain to them the extra labor in involved in removing the zipper is more costly than the new one, they don't have a problem with it.  Quick Books also keeps track of my inventory, I still have to do a physical count at years end, but this information helps me know what items I move more than others, I can now buy them in bulk, thus saving time and adding extra income because I can get better prices.  I usually sell the items in the same way I buy them, cotton and horsehair by the pound, yard goods by the yard and so on.  Some items such as decorative tacks I charge by the inch.  I have keep track of how long it takes me to install decorative tacks then I charge for the labor and the amount of tacks it takes to do a length, or run and then just divide down into the inch.  At the end of the year I have a detailed list of items bought and sold, it really helps come tax time.  Don't get me wrong, I do not count staples, or tacks, or length of sewing thread, these items are listed under overhead, buttons? yes I charge per. button.  Spring up twin can easily be charged for by weigh, weigh the spool before and after tying springs to get the amount sold.

It really gets my gander up when people try to nickel and dime their upholster, when was the last time they followed their plumber around and asked him to reuse a valve or something, why do people continue to do this, because we let them.  Maybe I'm just crazy, but I actually think upholsters are skilled artist and deserve to make a profit on their items and labor.  Maybe I should change my handle to Crazy Mike.  LOL  I am not knocking other peoples system, it it works for them, great, but if I picked my car up from the mechanic and the invoice just listed one lump sum called "parts" I would be more than a little suspicious.

[sofadoc]

if I picked my car up from the mechanic and the invoice just listed one lump sum called "parts" I would be more than a little suspicious.

I just pulled my last truck repair bill from my local mechanic. It listed 2 items.
1) LABOR
2) PARTS

We're more "laid back" in Texas ;)

Seriously though. If I gave my customer an itemized invoice with items like spring twine on it, they'd tell all their friends "DON'T go there! That guy charges extra for everything!"
Most of my customers leave the invoice laying on the counter when they pick up their furniture. They just write me a check, and go.

[kodydog]

Your right mike, everyone has to invoice the way they feel comfortable.
The thing I find funny with automotive repairs is they will mark up their parts 4 times and make their labor look like their only making $5 an hour.

That might not be a bad idea. On a cushion we could charge $50 for the zipper. $40 for the welt. $40 for new Dacron. And do the labor for free. When a customer calls we could say the labors free but the parts are $90 how soon can you bring it by.  :D

[mike802]

Sofadoc and Kodydog, I think it is interesting how people in different locations can have very different expectations on how they are charged.  In my parts, people want to make sure they are getting their moneys worth and expect an itemized list of just what was used and what they were charged for and don't be surprised if they check and make sure what they were charged for was actually used.  After a couple return visits, they tend to be not so interested and are more trusting that they received the value they paid for.  I am lucky to live in an area where we have mostly honest mechanics, but my sister who lives 4 hours away in Boston the opposite is the rule.  Her husband is constantly bringing his car up here and either going over it his self, or double checking to make sure the work was actually done.  On more than one occasion he was told he needed work done, he would bring his car up here to do the work only to find out it was not needed.

[kodydog]

Around here Its very hard to find not only honest but competent mechanics. You would think if you took it to the dealer you'd be alright. Took my van in for its 30K mile maintenance. The guy at the desk said it would be $350. I started to laugh and asked, what the heck are you going to do. He started to say something about taking the top half of the engine apart. I said, wait. Got out my scheduled maintenance book and showed him what I wanted done. About $100 worth of work. The van is now long out of warranty and I do most repairs and maintenance myself.