how many hours

[Ihavenoname]

Bonehead, what about when you went to zip up the cushion cover, you found that you had forgotten to put the zipper pull on the !#@$ zipper. Need to add a few more minutes maybe?

Not that I have ever done that.

gene

Zipper glide. Add 1 hour 32 minutes and 11 seconds.

[Ihavenoname]

June I tried cutting a roll of vinyl once I used my chopsaw it has a metal cutting wheel I used it to cut pipe but it made a nice cut on the vinyl kinda burne the cardboard tube 

With thinking it over more, I wish there was a table you could put a yard of fabric on and it could cut out x number of welts. Or adjust it to cut boxing.

What makes upholstery so difficult is time. We still cut fabric, sew fabric, staple, and so forth pretty much how it has been done for about 50 years.

As in most industries there has been some kind of technological advantage. Upholstery is still a very labor and skill dependent job and business. Am I just missing something? It just takes so much time and I'm not 23 anymore and able to work full bore all day every day.  The last innovation I can think of is the Pneumatic staple gun.
Still so labor centered to do a great job.

[Ihavenoname]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing

I did not read the whole article but I know enough about economics to fill in the gaps.

I can go on for hours on this.

Lean Manufacturing and the pursuit of "Value."

Here comes a tangent. Sorry I'm just made this way.
Yes a bit over the top, but I don't mean to harm just express a fight and frustration.

I have been beating my head on that one for over 18 years when I first started studying business and marketing.

Yes, how do you create value for your customer other then price, which is what most new furniture stores are doing today?

Pretty much any good upholsterer can win the quality game and add real value to an older well made frame, but how do you explain and line up that value with cheap?

Again, I have been beating my brains out with this question for years.

If people really know the value of what is sold today as a sofa or chair,  and how it is designed to last 3 to 5 year and replaced in 5 to 7 what would happen?

I've done my best to educate but most people don't understand until 3 to 5 years after they buy that sofa and tossed out the well made 1950s sofa because $2500 was crazy when they can buy one for $1200 new. Is the e really a big difference they may ask themselves.

We know there is. 

Value of cheap and buy now pay later.

OK I'm done.

Thank you.

[fragged8]

With thinking it over more, I wish there was a table you could put a yard of fabric on and it could cut out x number of welts. Or adjust it to cut boxing.

I've often thought that a set up like a draftsmans drawing board that has a parallel rule and a sliding knife along the rule would work
it would make cutting welt and boxing a breeze.

http://www.graphicsdirect.co.uk/products/classic-drawing-board

Rich

[gene]

What makes upholstery so difficult "to make money" is how much time it takes to do things..

I've had my shop for 7 years now. Many times I have talked with upholsterers' who have been in the business for 25 or 30 years. I'll share with them a technique that takes me hours to complete. Their comment is often "Me too." That's kind of depressing.

I think a more recent innovation than the pneumatic staple gun is accounting software such as Quickbooks.

I have a clear plastic template guide that I use for pillow covers. It goes from 12" to 30". I used to use a ruler and chalk. Now I lay the guide on my fabric, center whatever I want to center, than mark through the holes in the template. I do a lot of pillow covers and this saves me a lot of time.

With my background in the packaging industry I am constantly looking for ways to save time.

gene

[Mike8560]

June I tried cutting a roll of vinyl once I used my chopsaw it has a metal cutting wheel I used it to cut pipe but it made a nice cut on the vinyl kinda burne the cardboard tube 

With thinking it over more, I wish there was a table you could put a yard of fabric on and it could cut out x number of welts. Or adjust it to cut boxing.

What makes upholstery so difficult is time. We still cut fabric, sew fabric, staple, and so forth pretty much how it has been done for about 50 years.

I have a friend who for a short time worked at a firemans suit factory.
Nit sewing or anything like that.  But he said they had a table that the fabric was on and a computir  ut all the pieces on A big plotter cutte. Like vinyl lettering.   
As in most industries there has been some kind of technological advantage. Upholstery is still a very labor and skill dependent job and business. Am I just missing something? It just takes so much time and I'm not 23 anymore and able to work full bore all day every day.  The last innovation I can think of is the Pneumatic staple gun.
Still so labor centered to do a great job.

[sofadoc]

it took me 4 hours to tear it apart. and another 12 to cut, sew and i had to repair the foam by glueing new over the top. yes I knew I was slow i just was wanted to know how slow. i am glad I plan to do this for my self and freind. i retire december 31 this year and will have to see how my projects come out as to wether i will try to make money or keep as a hobby thanks

If it takes 4 hours just to take the old one apart, then I would say "Hobby". ;D

[baileyuph]

Good discussion on cutting time in the shop.

For furniture, the template Gene talks is a not bad tool.

For larger squares and rectangles, I have used a calibrated abscissa on a table, base line effect and then, an ordinate axis can be obtained to a desired dimension to complete the rectangle.  This speeds things up, but of course a digital coordinatograph is the cats meow!  punch in the abscissa and the oridinate and the coordintograph draws out the rectangular size desired.  Of course, the next option is hook a cutter to the device and it is ready for sewing.  One can quickly use their imagination and see this actually taking care of boxing and even cording requirements.   Down side is cost, unless the volume is there to support it.  Then, it actually cost not to be equipped.

Going digital is the way to be equipped and then the system would lend itself to supporting any geometric, for example circles.  Coordinates are all that is needed.  These are primarily plane geometry issues.

It would be interesting to have the cost for some of these ideas.  Maybe it would or not be a surprise?
Doyle

[JuneC]

Well, this would be nice, but I doubt it's in anyone's budget.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPHbS3TixIE

I saw one of these at a recent IBEX show - lots of fun to watch.

June

[Ihavenoname]

This discussion has inspired me to find ways to save time and create efficiency.

I'm thinking of making a clear plexiglass template for welting.  Maybe boxing if it works out.

I think a 60 inch wide x 24 or 36 inch deep piece should work. Then on my table saw, cut slots for marketing out the welting.

If it works, I'd place the template on the fabric. Then square it up a bit, and start marking out my welting.

What would be slick is to have a cutter that fit in the slots and cut the fabric with out marking. A hand held rotary cutter might work.

So maybe 30 minutes of cutting out 30 welts might take less then 5 minutes. ( guessing on time so please don't give me any grief)

One thing I've noticed in watching the Youtube vids on cutting machines, there  is a lot more waist and no creative fabric use such as welt or zipper boxing or such. It's a block and cut method not lay it out and figure highest usage.

[Peppy]

Well, this would be nice, but I doubt it's in anyone's budget.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPHbS3TixIE

I saw one of these at a recent IBEX show - lots of fun to watch.

June

But what's the setup time? And how do you get the patterns digitized? Looks like a lot of moving parts compared to a pair of snippers.

I bet I could cut out 1 boat top as fast as that thing could cut 10, but who needs 10 identical boat tops?

[fragged8]

you say that peppy, i just signed 2 tops for the same boat this week.  !!

Bonehead..
you think too much.. you'll end up thinking yourself into a corner..

for a welt template get a 1 1/2" wide ruler or a piece of aluminium
that wide and maybe 60 to 70" long

for boxing make up some small templates 12" x 4" - 12" x 5" - 12" x 6"
and also some sticks 12 " or so long  1/2" one side and 3/4" the other
and another 1" one side and 3/4" the other..

that way you can lay down a 4" template for 4" boxing  and if you want to add 1/2"
lay the 1/2" wide stick beside it. and so on. .

Also i measure the width of my squares and rules so i know what i can use them for.
generally my rules are a bit short of 1 1/2" but i use them for welt anyway :-)

[Mike8560]

Well I just checked  I did a apox 2'x2'x6"cushion all vinyl top and bottom  
Two sections with a zippered pull inside for a bolster
Zipper on the bottom of the main with Velcro on the bottom back half a strip
I had it all finnished and stuff whe I relised I had forgot the Velcro o. This piece   Pulled the foam reversed it and  sewed on a strip of Velcro  anx  aplied slipey to it and stuffed  it all in one hour.

[byhammerandhand]

A few weeks ago, I re-read  David Pye's  Nature and the Art of Workmanship. 

Mr. Pye is known for his distinction of the workmanship of risk vs. the workmanship of certainty.

In the workmanship of certainty the result of every operation during production has been predetermined and is outside the control of the operative once production starts.   In the workmanship of risk the result of every operation during production is determined by the workman as he work and its outcome depends wholly or largely upon his care judgment and dexterity. 

I don't know of many (any?) upholstery operations that don't fall into "workmanship of risk"

What makes upholstery so difficult is time. We still cut fabric, sew fabric, staple, and so forth pretty much how it has been done for about 50 years.

As in most industries there has been some kind of technological advantage. Upholstery is still a very labor and skill dependent job and business. Am I just missing something? It just takes so much time and I'm not 23 anymore and able to work full bore all day every day.  The last innovation I can think of is the Pneumatic staple gun.
Still so labor centered to do a great job.

[Ihavenoname]

A few weeks ago, I re-read  David Pye's  Nature and the Art of Workmanship.  

Mr. Pye is known for his distinction of the workmanship of risk vs. the workmanship of certainty.

hammerhand, I'm not sure what you are getting at but after reading a few reviews on Amazon and Wikipedia on Pye,  Pye sounds good but most people don't know and don't care about quality. And after looking at Lean six sigma, what I get from most customers is cost = value.

So in my business to get more work, I get more and more pressure to lower price. This can only be done in one way. I can lower costs or two, I can take a hit. Taking the hit can only work for a shot time and costs raise as quickly or quicker then I can lower them. The only other thing is lower production time but at the risk of lowering quality and craftsmanship as defined by Pye.

As Pye states, risk is part of craftsmanship in that at any moment the work can be damaged or destroyed by a bad move by the craftsperson. Certainty comes from systems and systems are predictable meaning less risk, again Lean Six Sigma. But lower quality and high workmanship. But according to lean six sigma higher workmanship and higher quality.

Maybe that's it. a contradiction.  Lean Six Sigma could just be more marketing then fact. Can you build a better sofa in a factory of low skilled people then can be made by 1 highly skilled craftsman?

Who would have less waist? I'm betting the skilled craftsman

Who would have fewer mistakes? Again the skilled craftsperson.

Who's product would last longer? The craftswoman bet.

Who would be more profitable? The factory with higher production is my guess.

Who will sell more? the factory with lower cost per unit.

Who will be better protected in case of lawsuit? The factory because it is set up as a Corporation based in Delaware with off shore holding in the Trobian Island while hiding under the vial of incorporation and negating their fiduciary responsibility to share holders with a shell company allowing them to pay $0.00 in federal income taxes.  


Ah we have reached the Dialectic what that "Contradictions within the system force change upon the system. Now we are talken.

Yep I think to much.


Again, how do you justify the cost of quality as to the value of saving money?

How do you get people to trade money for quality when for less money they can by a sofa that kinda looks the same.?