newbie in over his head

[lostinspace]

I know you probably get these often and hate it, but I would really like some help.

I picked up some cool chairs for $20 a piece, great bones covered with tooled leather that was falling to pieces.... 
Found some great fabric $$$ and now I don't want to half a** it.

Several questions if you don't mind.....

The back rest is the only thing I fully removed to get the leather off the exposed back side.... I discovered what I believe to be pig and horse hair.... Question..
I did some research to find that this is actually considered to be the cadillac of stuffing. I kind of actually believe it because although firm, the seat and seat back is very comfortable...... Is this really true, should I reuse it?
I actually kind of like the idea of this rustic fill, another question.... If yes, can I wash and recondition it with anything before putting it back together?

Now the major concern.... The seat is sagging about 2 1/2 to 3 inches out the bottom of the chair..... Removing the numerous ornate tacks and the steel nails holding the leather on was already quite a job, but it was all a mindless and meticulous task.... Something I can handle.... I'm very hesitant to start removing springs and entering the task of retying.... Question...
The seat is very comfortable, sagging and all..... The stuffing is well tied down so I can't really examine the top fully without removing everything, but from what I can see and feel pressing down, the top seems to be very solid and level regardless of how I push up from the bottom.... The only thing that seems to have given a bit is the bottom webbing.... Can I omit the entire disassembly and only remove the bottom webbing?
I would like to get new webbing, stretch it and only have to retie to that.... I also read on here something about clamping rings to attach springs to webbing?

I'll get some pictures together to better illustrate the task, any advice in the meantime would be well appreciated.

[lostinspace]

http://s1090.photobucket.com/albums/i367/jcornish739616/

Pics

[crammage]

Yes, you can just put new webbing across the bottom to keep it from sagging.  Jute webbing stretches over time and thus the sag on the bottom.  I do occasionally just put new webbing on the bottom but ideally us professionals prefer to redo all the webbing, spring tying, etc to make sure that the job will last as long as possible.  As you can tell the original craftsmen did a great job in helping insure that the chair stuffing survived for a long time.

That being said, go ahead and put new webbing on the bottom (you can buy it by the yard from the local fabric store like Hancock or Joann's) and make sure you pull it nice and tight.  There are tools available to pull the webbing and are fairly inexpensive. 

There are several ways to attach the springs to the new webbing.  If it was me I'd hand sew them using very thick thread and a curved needle.  The other methods to attach springs to webbing is to use hog rings or a clinch it tool, which I don't like because I always cut myself on the sharp pointed ends.  Ouch!

You can search the discussion log for more information on this subject.  Good luck and feel free to ask for more help if you need it.

Clay

[bobbin]

Lost, I'm certainly no upholsterer but everything I've read about hair padding is that it's primo stuff and prices for replacement hair are very high.  I think it was Joy who said she washes it  and spreads it out to dry.  I have several very good books on upholstery (I am a "wannabe" who never makes the time to actually rip something down and redo it for herself) and they all suggest washing and reusing hair.  One suggests putting it in a pillow case, stitching it closed and putting it through the washing machine. 

Most of the pieces I have hoarded for myself have hair padding and are in really bad condition with rotted webbing and springs askew and fabric that is in tatters.  And I even have a couple of garbage bags with discarded hair in them...

(OK, I've confessed! there you have it... how pathetic is that?)

[MinUph]

Hello Lost,
  When you take the filling off the back you should keep it in tact. There is no need to clean it unless it is really dusty and if it is hair and dusty it is shot. Not generally the case. It would have to be a couple hundred yrs old for that to decay. If you pull it apart I would recommend replacing it. It takes allot of practice to work with loose hair and make a nice pad out of it. If this is the case replace it with foam and a layer of cotton.
  As for the base webbing. Try and tear the existing webbing with your hands. If you can it is rotten and should be removed. If you can't tear it it is still pretty good and just stretched. You could go over the old with new webbing. You will need a webbing stretcher to get it tight enough nothing else will really do the job. It is a tool with nail like things sticking out of one end. If you don't have one or don't want to buy one take the piece to a shop and ask to have it put on properly for you.
  Sounds like you have some "cool" chairs. Do them right and be proud of the job.
  Have fun.

[lostinspace]

Wow.... What a gracious group you have here, I'm very impressed..... Thank you for all the advice and encouragement..... Looking forward to sharing the end result!

[alge]

lovely little chair, and you have a few..... thats great! Those decorative nails are awesome!

I doubt if its pig hair in the back as the pig hair follicles are pretty short and stiff and what we want in upholstery is springy. Think pig hair brushes really good for stencil work. The horse hair in the back looks in fabulous condition, the trick is to try to not to disturb it too much (and dont mix up the pads because the chair frame size may vary slightly, not vital but good practice).

The white hair on top of the seat pad will be either bleached horse tail hair or cattle hair, I dont know why tail hair was bleached, i heard once that it may have been for stuffing's just under the cover (top stuffing) so that any tacks or general upholstery workshop debris could be easily spotted and removed before the cover went on??? cant be certain but it seams valid to me.

The seat webbing has gone (stretched), but as already advised above you may be able to tighten the second lot that was added at a later date. Personally i'd consider covering the seat before doing it as i would be concerned that the extra tension in the may pull the hessian (burlap) away from the tacks on the top of the seat rail if you do the webbing first. i cant be certain dating american chairs but if they were English (which i'm certain they are not) with that styling and embellishment of the nails on leather i'd date them around 90-100yrs old so the burlap will be a bit brittle.

Nice find

Alex

P.s any photos of them in the original condition?

[sittin good]

Nice chairs. From what I see in Photo 9 there is inside back webbing over the top of the seat springs. This says that repairs have been made in the past by someone maybe cutting corners in quality. I do not see the chair by itself in a photo, but as an aside I would say to pick out a project of less value to practice on. I have been an upholsterer for 30 plus years and find that the old ways are the most challenging and the most rewarding. However, in the old days each part of a furniture piece was a craft in it self.
The job you show would require great skill to do properly. You can do it but please don't corners or do it half a''sed as you said.
Where are you? I would help if you are close or want.

[JuneC]

Now there's a generous offer.  Wish someone had offered me help with marine work when I was starting  ::)  I do boats, but LOVE old things and that chair is a beauty in the making (as I'm sure it was from it's original craftsman).  Someday, remind me to post pics of my quarter-sawn oak hutch. 

Good luck with that piece, Lost, and please post pics of your progress and ask for help for the furniture experts here if you run into problems.  I'm sure it's going to be just gorgeous when you finish. 

June

[bobbin]

Paul, what makes working with loose hair more difficult?  It is just "fussier" to get it all settled down and poked into place so it lies flat or is it the "bridle ties" that are the PITA?

[MinUph]

I see it as a feeling thing. You need to pick it apart, lay it on the piece and be able to feel the evenness of the pad. I don't think it is all that difficult myself but have seen it made a mess of by people that are not experienced. Stitching it down isn't too hard. Its all in the feel

[bobbin]

So you have to be patient and willing to fiddle around to get it layed in smoothly and evenly.  Thanks!

[Joys Shop]

I would venture to say that the springs need to be retied
looks like someone put webbing on the top instead of retying them the last time the chair was covered

The horse hair and edgeroll (from the little I can see of them) is in fine condition
Both probably can be reused without too much additional work

The horse hair just needs to be "refluffed" with a regulator (or ice pick)

If you want any info on how to do that
Contact Kim Buckminster

http://buckminsterupholstery.com/

You can email (or talk to) him, and ask him which video he has, which would best show you how to "refluff" horse hair

[bobbin]

His stuff is just wonderful, Joy!  He was working on a green leather fainting couch and shared some shots on another forum.  It was tufted and buttoned and absolutely gorgeous. 

I will have to bookmark his website, thanks!

[alge]

It certainly is as good as i've ever seen. The rose wood sofa in the insights section is stunning!