Is There Such A Thing As Too Tight?

[jojo]

Just wondering, when you guys install snaps on a boat cover, do you pull the canvas as tight as you can? Should you have to struggle a bit to get the cover on? (The fabric is Sunbrella). Or do you leave a slight amount  of give?

[MTupguy]

Only done one boat in my time, and it was TIGHT!!! After that, I think it became tighter for the owner, but never anything he couldn't manage, and still (3 yrs. later) haven't heard any complaints.  Maybe I'm wrong, but i wish I'd made a little looser, so when it shrunk up it would be right-on.  Hope the real boat guys can help you out!

[Grebo]

Very good question jojo, it seems there are different ideas on this.
Personally I just pull gently for the tension. Canvas does like to 'settle in' sometimes.
I think it also depends on your location & general weather conditions.
In the UK where it never gets really hot but can get a bit chilly you probably can pull it real tight. But here where it gets some what warm & very dry it doesn't work to well, unless your user is a gorilla  ;D (possibly the canvas shrinks a bit more ?) I have never had any one complain that a cover of mine was too loose, but have altered quite a few others for shrinkage ( mostly out of the UK ) !
I know of some canvas workers that fit them bullet tight so they look good straight away, but then they have no further interest in them or the customer.

Suzi

[regalman190]

For me, same a s Suzi. Most of my customers do not want to fight their canvas. So I fit everything a little loose.

[bobbin]

I used to work for a guy who really cranked hard on canvas when he was installing.  He said that over time the acrylics would stretch and by cranking on them upon initial installation they would "look nice" when the fabric began to stretch and settle into its new position.  I don't know from personal experience as I've never installed anything... I'm nothing but a shop grunt.  ;)  I can say that with heavier gauge window plastic (strata glass esp.) a summer installation can spell disaster when it comes time to put it back on in the early spring... for precisely the temperature issues Grebo and Regal. have sited.  We often advise frustrated boat owners to wait for a bright, sunny day and install curtains in full sun at the warmest time of the day. 

I can say, though, that with awnings (made from acrylic) they do tend to get looser with time.  For that reason I tend to cut out some of "bag" when cutting and making up loose frame awnings.  With canopies that are laced on the problem is addressed with every seasonal "put up".  Once the canopy is situated properly on the frame and the corners have been cable tied into place to hold it you can easily pull out any sag with your lacing.  Lacing is the great equalizer. 

[JuneC]

I don't pull too tight.  Just a comfortable tug.  My customer don't want to fight their canvas.  I've seen a lot of marinas and others who have to put on the canvas have to wet a cover just to get it snapped.  I've also seen a lot of those snaps rip out of the canvas.  I subbed out an enclosure recently.  It looked beautiful up, but putting it up for the 1st time after having taken it down for some arch work, the thread snapped in one of the panels.  It was too tight and the thread simply broke, right in the middle of the panel.  I couldn't get it installed at all.  My 200+ pound husband had to do the snapping.  Note to Tenara users - it is NOT as strong as polyester so you might want to double-stitch in high-stress areas.  But I digress...   

Most boat covers can be tightened over time by simply raising the tent poles a bit.

June

[Mike8560]

Any sunbrella. Over I have had lossened up after time and it got wet  a co kpit cover I've seen pool in the back corners if it was loose uless the lent pole I'd circus tent high om to me on a pontoon cover but not a nice cockpit cover on a sportboat.   
When I first install a snap it is alway losser easier to snap and gour later even if it dosent get wet in the meantime  on an en lose the front window espicialy the two front corner windows at the curves unless it tight the widow dosent gloom good.  I reciently  did a enclosure on a silverton 40 aft hardtp the window from the bridge Bimini down to the rear decks hardtop at the corner is trickier and if nit tight the widow wrinkles   I had to redo one corner to get it tight for the owner   Y the way most I have like them tight and snug looking as they never take them off just roll up the u zips   
There was probly 6 other boats just like this with wrinkles at the same window  I like to install them when it hot so they don't loosen up and become baggy as can happen if installed in the cooler weather the. They bag out in the summer.  I tell them just leave then on as much as posible. 
I had a fellow with a formula like a 25 sport style wanted a Bimini mounted onto the  windshield with a stainless frame.  I advsed against it  and he wanted window I case he was caught in the rain.  6 month later he told me I was right as his window frame was comming loose and the window he put them in storage and never used them then probly 2 tears later when he didntry to
put them up they were to tight.  Well they were on.  I told hem either to wait till it's hot out or snap as much as he canand snap one more the next till there all done. 
I once was selling my boat a formula 233 in march sominout up the top but the side widow were 5" short of reaching the rear snap so I got  snaped them as I could over a few days 

[jojo]

Hmm..so everyone has a bit of a different philosophy on this. Just wanted to know that I'm not doing it really wrong. I was always taught to pull it pretty tight, but I feel kind of weird telling customers that they will have to wrestle with it a little bit to put it on. For the record, I live in northeastern PA, where it rains about 3 times a week in the summer, and snows all winter long.

[Peppy]

"Tight is right, too tight is short"

I like tight tarps. Customers don't. I like tarps that shed water. So do customers. I make tarps tight. It shouldn't cause marital problems getting it done up but if it's a breeze to do up it'll be loose and baggy and they'll complain about it being ugly.

Thats why I started using fish scales making the patterns so I have a number I can point to. For a while I was making tops to tight, customers complained and leaking issues lasted a long time (but did go away over time and 303) and so I had to dial back. I shoot for 8-12 pounds on each tension strap. Whatever that means.

But man they were nice tops.


And today the sunbrella has stretched and now tight isn't an issue.

Our tops are still nice but they don't get that shimmer that really tight sunbrella gets.

[bobbin]

Lol, Peppy.  "That shimmer"... too funny. 

[Mike8560]

Me I love a tight look I like to tsp on it like a drum bounce a quarter

[JuneC]

I agree tight tops look good, but Sunbrella pulled too tight will have a serious misting problem in a heavy rainstorm.  Especially with the lousy weave that I've seen out of Glen Raven recently on some rolls.  Their quality seems to be all over the board, but I digress. :'(

So who among us can come up with a new system that alleviates the pain of fighting with canvas to get it installed?  I keep telling myself there has to be a better way.  Leaving a 1-1/2" starting "tail" on zips helps a lot, but can cause failure of the zip tape right at the thread starting point because that part isn't reinforced like the ends are.  Maybe a better fastening system?  Accurate templates and placement of zips and fasteners are key, but there has to be more that can be done.  We need a breakthrough.

June

[Mike8560]

I've started using more recacrill that isn't susposed to streach or shrink.  I didn't a cover for w deale
or and tey had the boat o. Display at an angle.  It ended up pooling some water from it and streached  is this normal? Or is it no Streach. 
One problem I have June with fastner is theblift the dots and common sence to a degree.
Pattern the front window on a bridge say and now install the lit the dots.
You have to get over the post the. The window slacks off when it on
unless I make it real tight to pull it then slip it over.  Know  what I meen?
Same thing as a hook on a Bimini strap got to get it past the hook.
A push button fastner here eliminates this problem or a leg with pull pin. 

[JuneC]

Well, Recacril isn't supposed to stretch, and I've just made my first cover with it so we'll see. 

I know exactly what you mean with LTD's.  If they point downward and out on the corners, by the time you get them on and the canvas goes in all the way, it's loosened up again.  And I hate bimini straps.  I'm going to tubes and low-profile quick release fasteners wherever possible.  Like these...

  http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Quick_Release_Bimini_Top_Hinge&i=33714&r=view&aID=506F6&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=3333373134&cID=GSHOP_33714

Love them...  TriVantage has them for a good price.  I also like Taco's "ball and socket" hinges.

June

[Mike8560]

Yes June those are nice  accon makes them
http://www.acconmarine.com/p-63-401-quick-release.aspx
betterpried e her. I'm sure I've bought them from Manart or sombody for a better price then that too