subcontractor - what do you think?

[gene]

I had a sewing project. I asked a seamstress, who I've known for a few years, to do the work. She gave me a price, I said OK.

She left me a message this morning that said she started the job and it was going to be more work than she thought, so she is going to charge me an hourly rate. She told me how much per hour she was going to charge me.

I called her back and told her to stop everything. I went to her house and picked up the entire work. I paid her what she said I owed her for the few hours she had already put into it.

I have no intentions of working with this lady again.

If we have an agreement, and if either of us wants to change that agreement, we talk about it. If we agree to raise the price, we have a new agreement. And there are times when I do raise the price because there are unseen issues that come up. This is not uncommon for me, as we all know. If I will not raise the price, and you will not do the work, then we have a new agreement.

What this lady did was to change the price without asking me, or even talking to me. She went from a fixed price to a blank check. Not bad for her, huh?

And the irony is that my customer, the homeowner, does not care about the price. She wants the work done, and done well. I could have easily gone back to her and told her that it would be more expensive. She would have said OK.

I think this lady was dishonest and unethical. I think she saw an opportunity for a short term gain and went for it. Now, there is no 'long term' with me.

Any thoughts on this issue, other subcontractor issues, and the issue of burning a bridge with someone?

gene

[Mike8560]

She agreed to a price and should have stuck with it. 
But to start working without your consent on this change in price was wrong.
I e never worked with a sub but I have burnt a bridge
one was a delete customer who wantedow pricing  wanted me to  turn around asap didn't matter if I was busy. The. I had to wait a week or more for the check in the mail even though they wanted the product right away.  I didn't  need that when I would have to use material I could use elswere and get paid imidiatly 

[JuneC]

Not ethical at all.  You/she can't change the terms of the contract  - verbal or written - in the middle of the project  without the consent of both parties.  I'd ditch her too.  How can you accurately price the piece to your customer or defend your pricing?  Business doesn't work that way.  Best to find another sub. 

June

[needles eye]

Rem acu tetigisi (L.), you have touched the thing with a needle, you have hit it exactly.

man, what some crew will do for a quid, huh, and the bloody liberties they will take
hey i don't like being walked on
as you can appreciate mate life is kinda a two way street    :-\

Quid desiderio sit pudor aut modus? (L.), why should there be shame or stint of regret for the loss of one so dear?

what ever happenned to integrity?
hands up
stand and deliver!!

It could be put to her, gene, that "you can't kick a goal if you keep moving the goal posts".
She knows how to play aussie rules football, right? And rave on in Latin?
Oh..

she might tell ya then that "necessity has or knows no law"
and, you'd maybe counter with "ignorance of the law excuses nobody"

sometimes our faith in human nature gets a little bit dented
but keep ya chin up bud
all the best
cheers

[MinUph]

You did the right thing. That bridge wasn't one worth keeping.

[sofadoc]

Gene, when the lady originally made you the price, what went through your mind?

a) "That sounds about right"
             OR
b) "Wow! That's too cheap!"

If the answer is "a", then I think you were correct in picking the work up.
If "b", then I would give her a little latitude about renegotiating.
But in either case, she shouldn't have matter-of-factly said "I'm going up without your consent"

But, just what I know about you from reading your posts, I don't think the "b" scenerio is a likely one. I know that anytime a sub has made me a "too good to be true" price, I pass on it.

[Mojo]

I have always been the individual who believes in agreeing to something and sticking to it. Yes, I have screwed myself several times being like that but if I agree to something I stand behind my word.

If I quote a price to a customer then thats the price. I never go back and ask for more. It has taught me to be very methodical and careful when quoting. I have underbid jobs before ( be being inexperienced ) and kicked myself in the ass for it later but I learned valuable lessons along the way.

You did the right thing. Get the gasoline out and set that bridge on fire. :)

Chris

[regalman190]

She handled badly. I would have done the same as you did. Pull the job and be done with her.

[bobbin]

Yes, I agree that you were wise to pull the work, Gene. 

We all know that sometimes we under estimate the time required to deliver the work the way it should look.  I think oftentimes that comes from wanting the work and hurrying the estimate... not taking adequate time to look at a job and really think about what will be required to deliver it looking the way we know it should.  When doing marine/canvas/repair work I always give an estimate that includes a price range... say from $50-75, or $125-150... I prefer estimates to reflect 1/2hr. variance, but on larger jobs will allow an hour/hour and a half variation. 

I have burned myself in alteration work by not adequately studying the way a garment was put together (and thus, how it must be taken apart!) before quoting a price for the work to be done.  Much time can be "lost" to picking out tiny stitches on topstitched seams.  The key, I've found, is to take enough time to study the work carefully before quoting. 

When this has happened to me I take of two courses:
1.)  I suck it up and "eat" the loss (and add careful notes to my notebook!)
2.)  I call the customer, apologize for the inconvenience and tell them I've made a terrible mistake and let them know I cannot do the work for the price they were quoted.  And I provide an updated estimate for them to consider. 

I would never take on work as a sub-contractor and then think changing the price after starting the work would be remotely OK.  As a sub. it's important to understand that the person who's hired you has already built in some "wiggle room" and you have to stick to the bargain you've made.  It's only fair. 

[gene]

Thank you for the replies, everyone. It's great to run something like this past folks who have been there.

gene

[Cheryl]

I disagree with the general consensus here.  There is not enough information presented to make a fair "judgement".    What is clear is that Gene was offended by the  new price and pulled the work.  I don't consider it "breach of contract at all.   She  obviously felt the work was more time consuming than she expected.  

If you don't consider her professional enough to be fair with you - then by all means... don't use her again.  

I would have kept her and paid her what she asked, unless I felt she couldn't do a good job.  And in that case, I wouldn't have hired her in the first place.

just my 2 cents.

[byhammerandhand]

I agree that there's not always enough information.   

The designation of "sub-contractor" indicates this is part of a larger job bid to a third party.

Let's say the seamstress's part was $100 and Gene was going to add $150 for his additional labor and materials.   So Gene bid the job to the final consumer at $250.   Now the seamstress states she is getting basically an open-ended check.  Let's say her part is now $200 or $300 instead of the original $100.   In what kind of a hole does that leave Gene?

I hate to give estimates without first hand examination.  But if I've underestimated, then it's my mistake and I eat the mistake.   I might make exception for concealed damage, but I'd only go back to consumer as last resort, and probably then as "not possible to do (at any cost)."

[DBR1957]

Maybe enough info maybe not.

Did she give you a firm price or did she say she would have to start and see how
involved the project would be?

If she gave you a firm price then the following applies.

She started the work, period. She was committed. If she was experienced
enough to take on the task then she should have been experienced enough
to properly guage the amount of work to be done. If she wasn't then she should
have looked upon it as a learning experience and informed Gene that she made
a mistake and any future services he contracted to her would be examined more
thoroughly.

We've all made our share of mistakes. We learn from them and move on.

[Allan]

She gave me a price, I said OK.

She left me a message this morning that said she started the job and it was going to be more work than she thought, so she is going to charge me an hourly rate. She told me how much per hour she was going to charge me.

She gave Gene a fixed price which was agreeded upon

Then she changed it to an open ended hourly rate

The conversation should have been a revised quote from the original not  I'll give you a price when I finish the job.

You were right to drop her Gene as she obviously didn't know what she was doing

Allan

[scottymc]

I would not have paid her for the work she had done.