New guy with machine questions

[slow96z]

We just bought a boat and the interior is trashed.  I am going to try to reupholster it myself and Iknow I can buy lots of vinyl and tools for what I wouldhave to pay one of the local shops, plus none of them impressed me.  I have experience in building custom audio systems in cars, which includes custom trunk and interior panels so this is not entirely new to me, but I am also very aware that there is a big difference between spray gluing carpey/ vinyl to a car panel and actual upholstering.

My main question is this:  Can I use my standard home machine to sew vinyl?  It is a nice machine and I have sewn lots of patches and fabrics with it, but I don't know if it's going to have the guts to go through the vinyl, whick will mostly be single seams but will have some welting that will require sewing through 4 layers, along with a few top stitches.

I am looking at an older Kenmore home machine that is supposed to be heavy duty ($75 on a table) and have also found an old JUKI, appears to be a 562 for $100, also with a table.  I know that's a cheap price for the JUKI, but I think it might be overkill for what I'm trying to do and researching on here tells me I may have to throw a lot of cash at it to get it set up right if it isn't. 

Here is the boat if you want to see it:

Not too bad-


Really bad-

What do you guys think?

[slow96z]

Here is a link with bigger and better pictures...

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/slow96z/Starcraft%20Starship%20Aurora/

[scarab29]

Wow that thing is trashed. While you are at it make sure you make a new cover so that dosen't happen again. I'd have to say it would be better to buy a good industrial machine. I started this business  since I couldn't fine a local shop to fill my needs with my boat. After paying 1500 for my machine I figured even if I just did my boat and sold the machine I wouldn't lose that much. 5 years later it's almost a full time gig. Big job ahead of you there. Where are you anyway?

[sofadoc]

The 562 is by no means overkill. It is an appropriate machine for that task.
The fact that it is only $100 does raise a red flag, though.
Even if the Kenmore home machine is tough enough to go through 4 layers, you probably won't be able to "hug" the welt closely, like you would with a walking foot machine (like the 562). And the Kenmore might not handle the proper thread.
You need at least 92 thread for marine purposes. Many home machines struggle with thread as heavy as 69.

[Mojo]

I see no sense in getting another home machine like the Kenmore. The problem with so many of these used machines is that people list them as commercial or heavy duty when in fact they are not. They may be good for heavier home fabrics but when you start getting into marine, auto and heavy upholstery fabrics these machines will NOT do what you want them to do.

Like Sofadoc pointed out you have to use a heavy Poly thread for marine use ( I use 138 thread myself ) and the home machines or " heavy Duty " machines wont sew with this size thread. Sewing your boat interior with anything less then 69 is a waste of time.

We have had several people in the past like you who have tried the heavy duty machines for work such as what you want to do and they always end up going with an " Industrial " machine. They struggle, cuss, and come back on here asking for help because their home machines wont sew what they want. The reason being is they are not designed to be used with heavy fabric.

I strongly advise you to look for a used industrial machine such as a Juki, Consew and other similar models. They are all over Craigslist. People buy them, do a few projects and then sell them. Some are in good shape and some are junk so be careful.

Since sewing on an industrial machine is new to you let me also suggest you go to Joann fabrics and pick up some heavy fabric remnants on their bargain rack and start sewing. Start out with simple fell seams and then work your way up. There is no sense in buying good marine vinyl and learning on that. Trust me when I tell you, the first time you push that pedal on an industrial machine your going to want to jump out of your chair. :) They really fly and can be very hard to control the first few times you try sewing on them. A home machine will sew at a top speed of 500 or so stitches per minute. An industrial machine will sew at speeds of 3,300 spm. So buy cheap worthless heavy fabric to practice on because you will screw things up the first few times you sew. :)

We have some awesome marine experts on this forum who turn out some amazing work. They have sewed every kind of boat interior imaginable and I regard them as experts. So don't be afraid to ask questions. The more questions you ask the more time and money you will save. Everyone here is always glad to help newbies. :)

Best of luck.

Chris

[slow96z]

Thanks for the advice guys, I will try to find and industrial machine locally.  I'm south east of Houston so I don't think finding one will be difficult.  I emailed the seller of the juki but have not heard back yet, I will definitely test it before I buy it, sewing something with my own thread and fabric.  To test my skill I did sew a vinyl cover for a cardboard box tonight and it turned out pretty good; still need more practice though. I also practiced the stitches I'll need and they were nice.  I used a paper towel above and below the work piece when the vinyl would touch the foot and bed (guessing on terms) and then just tore the paper away, is there a better way to keep it from binding up?

[MinUph]

Thanks for the advice guys, I will try to find and industrial machine locally.  I'm south east of Houston so I don't think finding one will be difficult.  I emailed the seller of the juki but have not heard back yet, I will definitely test it before I buy it, sewing something with my own thread and fabric.  To test my skill I did sew a vinyl cover for a cardboard box tonight and it turned out pretty good; still need more practice though. I also practiced the stitches I'll need and they were nice.  I used a paper towel above and below the work piece when the vinyl would touch the foot and bed (guessing on terms) and then just tore the paper away, is there a better way to keep it from binding up?

Yes and industrial machine  ;D

[sofadoc]

I will try to find and industrial machine locally. 

Check your PM box.

[alge]

Trust me when I tell you, the first time you push that pedal on an industrial machine your going to want to jump out of your chair. :) They really fly and can be very hard to control the first few times you try sewing on them. A home machine will sew at a top speed of 500 or so stitches per minute. An industrial machine will sew at speeds of 3,300 spm. So buy cheap worthless heavy fabric to practice on because you will screw things up the first few times you sew. :)

We have some awesome marine experts on this forum who turn out some amazing work. They have sewed every kind of boat interior imaginable and I regard them as experts. So don't be afraid to ask questions. The more questions you ask the more time and money you will save. Everyone here is always glad to help newbies. :)

Best of luck.

Chris

From a furniture Guys perspective that is absolutely right the quality of work done by these guys is exceptional, The key advise I'd give for using an industrial machine is to treat the peddle like an accelerator on a car, rest you foot on it fully and squeeze with you toes don't push from your knee (you wouldn't drive a car like that because you'd get cramp in your thigh after a mile), turn the radio off and listen for the pitch change in the motor because that is when its going to start sewing.

Best of luck with it

Alex

[Darren Henry]

Like the others I offer my first hand experience that a proper walking foot machine is only way to go. The old Kenmore would likely have the ponies to drive the needle through the vinyl and may even accept #68 or better thread, but it still won't feed the work properly. I did a set of V-berth cushions in a striped cotton denim on my 31K20 (flat bed industrial machine with a rolling foot for making shoes etc) as a 3rd year apprentice. It took me two days to cokes (sp) the old lady and the dog out from under the waterbed and a month to cover my bar tab. I figured I was 1/3 the speed of using one of the machines from work and 5X more "do-overs" than projects I did in the infancy of my sewing career(s).

That is a very ambitious first project. As Scarab mentioned you will want to make a cover to protect your investment. I would suggest you make the cover first. Covers are a little less troublesome in that there is less stretch in the fabric/ the seams are usually straight lines/etc... so you can get to know your machine under less stress. Also you will then have  a dry place to store the pieces of the project as you grind away at it.

Gene only scratched the surface about body position and how to address the machine. While your"re waiting for your new toy; search one of the threads we have had about this. I usually jump right in so maybe through my posts if you can't find by topic. If you can find a treadle machine to play with-- get all over it. That same sweet spot where you can run the machine by just rocking heal-toe without fatigue or cramps is exactly where you want to drive an electric from. It's just easier to find on a treadle.

[Can-Vas]

If you can get a demonstration on the Juki 562 and if it sews a tight seam with proper tension you can't beat that price - after you finish your project you can sell the machine for at least as much as you paid...

[slow96z]

I wish I could get a demo on the machine, but I can't even get a call back right now.  I know you guys are against it, but I think given the cost of the industrial machines and my already maxed out budget I'm going to have to at least try it on my home machine.  I have a walking foot for it and spent some time last night trying to get the tensions right to work with the heavier thread and vinyl, looks like it will work out ok....probably not as good as an industrial machine, but at least good enough to let me know if I can handle the job.  I really appreciate the advice I've gotten on here and since I have to go against it I will try to keep the questions that could be answered by "Get a good machine" to a minimum.  That being said, I'm still going to start a progress thread to keep you all posted as I work through what I'm sure is going to be an awesome experience.

[CKKC]

I wish I could get a demo on the machine, but I can't even get a call back right now.  I know you guys are against it, but I think given the cost of the industrial machines and my already maxed out budget I'm going to have to at least try it on my home machine.  I have a walking foot for it and spent some time last night trying to get the tensions right to work with the heavier thread and vinyl, looks like it will work out ok....probably not as good as an industrial machine, but at least good enough to let me know if I can handle the job.  I really appreciate the advice I've gotten on here and since I have to go against it I will try to keep the questions that could be answered by "Get a good machine" to a minimum.  That being said, I'm still going to start a progress thread to keep you all posted as I work through what I'm sure is going to be an awesome experience.

I will tell you that I recovered both front and back seats on my '68 plymouth on my old Kenmore zig-zag machine.  It wouldn't feed the vinyl at all so I sewed them completely by just turning the wheel.  I never used the electric!  It can be done, but is a real PAIN!!

[sofadoc]

I have a walking foot for it

No, you may have a WELT foot for it, but it won't walk, unless it's on a walking foot machine.

[slow96z]

The manual calls it a walking foot attachment and it connects in place of the foot.  There is a lever that rides the needle thumbscrew and the needle moving up and down is what moves the dogs in the attachment (they press down on top of the material).  I thought a welt foot was one that is mostly like a regular presser foot but has one side raised up to "ride" the welt and allow the needle to sew close to it, am I wrong?  I need one of those too, I cannot make my piping with the attachment I have and the zipper foot doesn't let me get close enough to the piping. 

Here is a link to the project thread I started.  I did one of the seat backs last night after the kids went to bed.  I was going to do another tonight after I get done with the fire academy but I think I'm going to wait until I get the boat sides vinyl wrapped to make sure the colors and patterns match.  This one turned out OK but I think I need to work on the foam and also on my straight lines on the patterns.  I tried to sew it a little tight so it would stretch but some of it looks sloppy to me.

http://get-up-and-go.com/upholstery-forum/index.php?topic=10075.0

Again, any comments are welcome, I really appreciate all the help I have received so far!