This topic gets batted around a lot here, but here goes again.
I've had a helper for about 5 years now. He lives close by. He also works for a nearby paint store, and a carpet store. Between the 3 of us, we usually give him a full days work. He's 40 years old, lives with his mother, and his needs are simple. He just wants a little beer and cigarette money. For me, he helps with PU & Delivery, strips furniture, and does general clean up. I pay him twice as much as the other stores, so I expect at least a reasonable effort from him. The other store owners have chastized me for over-paying him. I am beginning to see their point.
I just don't think that stripping sofas is "brain surgery", but apparently, it must be. He misses 100's of jagged staples that I have to finish pulling.
And he is constantly nicking finished wood.
Should I be an A-hole with him? Or should I pay less and expect less?
I'm not interested in replacing him, anybody else will just move on in a week or 2. I've hired a few teenagers before. They just whine about how hard it is. And I don't have enough full-time work for a responsible adult.
Get what you pay for. If he's not doing his job correctly then keep throwing the work back at him until he does it correctly. The penny will drop sooner or later.
Frankly? he needs to lay off the butts and the beer and smarten the hell up. He gets paid more at your shop and draggin' his sorry ass and doing a crappy job isn't the way to get a raise, let alone hold on to a job that pays more than any of the others. I'd spell it out for him and give him a time frame in which he must clean up his act. If he doesn't, find someone else for the position. Life's too short for that garbage.
Maybe it's time for him to learn the key phrase for people who need to learn how to hold a job: "would you like fries with that?".
I believe honesty is the best policy. I would sit him down and tell him nicely but get your point across that he is making more at your shop then at his other jobs yet his work is way below par.
Tell him what you expect and tell him he needs to get the job done correctly or your not going to give him a raise but rather cut his pay.
I have seen it many times before where a compassionate business owner puts up with a slacking employee because they like him. There is nothing wrong with having compassion for an employee but in all honesty your not doing him any favors by not being honest about his work.
Tell him exactly what you expect and if he doesn't perform to your standards he is history. I myself would not cut his pay. I would cut him from the team.
If you get into a position that you need to fire him and rehire someone else, look to retirees. There are alot of senior citizens out there who are looking for part time work to fill out their day.
Chris
I agree with pdq, just keep on throwin it back at him, right now it sound like your doing all the harder cleaning up for him. The penny will drop or he will get sick of it and quit. It sounds like this guy does not have much in his life and the local bussnesses are doing something to look after him, like a self styled communitie project. Like you said if you get some one else they will only stay 2 weeks so you'll spend all your time answering the new guys questions (every 2 weeks) so slow and steady is probably your best option.
I'm
leaning toward monos way of thinking if it keeps going the way it is I migt do the same with my kid.
Quote from: Mojo on November 10, 2010, 05:01:46 pm
If you get into a position that you need to fire him and rehire someone else, look to retirees. There are alot of senior citizens out there who are looking for part time work to fill out their day.
That's actually not a bad idea! The only snag is: I need someone with "a strong back, and a weak mind". Most seniors are just the opposite. If they had any arthritic problems, I don't think they could strip furniture (gripping and tugging can be hard on the hand joints), or do any heavy lifting. It would have to be a senior who's still in pretty good shape. Most of THEM are out playing golf.
The main reason that I've stuck with the one I have now is: he lives only a few blocks away. He comes instantly when I need him, and he leaves as soon as I'm done with him. On average, I only use him about 10-12 hours a week. I couldn't expect anyone else to be at my beckon call like that.
For general "grunt work", I pay him $10 hr. For stripping, I pay him by the piece, in which case he usually averages $15hr. The other stores pay him minimum wage.
I wouldn't hesitate on the younger senior citizen. The guy who helps me out sometimes was remarking just a few weeks ago about how he used to have to have his son help him get the outboard on and off the dinghy and has had to for years... till now. A season doing physical labor has caused him to regain much of his lost strength. Young people (my daughter included) just don't like this type of work. They want to use their brains and fingers on a keyboard (or nothing at all) and get paid big bucks.
June
I'm with Chris and PDQ on dealing with this guy.First sit him down and explain your concerns like Chris said.Then do as PDQ suggests and supervise more closely. If you're already paying him piece work it is very easy to just keep passing stuff back to him until he has last of the staples out and the trim wood repaired before you pay him.Just let him know that he is responsible for COMPLETING the job no matter how long it takes him to do it correctly and that he will only be paid for what is done completely.
I've decided to use him for grunt work only. I'll strip the furniture myself (I end up doing it anyway).
But I do want you guy's opinion on this. Should I expect him to be able to competently pull staples out of a piece of furniture? I was doing it at the age of 10. I just never considered it to be a skill.
In degree of difficulty, how would guys compare stripping furniture to sweeping the floor? Or weed-eating? Seems like, if you can start and operate a weed-eater or lawn mower, you should be able to master pulling staples in 5 years.
BTW> He can't press buttons either (my 6 year old grandson can).
He's been skatin' by all his life, in all liklihood. He does the minimum amount of work required to skate by and occasionally someone "calls him on it" and he'll try a little harder... for a few days. He's lazy. I'd sit down and give him a written set of requirements and give him a time frame to turn things around. And then? I'd can his sorry, lazy ass.
When I used to manage people I was very clear about what I expected and I was a rather stern "task master". Half-assed didn't cut it with me. Neither did perpetual tardiness.
I agree with Darren just keep on sending it back to him till he does it how you asked and also while he is doing that strip some stuff yourself from start to finish in front of him just to give him the message. He doesnt sound lazy, more simple if he cant make a button and where are you going to find a replacement that will stick around anyone one with half a brain will move on first chance he gets. I don't think I would have been able to work for Bobbin I don't think she would have gotten the concept that surf and fishin come before work. :D
I know this topic is a few weeks old but wanted to give my two cents worth. With most employees you've got to figure out what motivates them. With some its money and others might be time off, with this guy it might be a six pack at the end of the week.
When I used to work in manufacturing they worked us nine hours a day and if we got our work done we'd get half day off Friday. Another company gave us a bonus at the end of each week if we raised our production.
I once hired a high school kid to pull staples and help PU and Del. After three months he started slacking off. I bought a chalk board, wrote his schedule on it and told him if he got his work done I'd buy him a pizza at the end of the week. It worked. Cheep fix.
Now this guy may be a hopeless case seeing hes 40 years old and still living with his mother. You talked about whiny teenagers. Have you thought about collage students. Theirs a world of difference. Find one that's paying his own way and not on daddies dime. One of the best employees I ever hired was just out of the Navy and going to collage on the GI bill and he worked for me till he graduated, about 2 years.
Quote from: kodydog on November 26, 2010, 08:52:56 pm
I know this topic is a few weeks old but wanted to give my two cents worth.
Hey, I think it's great when Newbies give a fresh perspective to topics that have slipped from the front page.
The college student idea is a good one. But that would require having work layed out for them on a more regimented schedule. And when I get a customer on the phone, I'm ready to deliver their furniture IMMEDIATELY. I can't wait for a college student to get out of class. That's why I've stuck with this guy. He comes when I want him, and he leaves when I'm done with him.
Quote from: kodydog on November 26, 2010, 08:52:56 pm
I once hired a high school kid to pull staples and help PU and Del. After three months he started slacking off.
Ok, tell me this: In YOUR opinion, is pulling staples a skill that is difficult to master? (I never thought that it was). My guess is that your high school kid slacked off because he lacked motivation, not because he just couldn't grasp the concept of "see a staple...pull it out".
That's why I get so frustrated with my guy. Either he's PRETENDING to be stupid in order to get out of working, or stripping furniture is a LOT more mentally challenging than I thought.
Doc, come on! pulling stapes is very challenging, especially if you have not had 1/3 of your brain removed or killed it with recreational drugs 8) :D
Quote from: scottymc on November 26, 2010, 11:38:04 pm
Doc, come on! pulling stapes is very challenging, especially if you have not had 1/3 of your brain removed or killed it with recreational drugs 8) :D
Your so right Scotty. If I can pull staples anyone can. :)
I had a third of my brain removed from strokes and to much time in the 70's. :)
Chris
Ahh the 70's
Your so right Scotty. If I can pull staples anyone can. :)
I had a third of my brain removed from strokes and to much time in the 70's. :)
Chris
[/quote]
Ahh but Chris you have used what is left of your brain better than the rest of us , as you don't pull any staples do you?
I try and avoid it Scotty. :)
Chris
QuoteAnd when I get a customer on the phone, I'm ready to deliver their furniture IMMEDIATELY.
I know what you mean Doc. I believe the two most important things in this business are customer service and quality.
My wife was apprehensive when we first started our business. I told her if you treat people how you like to be treated we'll be alright.
I worked for a fellow several years ago. He had a good business with 4 or 5 employees. I enjoyed working for him. But he'd do something that would drive me crazy. He'd pick up a piece of furniture and tell the customer he'd have it back in 2 weeks. I'd get the piece done and then it would sit on the floor for 5 or 6 weeks. Sometimes their would be 6 or 7 thousand dollars siting on the floor waiting for delivery.
Oh well! I guess everybody's different. Thank God.
Quote from: kodydog on November 28, 2010, 08:55:36 pm
He'd pick up a piece of furniture and tell the customer he'd have it back in 2 weeks. I'd get the piece done and then it would sit on the floor for 5 or 6 weeks.
My grandmother did the same thing. She did it because she was afraid that the customer would feel cheated if we didn't take several weeks to do their furniture.
Sure enough, when I took over the business, I did a job for one of my grandmother's old customers. I picked a chair up on Monday, and then called the lady on Friday to tell her that it was ready. She freaked. She said that I MUST have cut a lot of corners to get it done that fast. She nitpicked it to pieces. My grandmother called her and assured her that she would personally oversee the re-work. All we did was put the chair in the store room for a couple of weeks, and then my grandmother called her to tell her that everything had been fixed.
The lady was THRILLED with it when I delivered it (I did have to listen to a rather lengthy lecture from her about taking the proper time to do a quality job). ;)
That's funny. When I deliver a piece in less than a week my customers usually get an attitude like I must be making $500 an hour. Everyone knows upholsterers only make $5.
I just did a repair for a furniture store. Three piece sectional. I had to replace the foam on a tight seat. The sectional is only 3 months old and the seat is already sagging.
The furniture company sent me the new foam. When I got the old foam out I laid the new piece next to it on my table. I swear their was a 1 1/2" difference in height. The springs and frame were fine. I went ahead and put the new foam in knowing it was going to make the rest of the sectional look like crap. Normally I would have suggested sending the whole thing back to the furniture company and let them worry about it but the piece is discontinued (and this is probably why). I should have kept it for 3 or 4 weeks like you said but we picked it up a week before thanksgiving and they wanted it back before the holiday.
Sure enough when I delivered it the customer said , "now I want the other 2 seats done". I do a lot of work for this store and just happened to be there yesterday when the guy called. He didn't say anything about the other two pieces but said the one I delivered looked great for about two days and now looks like it did when I first picked it up.
Nobody's blaming me, they know I always do a first rate job, but their besides themselves trying to figure out what to do. I felt the furniture company, and their one of the biggies, needs to take the furniture back and refund the costumer. Any other suggestions.
Quoteneeds to take the furniture back and refund the costumer. Any other suggestions.
I would try to convince them to have you add a layer of "uni-deck" [it may be called something else down there; looks like a roll of dryer lint or really cheap snow boot liner] to keep the springs from eating the foam and some decent quality foam.
I know I said it was a tight seat but it's a semi-attached cushion with 6" foam. Their is no spring cover but the casing has that thin, kind of like muslin fabric on the bottom. I could replace the foam but we all know how expensive 6" foam is and I'd have to charge to cut and wrap it. The last time I took one piece apart I spent about 4 hours on it. Their stuck because its discontinued. I don't think their going to have me do any more work on it. I just felt bad for the furniture store because their spending all this time and the whole deal makes them look bad.
Quote from: kodydog on December 04, 2010, 10:32:43 am
I don't think their going to have me do any more work on it. I just felt bad for the furniture store because their spending all this time and the whole deal makes them look bad.
Cheap furniture has to be fixed at a cheap price. I do similar repairs for a local retailer all the time.
They USED to get snippy with me when a piece came back multiple times for repair.
So, I "fixed it right", and presented them a bill. Now, they tell me to just "fix what's broke".
I don't think they worry too much about "looking bad". They're selling cheap furniture at cheap prices.
The sad thing is that in many cases, the factory could've built a decent sofa for just about $100 more.
I hear ya Doc.