Today I told a long time customer to take their business someplace else.
I think what they did was, instead of approaching a problem in a mature, reasonable, professional manner, they felt they could manipulate and intimidate me because they "owned me" due to the business they were bringing me.
After our first meeting on this issue they ended the discussion by saying, "You can decide how happy you want to make me."
I have always appreciated their business but they have always been a source of stress and sometimes anxiety for me.
------------------------------------------
My evaluation on this option to cut bait:
How will this effect my sales? Definite dip in sales dollars but I believe I will quickly/eventually make it up with new business.
How will this effect my business' reputation? Neutral to positive. (Positive if others have had similar issues and hear about this.)
How will this effect the kind of business I want to have? Very positive.
How will this effect me personally? Very positive. I am grateful I did not NEED to bend over and take it. Less stress. Less anxiety. I think I will be a bit more relaxed overall. Integrity intact.
----------------------------------------
In a very real sense this is a lose/lose situation, and I feel bad about this. This is not the kind of results I want to have.
And to answer Rodney King's question, no we all just can't get along.
-----------------
I am going to look closely at how I manage my business in terms of my customers. I'm not sitting in an office waiting for the next customer to come in. I am reupholstering, cleaning, making phone calls, getting tired, feeling irritated, buying supplies, doing paper work, wondering where I put my scissors, when the next customer comes in.
Could I have managed my business better, with this customer over the years so we would not have gotten to this place? I'm thinking probably not, but I will take a look at this issue anyway.
I hope some of this might be helpful to others.
gene
Gene,
I think we all experience something like this at least once. I did and when I ended the relationship it was a major relief for me and my people. It wasn't a big customer but a high maintenance one put it nicely.
You will over come. The fact that you concerned yourself enough to think about it this much and pass it on shows you didn't act on the spur of the moment. I tend to do that and it is not good for either parties.
I've never had a formal parting of ways with a customer. There have been some that went away because they sensed my lack of enthusiasm for doing their work. Sometimes, I made up any excuse necessary to discourage them.
But I've noticed over the years that for every customer that I lose, a new one has always taken their place.
Every time my residential work dries up, the commercial jobs start rolling in. And vice-versa.
My theory is..........as long as I have a backlog, I don't worry about it.
If I sense that a customer expects me to grovel at their feet, it's an immediate deal breaker.
Quote from: sofadoc on June 24, 2016, 09:44:33 pm
My theory is..........as long as I have a backlog, I don't worry about it.
Aye, there's the rub! What to do when you DO need the work?
For me, I trust that God will see me through even if it hurts in the short term.
He always has.
Rich
You run your business like most of us. You are involved in almost everything. Therefore you know what's best for your company even though they can catch you on a bad day. Working with your hands puts a different spin on how you deal with clients. Your mindset and success is not to entertain customers - it's to get the work done and make sure everything else runs smoothly.
If you worked for somebody and they had several folks who dealt with customer service and sales you would have never had the dust up with this client.
I look at it this way - if a particular client can't recognize the wisdom and quality of the person they are using then the problem is there's alone.
Common sense should tell a seasoned client when to back off from pushing a craftsman's buttons when they have a house who can more than do the right job time and time again.
That long time customer will show up again and you decide if you want them back.
SA
We worked for a designer who split her upholstery work between us and another upholsterer who charged less money. She sent to us all the difficult jobs he did not want to do . And whenever he screwed up she had us repair it. So we raised our prices, and we kept raising them to the point she stopped using us.
Last December we charged a designer $50 to measure a sofa and 2 chairs for slip covers. When she got the fabric for the sofa she asked if we could pre-shrink it. Her customer washes them often. We told her the fabric should be shrunk and resized by a professional. She said okay and even though we did two other jobs for her the slipcovers were never mentioned again. Last week she called and said the fabric for the chairs came in and shes ready to go. She said shes not going to worry about the shrinkage and we should just allow for it when we make our pattern. Rose told her there is no way to adjust the pattern for shrinkage because each fabric shrinks differently. Rose then pointed out the fabric's cleaning code is rated S, solvent only. Rose told her if the fabric isn't pre-shrunk before we start working with it we are not interested in doing the job. This didn't make the decorator happy and she proceeded to call rose every thing but the son of god. We have a pretty good feeling this job was going to come back to bite us in the butt.
Last week we did a $300 toss pillow job for a decorator. Yesterday she left a message saying when she got to the customers house they were all the wrong size. I'm pretty good with a ruler and she gave us a detailed list of sizes so I'm pretty sure we didn't mess them up. Only thing I can think is her idea and our idea of a 15" toss pillow must be different. But, she is a long time customer and has sent us many good jobs so were going to help her out.
Point is its not hard to tell who the good customers from the bad and the good ones you treat like gold. But The customers you never seem to make money on, I'd rather loose a customer and maybe have a slow period once in a while then keep accepting those money loosing jobs. That's no way to run a business.
Quote from: kodydog on June 25, 2016, 06:52:18 am
We worked for a designer who split her upholstery work between us and another upholsterer who charged less money. She sent to us all the difficult jobs he did not want to do
I had one that did the same thing. The other guy got all the meaningful work, and all I got were his culls. The decorator was always using the promise of more work as a negotiating ploy.
I've had some mutual parting of ways without any harsh words being said. And usually, they come crawling back after they've worn out their welcome everywhere else. It's kinda like marriage. Some people have to go through a divorce or two before they mellow out and learn that the sun doesn't rise and set in their ass.
Today, one of my long time customers called me to go look at their sofa to estimate yardage, she and her designer needed to order. In the past, I furnished the fabric and there wasn't an ID involved.
The customer "is not" ordering the fabric from me and expects me to spend travel time plus vehicle expense to provide the yardage requirement - without compensation.
That arrangement is against my grain - because it is a time give away.
I have a back log of work, it isn't like I need the job --
Some people and their designers just don't understand business and time management.
So, at that point, of course I balked.
We business people can't give that time away can we??
Designers !!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't get me involved! It would be interesting to hear their line with a customer. The drift I get is they may only be color/pattern matchers.
This is just one advantage of doing auto/marine/ and a lot of the other work. Designers or color matchers don't enter the picture nor does the shop owner run to their houses for free.
Doyle
This thread causes me to dredge up in my mind that tired old topic "Difference between a decorator and a designer".
I don't know anyone that still goes by the title of decorator. They all prefer to call themselves designers because it sounds fancier, and they feel like they can charge more for their services.
But what exactly defines a designer?
One isn't a designer simply because they can pick out fabric (after all, thousands of housewives do that every day).
One isn't a designer because they know how to run to JoAnns and buy mass marketed fabric (again, housewives do that too).
And finally, does calling an upholsterer out to the customer's home in order to do the estimating for them make one a designer? Housewives also know how to dial a phone number.
You might argue that housewives often make poor choices that are impractical or downright unreasonable. Well, so do designers.
First Doyle,
You should be compensated for your time. I will do a yardage and labor estimate over email but will charge for a in house estimate for a Decorator.
Secondly to hope on Dennis' remark. A decorator is someones wife that can decorate something better or at least supposedly better than a customer. A designer is a trained person who not only can decorate like a customer but has schooling in the design aspect of whatever they are designing. A professional that is.
On a lighter note. I will work with either if they 1. are nice, 2. pay me for my services, and 3. give me what I need to do my work.
QuoteYou should be compensated for your time.
A few days ago I gave a price to a new customer for pick up and delivery of their furniture. They thought that was rather expensive. (Expensive compared to what? The cost of a loaf of bread?)
Hey, I might start saying that. When someone complains about my prices, I think I will say, "Yes, it is more expensive than a loaf of bread." :)
I told them that my heating and air conditioning guy charged $95 dollars just to pull into my driveway at home. He starts charging more once he gets out of his truck.
If I don't value my time, neither will my customers.
The "hook" for small business owners is that we need business to survive. If we are slow, it is very tempting to do what it takes to get any business in, including lowering prices and not valuing our time.
In another post kodyD mentioned using a volunteer from SCORE. I believe he is the only other person on this forum (other than me) to mention using SCORE. The one big message SCORE has for small business owners is DO NOT COMPETE ON PRICE. I think these guys and gals mention this so much is because it is so easy to do and yet so detrimental to business success.
And thank you for your replies on my OP. I do appreciate being able to toss out my experiences and get helpful, positive feedback in return.
gene
Quote from: gene on June 26, 2016, 04:34:10 am
The "hook" for small business owners is that we need business to survive. If we are slow, it is very tempting to do what it takes to get any business in, including lowering prices and not valuing our time.
When slow and a lower price is given to try to get work in, the customer could say, "let me think about it". Then things pick up, shop gets busy, and then the customer that was given the lower price returns (within a reasonable amount of time - like 30 days) with the work and the lower price. Price has to be honored while other more profitable work is at hand. I had a owner of a repair shop share this with me many years ago. He would not give the lower prices when slow. It is a difficult discipline to develop.
Rick
Quote from: RiCat on June 27, 2016, 03:42:43 am
I had a owner of a repair shop share this with me many years ago. He would not give the lower prices when slow. It is a difficult discipline to develop.
Rick
Once adopted it is no longer hard to have the discipline to follow through with this. The idea of lowering prices to bring work into a slow shop is part of the reason why this and other trades become less profitable and quality is lowered in the end.
I hope with some copying and tablet builds for tear-off forms possibly. That another of my new papers I been working on last week can be used shortly, its almost finished.
Like the other form I need to do some work with locking the spaces or protect the selected cells thing, anyway its "a proposal form" and I am using a 30 day estimate.
I think this amount of decision time is plenty adequate.
During this time frame the customer can sign on for further material agreements and thereby starting further commitment and not allowed to cancel the job after the materials are ordered.
I understand there can be other issues in this style and that would have to be dealt with as well.
It's a start for me here with additions from previous and I think by putting this in the form and "easily seen" it precludes some undesirable conversations. hopefully
Now the over the phone tire kickers with no pics, don't get me started : )
Good day
Floyd
Quote from: MinUph on June 27, 2016, 04:51:41 am
The idea of lowering prices to bring work into a slow shop is part of the reason why this and other trades become less profitable and quality is lowered in the end.
I agree. When you lower your price even temporarily, that new price has a way of becoming the new norm.
It actually makes more sense to RAISE your prices during slow periods.
Quote from: DB on June 25, 2016, 08:24:02 pm
This is just one advantage of doing auto/marine/ and a lot of the other work. Designers or color matchers don't enter the picture nor does the shop owner run to their houses for free.
Doyle
me and all I kn of marine shop do have to travel to the house/ boat to give a price. I try to add the time doing so into the price of the job, bt when you don't get the job you wasted your time anyway .
sometimes you got to cut a customer free and maybe wrong it feels good too
Quotesometimes you got to cut a customer free and maybe wrong it feels good too
I do seek to have "win/win" relationships with my customers. Almost always I'm able to achieve this.
I've met a few folks over the years who have to have a win/lose relationship. They need to win as much as they need you to lose. Even in the most trivial of interactions. Fortunately in my very small slice of the universe they are few and far between.
gene
The talk about lowering prices reminds me of a post I started back a few years ago, you can see it here- http://www.upholster.com/upholstery-forum/index.php?topic=4457.0
The author gave examples of how changing prices to fit customer's needs, time of day, year etc. can benefit both the business and the customer. Many businesses do this all the time and I don't see anything wrong or suicidal for an upholstery shop to lower prices in slow seasons. A boat owner for instance can be given an incentive to bring their boat in earlier in the season for a discount. But the discount has to have a time limit, so when busy season kicks in, the shop is not pushing profitable work out of the way doing work at pre-season prices. It would have to be spelled out in advance, something like "This special price will be honored up until X date." I think it's important that any reduction in price be presented as a discount and for a specific reason, The regular price has to be stated so the customer knows they are getting a price break and is not led to believe that this is the regular price they can get any time they choose to come back.
Rich
Rich good idea, It sounds good to show regular bid and then give the discount the "ad" treatment during that certain period. The bigger distinction on paper does go a long way, good tip.
I'm in tune with the 30 day estimate and then a sign up, this "signup" is when the material deposit is made, only with this procedure would the client get on the schedule! I hope this is not to harsh but clear.
I think many here have done something in seasonal promotions, weather it is actually a structural business move or geared more for the customers in a specific way.
I would be curious to hear a bit more with tried experiences.
Floyd
We used to do a July special to move more business into the shop during the off season. I dropped that practice this year and we are still busy.
In regards to customers, I will drop one like a hot potato if they are nasty to me or my wife. I will not tolerate rude behavior in a person in public nor in our business. I will starve to death rather then be blackmailed by a customer " I will tell my friends - or - I will post on the forums ". Screw em. At that point I give them my competitors phone number and tell them to piss off.
99 % of our customers are great to work with but we typically get one or two a year who are a royal PITA. I have found that if they are a pain before they order, they will be a time consuming pain after the sale.
Chris
Quote from: Mojo on June 29, 2016, 05:39:29 pm
I have found that if they are a pain before they order, they will be a time consuming pain after the sale.
Chris
Etch that one in stone, I've found it to be true just about all of the time. They are simply not worth the effort.
Rich
Quote from: Rich on June 30, 2016, 04:47:47 am
Quote from: Mojo on June 29, 2016, 05:39:29 pm
I have found that if they are a pain before they order, they will be a time consuming pain after the sale.
Chris
Etch that one in stone, I've found it to be true just about all of the time. They are simply not worth the effort.
Rich
I had one that asked me a million questions about how I was going to load her furniture on my truck. I told her thanks but no thanks.
And my favorite story is about the woman who agonized over every last detail before finally selecting a fabric. Then as she started to walk out of my shop, she noticed a loose thread glistening in the sunlight on her chair that I hadn't even stripped down yet. She turned around, came back in, and bent over her chair to bite the loose thread off. Her friend asked "Why are you doing that? He's going to take all that off anyway".
She said "Yeah, I know..........but I wouldn't be able to sleep tonight thinking about that loose thread."
I immediately re-loaded her chair back into her car and sent her on her way.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjlwatsonconsulting.typepad.com%2F.a%2F6a0133f49a611c970b01bb07ba8e8e970d-pi&hash=18b96f7071575e902399311df03ceb38)
QuoteSo if you're a hard to please...
I'm pleased that they used the contraction for 'you' and 'are' instead of the posessive form of 'you'.
I'm displeased that they have either failed to insert an object of the indefinite article 'a', or they just don't speak no good English.
gene
Quote from: gene on June 30, 2016, 04:20:53 pm
QuoteSo if you're a hard to please...
I'm pleased that they used the contraction for 'you' and 'are' instead of the possive form of 'you'.
I'm displeased that they have either failed to insert an object of the indefinite article 'a', or they just don't speak no good English.
gene
Say what?
Rich
QuoteSay what?
Keith posted a picture of a note that addressed the issue of pleasing customers. I replied with a very funny comment regarding what about that note was pleasing to me and what about that note was displeasing to me.
If you failed to get my humor, Rich, you're just like most other folks.
:)
gene
I just barely made it out of HS and that was 44 years ago. I to wanted to say to Gene, " run that by me again ?"
My comprehension is - well never mind ! Rich nor I wanted to encourage you but I think Virginia might take a turn at interpretation ?
SA
What Gene is saying (and correctly I might add), is that it should've read:
So if you're a hard to please customer, please just turn around and go somewhere else.
Or it would've been more acceptable if it had read:
So if you're a "Hard to please", please just...........
I took it to mean the noun (object) was implied.
In the grand theme of thing's [sic] that don't [sic] bother myself [sic] like [sic] other things do.
It is said [passive voice which [sic] should be avoided] that when someone tried to correct Winston Churchill about ending a sentence in a preposition, his response was, "That is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put."
Steve, don't want to be a grammar/punctuation cop. ; )
I thought the grammar was not well done but the older I get, the worse my grammar gets. I need a refresher with good ole' Mr. Krall. Ugh I detested that man but he taught me to diagram a sentence back in the day.
Seriously, I thought that the note was funny.
Translation: if you are a PITA customer, we don't want your business.
I thought Gene's remarks were both clever and funny. Sorry if anyone was offended by them as I don't think that was his intent.
Think the fireworks are over for the night. WHo hoo. Hope that my dogs will now go out and pee so that I can get my much needed beauty sleep.
Virginia
QuoteWinston Churchill
Nancy Astor and Winston Churchill seemed by all accounts to hate each other with a passion. At a dinner function one evening Churchill was his usual inebriated self. Churchill lived by the moto "Booze is good." Nancy Astor was, as usual, discusted with Churchill.
Anyway, this is one of my favorite quotes by Churchill:
Nancy Astor: "Sir, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."
Winston Churchill: "Madame, if you were my wife, I'd drink it!"
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QuoteI thought Gene's remarks were both clever and funny. Sorry if anyone was offended by them as I don't think that was his intent.
Isn't it amazing where our society has come with "offending" people. It used to be that if I was offended, that was my responsibility. Today it's your fault!
Peter Bogghosian is a professor of Critical Thinking at Portland State Universty. In a recent interview he said he had an upcoming meeting with a vice chairperson of the university. The purpose for the meeting: he was giving a class lecture and he referred to an inanimate object as "he" and he was reported to the university by a student for sexist speech.
gene
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on July 01, 2016, 09:06:36 pm
Steve, don't want to be a grammar/punctuation cop.
Back in the day before this new fangled interweb, the term "functional illiterate" was quite common.
Many people functioned quite well in society without ever having mastered even reasonably proper English spelling and sentence structure.
But then one day, Al Gore handed each and every one of those people a keyboard. He didn't add any provisions like "But you have to learn how to use it right!"
People just started mashing buttons.....and away we went.
There are many Facebook posts that I find very difficult to read. The spelling is horrible, and many sentences go on for 3 or 4 paragraphs without even so much as a comma. Somebody will make a critical remark about it, and they immediately get accused of being a "Grammar Nazi".
The poor punctuation and spelling instances on this forum is actually quite minimal. Sure, there's the occasional misuse of their, there, and they're.........where, were, and we're..........your and you're.......to and too........and there is DEFINITELY no "A" in definitely. Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.
If anyone thinks that I'm inferring that your grammar is poor, I'm not............I'm implying (you're inferring).
Quote from: sofadoc on July 02, 2016, 07:11:15 am
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on July 01, 2016, 09:06:36 pm
Steve, don't want to be a grammar/punctuation cop.
Back in the day before this new fangled interweb, the term "functional illiterate" was quite common.
Many people functioned quite well in society without ever having mastered even reasonably proper English spelling and sentence structure.
But then one day, Al Gore handed each and every one of those people a keyboard. He didn't add any provisions like "But you have to learn how to use it right!"
People just started mashing buttons.....and away we went.
There are many Facebook posts that I find very difficult to read. The spelling is horrible, and many sentences go on for 3 or 4 paragraphs without even so much as a comma. Somebody will make a critical remark about it, and they immediately get accused of being a "Grammar Nazi".
The poor punctuation and spelling instances on this forum is actually quite minimal. Sure, there's the occasional misuse of their, there, and they're.........where, were, and we're..........your and you're.......to and too........and there is DEFINITELY no "A" in definitely. Affect is a verb, effect is a noun.
If anyone thinks that I'm inferring that your grammar is poor, I'm not............I'm implying (you're inferring).
Years ago, both Bob & I posted on a Huskers fan web site. I was one of the first women to be accepted as a knowledgeable fan, probably because I didn't fess up to being a chick until they knew I was a serious fan and didn't think that I was posting because I thought that "fill in the blank with any current player" is dreamy. Anyway, Bob's pet peeve was not knowing the difference between lose and loose. I don't know how many times we saw this posted: "I sure hope that the Huskers don't loose today." I could see Bob's BP rise at least 50 points every time lose was misspelled. The two, to and too, your and you're kind of get stuck in my craw but the older I get the easier it is to just let it go. Walk on by, nothing there to see attitude I've adopted.
Virginia
Yeah, forgot about lose and loose. Also choose and chose.
And it drives me crazy when someone says "I'm going to sale my car". Then they run an ad saying "For Sell".
with me it's people wanting me to borrow them money. [If I do I am lending---they are borrowing] and people aksing (pronounced axing) a question.
Quote from: Darren Henry on July 02, 2016, 09:26:06 am
with me it's people wanting me to borrow them money. [If I do I am lending---they are borrowing] and people aksing (pronounced axing) a question.
My helper never says "Can I
borrow $10?"
Instead, he'll say "Can I
use $10?"
In his mind, the term "borrow" might imply that repayment is expected.
A customer wants 10 boxed cushion covers and says, "You can just whip that out, can't you?" Sure, during my lunch break.
-----------------------------
Business
It is NOT pronounced BID NISS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXcrpnmq8ak
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If it wasn't for pet peeves I don't think I would have anything to complain about?!? I guess I could complain about not having anything to complain about.
gene
don't forget about ordinance, the stuff you put in guns and cannons.
And I'm waiting for a sports interview that happens without a liberal serving of "you know." I did some work for a professional football lineman a few years ago. Despite being a mountain of a guy, he is fairly well-spoken in interviews.
Has this topic drifted far enough yet?
Well, I have to admit that for some reason, I totally missed hammer's photo. Gene's comment did make more sense after I read the sign in the photo.
But sheesh!, it's amazing the things that get the most commented on in many forums.
Rich
Quote from: Rich on July 03, 2016, 06:17:55 pm
But sheesh!, it's amazing the things that get the most commented on in many forums.
All the upholstery topics have been beat into the ground.
It's a long weekend, no one is working but yet have time on their hands to kibbish (kibbitz???) a bit. Love the word but not Jewish so not sure how to spell it, hope y'all get the idea.
Happy 4th of July all!
Virginia
Happy Independence Day y'all
Quote from: Virgs Sew n Sew on July 04, 2016, 05:29:06 am
It's a long weekend, no one is working but yet have time on their hands to kibbish (kibbitz???) a bit. Love the word but not Jewish so not sure how to spell it, hope y'all get the idea.
Happy 4th of July all!
Virginia
I grew up in Brooklyn-it's kibbitz and if you do it, you're a kibbitzer.
Rich
Thanks for the info Rick. I don't like to intentionally use the wrong word.
So did you grow up a Dodgers Fan or did you "Come over to the dark side" and root for the Mets?
Virginia
I think the Dodgers left Brooklyn when I was still quite young. I was never much of a sports fan, but a friend that lived across the street was a die-hard Yankees fan, we used to collect baseball cards and even went to a Yankees game once.
Rich