http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE
Oh man..... :(
I was going to bring this up in the "Business" forum. Has anyone analyzed the small business tax credit for buying "group health" for employees? This year it's 35% of premiums and next year it's 50%. BUT, as far as I can tell, business owners are excluded. It appears you have to have employees to qualify and that corporate owners are not employees, even though your corporation may give you a W2 at the end of the year.
I was hoping to buy a small group policy rather than private insurance, but it appears that's off the table without paying full cost with no tax credit, regardless of corporate or personal income.
June
"Oh man" is right.
Not knowing that the two are one and the same is about as lame and out of touch as it gets. Wow.
I don't get it, and many people in Australia don't. Why would you not want health care for everyone?
Scotty, the truth is, we do. I don't think there's anyone out there who will tell you our system is good as-is. Our system is broken and I guess we have to start somewhere, but the cost is the biggest issue I believe most people have.
You can read all about it here... (interesting, since the Heritage Foundation is where this whole idea got started).
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/05/obamacare-tax-subsidies-bigger-deficit-fewer-taxpayers-damaged-economy
Oh, and the marriage penalty - a couple in their 60's, making $62 grand a year combined, divided equally - if they divorce, will get over $11,000 per year in subsidies to buy insurance. They can still live together and own property together, just do a legal divorce so they can file individual tax returns. I predict the lawyers doing "quickie" divorces will gain a windfall in the next 6 months.
But, like I said, we have to start somewhere and I'm sure we'll see lots of fixes over the next few years.
June
Scotty, the idea of "individual rights" has been played up by the very industries that will benefit most from "free enterprise" (think guns and healthcare). The notion of the "greater good to society" has been cast as the demon in the shadows... can you guess by whom? There is an increasingly powerful "lobby" in this country... some of us consider it the 4th branch of our system of government, and they're skilled at using ADVERTISING as the way to strike fear into the hearts of the very people that you saw on the linked YouTube film; people who don't read and "take their news" from cable TV networks and never raise their eyes from the furrow in front of them.
Cost is a consuming problem. But those very same people outlined above can't wrap their heads around the notion that ONE system for ALL would instantly level the field. And they can't wrap their minds around the idea that if EVERYONE pays into the system the price comes down for all. Right now, providing insurance coverage for employees is a huge write off for major corporations... so the beneficiaries think of their health care as "free". And the overwhelmingly powerful lobbyists (bolstered and further enriched by recent Supreme Court rulings) can deluge those very same ignorant voters with messages of "increased taxes". Of course, none of those voters bothers to do the arithmetic and compares the increase in taxes to whatever they have to pay out of pocket to further fund their health care. In general, most of them are too ignorant of how their democratic republic operates to see that they're basically voting against their own best interests.
But there is no way in hell we'll ever rid ourselves of the healthcare lobby in the near future (too much money involved). We NEED single payer, national health care (for all people and the MILITARY!) and we need to get real and understand that we have to deploy it intelligently... start at the cradle and BUILD good health and be willing to look honestly at what's important in the last years of life. We can't have it all; we have to make tough choices... will those choices be in favor of a privileged few or for the 50+ million who presently can afford nothing? The present plan isn't perfect, but at least President Obama did something.
22 years ago, my Kiwi roommate and I were discussing nationalized healthcare in her country. I asked how such a program managed to keep costs low when medical malpractice lawsuits were jacking up medical costs in the USA.
She explained that people were allowed to sue only with the permission of the government. Something had to have gone REALLY wrong for a lawsuit to be allowed to go forward -- the NZ version of medical malpractice reform, which (according to my roommate) was very successful.
As for the USA... is anything changing? Without some kind of medical malpractice reform HERE, how can a national healthcare program possibly be successful? This isn't a Republican vs. Democrat issue -- it's a very real bipartisan concern that isn't being addressed.
Quote from: bobbin on October 02, 2013, 03:58:33 pm
... start at the cradle and BUILD good health
Most kids now live out of a burger sack, or a pizza box.
I recently chaperoned a group of teens at a nice restaurant where they were served a quality meal. Most of them just stared at it. One of them even covered his mouth to hold back the vomit. Much like dogs who've been spoiled by table scraps, these kids don't even recognize nutritious food as something that's even edible. An hour after we left the restaurant, they all wanted to stop at fast food joints. One of them went into a Wendy's, and got an order of fries, and a Frosty to dip them in. He said that he routinely has this combo as his evening meal.
Childhood obesity is already reaching crisis levels in America. It's only going to get worse.
What can our government do? Outlaw junk food? Ban fast food joints? Good luck with that.
We try to educate kids about proper nutrition, but we can't really be frank with the little darlings, lest we damage their delicate psyche.
You may think that I'm already straying off-topic. But I don't think I am. The best healthcare plan is "Don't get sick". America has got to change our children's eating habits, or they'll all have Diabetes before they hit 30.
Interesting times we live in... First the "information" age - most of us saw the birth of the personal computer, and now major social change.
Well said, Bobbin. There's no easy answers. As stated, too much money involved with LOTS of personal agendas on the parts of politicians. And the way they're behaving now is downright embarrassing. I'm starting to think they were all raised on Dr. Spock.
Dede, in South Florida, malpractice insurance got so high a huge percentage of the doctors simply stopped carrying it. I don't have a single Dr. who is insured anymore. They all have big signs in the lobby (apparently that's the requirement if you are not insured). If you want to sue them you might get the Mercedes, but not enough cash to retire.
And Sofa's dead on with the unhealthy lifestyles of the kids here. We don't see too many obese kids in this part of S. Fla (and probably not in S. California either) because it's such a beauty/body conscious society around here. It has become a rite of passage to get a nose job in middle school. Bandages and black eyes are worn proudly to school. But I know it's a serious problem in this country.
Hang on y'all, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.
June
Quote from: bobbin on October 02, 2013, 03:58:33 pm
Scotty, the idea of "individual rights" has been played up by the very industries that will benefit most from "free enterprise" (think guns and healthcare).
I like individual rights
Quote from: bobbin on October 02, 2013, 03:58:33 pm
In general, most of them are too ignorant of how their democratic republic operates to see that they're basically voting against their own best interests.
We are not a democratic republic, congo is. And the useless turd, that is currently president of the U.S.A. would fit in well there.
Eric
Politics aside, did anyone figure out if my assessment is correct that the owners of a small corporation without "regular" employees can not get a tax credit?
June
To get back to sofas original post. This is, shall I say disappointing to say the least. To think these grown people don't know that these are the same is disheartening. And yet these same people have strong objections to one or the other not knowing what they are talking about at all.
Now on to the sidelines of the thread.
This health care plan is a start. Simple enough. Is it the best we can do? I doubt it. But it is a start. I know many people will say and have said it is not a good thing. Well lets look at this way. Do we want to continue on with the unfairness of healthcare? I for one don't want to. Obama did something about it. I'm not going to say it is the best thing but it is something of a start. I for one would like to see a universal plan something like Canada has in place. How it could be done here is beyond me and most if not all of us here. But it is decent and simple. The people get the care they need, the Dr.s get paid by the government for the services they do and it works. But I digress. We are talking about Obama Care Vs the Affordable Care Act. Which do you prefer? ( Unbelievable ).
thanks Sofadoc, nice infomercial and jimmy should be rewarded.
June i was looking at it also, and its saying based in 2014 you paying 50% of employees premium to get a max 35% credit and it is better with 10 employees with there annual of 25g or less. I just scaned through but it doesnt make sense to me removing the old benifit, maybe they had a typo and meant share holders arent elgible.
Paul im in agreement with you, its a start of organizing maybe not better for all. but its at least a direction reminds me of my first time manuvering thru a round-a-bout instead of the familar traffic light at home is the US, intimidating at first then pretty darn smooth. well im gonna go back to lookin on that there site.
Remember back when liability insurance was NOT required for drivers?
Remember how many people didn't have any?
Remember how those people were outraged when the government took away their freedom to choose, and forced them to provide liability insurance?
Then we took away even more "freedom" when we forced them to buckle their seatbelt. Or go outside to smoke.
If I gave my customers the option of just putting a new cover over the old one, many of them would take that option. Then they would be unhappy with the finished product.
In a perfect world, everyone would have the freedom to make their own decisions. But in that perfect world, those people would make mature, rational decisions that would not only benefit themselves, but others around them.
Unfortunately, many laws that govern our land must protect people from themselves. They can't be trusted to make the right choices on their own. In fact, they can't be trusted to even MAKE a choice at all.
Speaking of choices........I'm still torn between Affordable and Obama :D
I think thats when i got po'd because i had always had the 3,6 or 12 month option to pay.
now it was a monthly option ?? didnt quite make sense, of course you could show your months worth of insurance card to the DMV personell and get a year or more license.
Looks like insurance is going to be under: self employed health insurance deduction. Max limit in a profit year not on an A schedule. Figure your self employed income, subtract the 50% deduction for self employment taxes, and subtract any retirement contributions made to SEP-IRA, Simple IRA or Keogh plan. The remainder is your allowable deduction for health insurance expense.
Kinda like voting and working, only 50% are doing it that are able.
One of the biggest problems in the USA with our medical system is that it is a for profit industry and we allow health agencies to rape us. A perfect example is my chemo drug which runs around $ 4,000 per month. The same drug runs $ 500 per month in Europe on the open market. A hip replacement in Germany is around $ 20 K. In the USA it is well over $ 100 K.
We have three hospitals within a 10 mile radius of our home yet the population is small enough for one big one. We have MRI machines on every corner and imaging centers all over the place. We have emergency rooms being used as redi care clinic's where a sniffle is treated and the insurance company charged $ 1,000.
People will claim we have the best medical care in the world yet we are far below Canada, Australia, Japan, Europe and other countries in regards to longevity. Most of the new cancer discoveries are being made in other countries. With the new ACA there were scare tactics of " death panels " and people going without surgeries, etc....... BullSH**.
We are the richest nation in the world yet one of the very few where if your hit with a catastrophic illness such as cancer then everything you worked hard for ( home and other assets ) can be gone in a flash.
I find our medical system is based on who can pay and who cannot versus who is in need. Talking about death panels, the insurance companies have run them for years. If your treatment is going to be expensive they will do whatever it takes to keep from approving and paying. I have seen dozens of fellow patients in my support group die because they could not afford treatment or the drugs.
Say what you want about other countries health systems but no one goes without treatment and no one loses their home and valuables. The ones who have to wait for surgeries are the same ones who have hobbled around on a bad knee for 3 years and then decide to get it fixed. There is so much mis-information out there.
I have a question for you Scotty and some of the Canadians we have on here. How many friends or family members have you heard of going without needed surgery or medications ?
Do I think ACA is the answer ? Nope. But it is a start.
Chris
Eric, a republic is a form of government where elected officials represent the majority of the population. In the United States the population votes (democratically) for officials to represent the views and desires of the general population. The United States is a democratic republic, also considered a constitutional republic. ("...and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all". I have quoted it as it was written, BTW, not in the amended version which was the product of the Eisenhauer administration)
Count me in with the rest of you on the subject of health care. Lots of questions, no easy answers, and it isn't going to be pretty before it's finally all hashed out. So many other countries administer health care so much more effectively than does the USA, and as Mojo pointed out, their outcomes are leagues ahead of those in our country. It's all about compromise and tough decisions and by definition that means that no one is going to get everything that they want. That's life!
On the subject of individual rights... I like them too! But when the rights of the individual stand in the way of the greater good and safety I think we need to look carefully at amending them to work in concert with changing times. Great example with liability insurance for motorists. I offer the example of immunization against easily controlled diseases... in spite of no evidence that immunization causes autism many families refuse to immunize their kids. Look at the recent outbreak of measles in TX (I think) when Kenneth Copeland's organization spoke out against immunization... there was a fully preventable outbreak of it. Silly, silly, silly! no thought for the greater good, whatsoever. And now those who refuse to immunize their kids are whining and suing doctors who refuse to allow unimmunized children into their practices. Whose rights are being infringed? is not the doctor within his rights to refuse to allow potential carriers into his workplace and infect the most vulnerable members of the population? (I think he is well within his rights, frankly, and is considering the greater good).
"I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ
gene
OK Gene, you're not being an obedient worker. I'm going to have to tell the owners. :(
BTW In all fairness, I'm sure that the Jimmy Kimmel show probably asked over a hundred people that question, and then only showed us the stupid ones.
The death of George Carlin was a loss for the USA. That last performance was really raw. Some of it was pretty crude. But he always called it the way he saw it, he was always articulate, and his humor was not for dummies!
Thanks for a great link, Gene.
Yep - Jimmys going for ratings. The public votes for the folks who make the changes. Majority rules right ! Sure health care was struggling but why couldn't the law makers tweak the system to help low income families and waive pre-existing issues. I'm worried that the government won't do a good job. Look at their current balance sheet - everything is in the red. Every thing takes much too long to do with them involved. Now will the government also cover - prescription drugs, dental, eyes, chiropratic care, pet care, ........ there's no end to people's needs. Free market services can handle this better if they weren't so greedy. They have to be run cleaner, more honest, less greed to survive rather than the government doing it for us. We're not doing a good job with services and this ACA is the government solution for our mis- steps.
SA
One word, Steve: L O B B Y I S T S. And they damn sure don't represent those of us struggling. I share your worries.
One problem I see. No president is going to unveil such a drastic change during their FIRST term. Because if they do, they won't get a second term. So they wait until their second term. By then, they've got 4 years tops to make it work before the next president comes in and blows the whole thing up and starts over.
I'm afraid that there are too many people with their own agendas to ever allow Obamacare to get off the ground.
Sofa Doc
Tell me why if the ACA is the solution .... congress opts out and anyone else with a phone line into the white house can get a waiver. If it's going to work all should be on board. I'm not against universal health/ single payer if I though it could be run efficiently - it seems it's own creators don't have faith in the program.
SA
L O B B Y I S T S
Pretty simple.
Quote from: SteveA on October 03, 2013, 09:37:38 am
Sofa Doc
Tell me why if the ACA is the solution .... congress opts out and anyone else with a phone line into the white house can get a waiver.
A G E N D A S
Even simpler
But please don't get me wrong. I'm neither defending nor condemning ACA. I think that 10 years from now, some highly tweaked, hybrid form of ACA will still be in place.
But by then, no one will even remember it's origin. And someone else will get all the blame/credit for it
Agendas are set by lobbyists. The uncontrolled power of paid lobbys is so out of control that it basically runs "our" government now. And laws that used to keep them "sort of" within bounds (you used to have to actually declare who you were and who paid you) have now been overturned by the Supreme Court and they're now free to run amok and wreak whatever havoc they may.
Et voici! nous sommes ici! (and here it is, we're here!)
Bobbin, I'm well aware what form of government we are. And it's not a democratic republic. In your doctor example, he is excersising individual rights. I agree, the people who didn't immunize should quit there whining.
I agree Steve, we should have tried a couple of your described things, instead of passing a bill so we can find out what is in it (per pelosi).
Eric
Please Eric, explain to me what exactly our country's form of government is...
Bobbin, we are a Republic, some may say Constitutional Republic. No where in the constitution does it mention democracy.
Eric
I already told you that. You didn't believe me. But you haven't explained to me how that works. I think, Eric, if you'd gone a bit deeper than a cursory Google search you'd have provided a more extensive reply. I contend that I called your bluff and you're back peddling now. I never mentioned "democracy". I used "democratic"... . I further contend that you don't know the difference between the two.
Please explain to me why our form of government is NOT a democratic republic.
Bobbin, again like your comments a year ago towards the tea party, you accuse and supply misinformation. I have no need to bluff nor backpedal, as I'm 100% positive the U.S.A. is a Republic. The pledge of allegiance does not say to the democratic republic, it says to the Republic. I know many on the left believe us to be a democracy, however, that is not case. I have done a cursory search on google as accussed, and provide a link to the Constitution. Please note article 4, section 4. Note it does not say democratic republic. I can offhand state, that there is the democratic republic of congo, and I believe one of the korea's is also.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
I do know the difference between a Republic and a democracy. Here in Wisconsin, Democracy voted to not allow gay marriage. How a Republic would have voted - we don't know.
Now, I'm happy to discuss health care, canvas, or business.
Eric
Quote from: Mojo on October 03, 2013, 05:43:14 am
. A perfect example is my chemo drug which runs around $ 4,000 per month.
I just found out a old friend of mine from NH has cancer and he gets a shot every month or so that the cost is $11,000
Quote from: bobbin on October 02, 2013, 03:58:33 pm
Right now, providing insurance coverage for employees is a huge write off for major corporations... so the beneficiaries think of their health care as "free". And the overwhelmingly powerful lobbyists (bolstered and further enriched by recent Supreme Court rulings) can deluge those very same ignorant voters with messages of "increased taxes". Of course, none of those voters bothers to do the arithmetic and compares the increase in taxes to whatever they have to pay out of pocket to further fund their health care. In general, most of them are too ignorant of how their democratic republic operates to see that they're basically voting against their own best interests.
so true there Bobbin a buddy of mine a teamster has this way of thinking , his father after he retired was appalled at his new cost for healthcare now that he wasn't working
I wish this forum had a feature where you could vote up comments.
Yes, I hate 8 posts whose only content is
+1Quote from: jojo on October 03, 2013, 08:34:12 pm
I wish this forum had a feature where you could vote up comments.
Interesting reading your opinions. Our health care over here is far from perfect, but if I have a heart attack but I'm flat broke i know I am going to get top treatment and not pay a cent. On the other hand, ten years ago I had to have the bone in my ear drilled out, it was not a priority operation so i went on a waiting list, took 2 years to get the first one done another 3 to do the second. A day before second op i got a phone call to say I was bumped as there were to many people on the list that had cancer, I was like whoa there's a list for cancer? Yep 3 months, I went out and signed up for private health cover that week, I'm happy to pay $50 a month for private.
I think our whole welfare system is different to yours, I am under the impression that if you own your own house you would not be allowed to collect welfare. Over here the house that you live in cannot be deemed an asset, so over here you can live in a million dollar house but if you are of low income you will get free healthcare or unemployment benefits if you lose your job without fear of losing your family home.
I can see that healthcare for you guys is a hard nut to crack, but along with your individual right to carry a gun, you need healthcare :)
Quote from: Mojo on October 03, 2013, 05:43:14 am
One of the biggest problems in the USA with our medical system is that it is a for profit industry and we allow health agencies to rape us. A perfect example is my chemo drug which runs around $ 4,000 per month. The same drug runs $ 500 per month in Europe on the open market. A hip replacement in Germany is around $ 20 K. In the USA it is well over $ 100 K.
I have a question for you Scotty and some of the Canadians we have on here. How many friends or family members have you heard of going without needed surgery or medications ?
Chris
We have surgeon down here that does hip replacements for americans, it is way cheaper for them to fly here be operated on and rent a house for 3 months to recuperate. The same doctor did an arthroscope on my shoulder through the public heath system 1 week wait didn't cost a cent, could have had it done private but there was a 3 month wait ::)
Can't say I can, sometime have to wait for surgery if it's non urgent, the system is getting stretched to it's limits as our population explodes.
Scotty thats because we over here heard it realy nice there, the word got out and people are migrating that direction. I myself like a cold fosters now and then.
good day to ya
We do have a lot of Americans, Canadians and Irish settling here. The population has doubled in 40 years and the government wants even more people. So eventually we will have all the same problems your country has. Not many people drink Fosters, Coopers sparkling ale.
A lot of people go on holidays to Asia for dental work and cosmetic surgery
I dont like going to any pub without trying the local favorite, so l will have the same and being a special season and all toast!
I better stick with the plastic masks over there, because that would take all the vacation time +, fixin this mug.
have a good day
Did you know each Aussie State has their own beer ?
I only know of three but I am sure Scotty can name them all. NSW - Tooheys, Queensland - XXXX, Victoria - VB ( Victoria Bitter ).
Your up Scotty. :)
I haven't had a drop of alcohol since the 80's. Alcohol in any form and even in tiny quantities makes me sicker then a dog. So I am the last person you ever want to take advice from in regards to drinks. :)
They refer to Fosters in most parts in Australia as Billy Goat P***. :) if you want to try an unusual
Aussie drink try a a Shanty. ( part 7-up part beer. )
Chris
sure didnt realize that, sounds like over here for some states. now days with all the micro breweries theres even more, i do recall the 7up and something i made called a slam in 80. its been awhile and will stay awhile. but a cold beer is always a pleasure, recalling october in germany and the festivites its a bit different method over there. they walk and have trains
Good Day
I like beer AND Obamacare. ;D
Queensland-xxxx
New South Wales-Tooheys
Victoria- Victoria Bitter
Tasmania- Cascade ?
South Australia- West End
Western Australia- Emu Export
Northern Territory- Vic Bitter
All these beers have one thing in common for me, I think there terrible.
They are the equivalent to your budweiser, more to do with advertising than good beer.
My pick of beer is anything from coopers in South Australia , Sparkling ale is my favourite, lovingly referred to as the drug in a bottle
Scotty, if I ever make it to Australia I'll share a pint of xxxx with you. Sounds dangerous.
If you ever make it to the USA. I'll buy you an ice cold mug of Yuengling, Americas oldest brewery. I think you would enjoy it. And yes, Budweiser tastes like horse piss.
It only took 3 pages to get completely off topic. Funny thing is I was getting ready to rant my opinions about health care and found a topic I'd truly rather talk about.
And more healthy, Kody. Cheers
QuoteIt only took 3 pages to get completely off topic. Funny thing is I was getting ready to rant my opinions about health care and found a topic I'd truly rather talk about.
We've got our beer, and unless the alcohol industry can stop it, we will have our marijuana. And along with our cable/satellite TV, we will be able to care even less that our elected officials have passed into law a massive change in our society that they did not even read before voting to pass it.
I'm a part of the game also. And you can believe this or not, however, I in no way intend the above to be a criticism, rather, a simple observation of the obvious.
Hey, I bet Alan Watts was a real party killer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMDu3JdQ8Ow
gene