Anyone watched the new tack driver video attached to the ad Ken placed on the top of the forum page ?
I never knew they had this driver, which isnt saying much since I do not do fiurniture. Pretty cool tool. Anyone ever used one ?
Here is the video - http://www.uffytools.com/TH-T-DECO1.html (http://www.uffytools.com/TH-T-DECO1.html)
Chris
Im like you no
We've discussed that very tool here before. You guys were probably busy having one of your wild sex orgies. ;)
The great thing about that particular nailer is, it allows you to load your own individual nails into a canister. You use the same nails that you would normally drive with a tack hammer, while most other pneumatic decorative nailers require a magazine strip of nails that don't match your individual ones. So you're stuck buying special nails that are different from the old standards.
The difference between men and boys?............The price of their toys. :D
I salivate over a tool like that one. But for a small non-production speed one-man shop, I can't justify the cost.
It looks like a wonderful tool. I just wish the guy in the video would've used it properly in his demo. He shot a few nails crookedly into a bare piece of wood, then shot some erratically onto a padded back of an office chair. He makes the tool look like it would be difficult to control. I'm sure that's not the case if it were being demo'ed by an experienced user.
I mean, if you want to sell the tool, put it in the hands of a professional on an appropriate piece of furniture.
I want to make a proposal to the Uffy company. Send me a free one, and I'll make you a kickass video. ;)
I did watch the video. And I remember our discussion on this forum about it. It seems that I am the only one who is able to have a discussion, and a wild sex orgy, at the same time.
That gun costs $596. When I was watching the video on youtube, there is another video with another gun that looks like the nails are fed through a big flexible tube. That gun is $7,000.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11YdEM9Jx5w
If I bought either of those guns I would be trying to put decorative nails in everything, just to try to recover the cost.
I noticed the same thing, sofaD, regarding the guy doing a poor job of nailing. And I did wonder how difficult it would be to use.
gene
Here's one I took in the other day. It looks like the last guy might have used the Uffy nailer........from 10 feet away. :o
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi775.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy33%2Fsofadoc%2Fth_DSC00442.jpg&hash=87988f1387d950c3bbde1ca6494115f2) (http://s775.photobucket.com/albums/yy33/sofadoc/?action=view¤t=DSC00442.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rQXvKoR5TtU&feature=endscreen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=rQXvKoR5TtU&feature=endscreen)
if I did that right; it's a link to Aplus es version of the Uffy. Much better video.I noticed toward the end that the nail actually sticks out of the nose of the gun. Watch the guy put the tacks back in the old holes in the last scene.
At 7 cfm it's quite the air pig. Most 5 horse compressors only give you about 5 cfm at 90 psi.
The only other nailer I've seen was when I checked out that job in Alberta when I closed up a few years ago. The nails where on a plastic strip about 16" long and the magazine curled around the gun like a french horn.He had paid $3000 and preloaded strips were only available out of Italy.
Quote from: Darren Henry on February 16, 2013, 08:36:19 am
At 7 cfm it's quite the air pig. Most 5 horse compressors only give you about 5 cfm at 90 psi.
Glad you brought that up. I had forgot that in our previous discussion. Since air is constantly flowing through the canister, you better have a big tank, or the compressor is going to run non-stop.
My eyes, my eyes! :o :o :o :o
I've only done a handful of decorative tack jobs, but I'd be interested to know how everyone keeps them in line and spaced right. I've sort of settled on using a little gizmo that I got years ago when I made a mail order (pre-internet) hardware order and they sent along a couple of brad holders (pre-pneumatic brad nailers, too). It works nice because I can hold it in position and use the guide as a "reference surface" from the edge of the piece. And it keeps my big ol' fingers out of the way.
Quote from: sofadoc on February 16, 2013, 07:13:17 am
Here's one I took in the other day. It looks like the last guy might have used the Uffy nailer........from 10 feet away. :o
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi775.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy33%2Fsofadoc%2Fth_DSC00442.jpg&hash=87988f1387d950c3bbde1ca6494115f2) (http://s775.photobucket.com/albums/yy33/sofadoc/?action=view¤t=DSC00442.jpg)
Quote from: sofadoc on February 16, 2013, 07:13:17 am
Here's one I took in the other day. It looks like the last guy might have used the Uffy nailer........from 10 feet away. :o
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi775.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy33%2Fsofadoc%2Fth_DSC00442.jpg&hash=87988f1387d950c3bbde1ca6494115f2) (http://s775.photobucket.com/albums/yy33/sofadoc/?action=view¤t=DSC00442.jpg)
Several years ago I did a job for the Elks. I was a member so the labor was free with the understanding some members would help. I stretched the fabric on and taught them how to hammer the brass nails. I showed them how to tap one way or another to get them to line up. The job turned out amateurish for sure, but not nearly as bad as your picture.
QuoteI've sort of settled on using a little gizmo that I got years ago
I bought one of those (or similar at least) where you stuck the 5-6 ? nails into the grooves and go to town. I went back to just laying it out with a nice sharp piece of chaulk. If it's a large run I'll cut a paper template of 5-6 notches at the appropriate intervals for spacing and and use my finger as a guide to draw my "line".
Quote from: kodydog on February 16, 2013, 05:45:04 pm
The job turned out amateurish for sure, but not nearly as bad as your picture.
The lady that brought that piece in is one of my regular customers. I gave her an estimate on it about a year ago. She didn't want to pay that much, so she found a relative who claimed to do upholstery.
She was embarrassed for me to see it. And as it turned out, the relative only saved her about $100 off my original estimate.
Quote from: Darren Henry on February 17, 2013, 07:53:32 am
QuoteI've sort of settled on using a little gizmo that I got years ago
I bought one of those (or similar at least) where you stuck the 5-6 ? nails into the grooves and go to town. I went back to just laying it out with a nice sharp piece of chaulk. If it's a large run I'll cut a paper template of 5-6 notches at the appropriate intervals for spacing and and use my finger as a guide to draw my "line".
I never liked that gizmo. I ended up keeping it in my truck to scrape the ice off my windshield.
Sofadoc,
1. You get snow in Houston?
2. This is probably not the gizmo you're thinking of.
There is a "handle" about 3/4" x 1" x 1/4" in the center. Out both ends is a split arm about 1/4" x 1/4" with different size holes in it.
I tried to post a photo, but the site keeps telling me it can't find the upload path???
Then I tried to find it on the internet. The only ID on it is DBGM - a search on this gets "Depressed Black Gay Men" and a company that makes beer steins. :(
Hammer:
1) Dallas.......not Houston
2) Here's the gizmo that I'm talking about:
http://www.csosborne.com/no777.html
Quote from: byhammerandhand on February 17, 2013, 04:23:13 pm
The only ID on it is DBGM - a search on this gets "Depressed Black Gay Men"
Isn't depressed and gay an oxymoron.
the one I have (had ??) is like the one doc posted. Kind of embarrassing to have a Texan point out it makes a good ice scraper. I should have known that.
Quote from: byhammerandhand on February 17, 2013, 04:23:13 pm
There is a "handle" about 3/4" x 1" x 1/4" in the center. Out both ends is a split arm about 1/4" x 1/4" with different size holes in it.
Then I tried to find it on the internet. The only ID on it is DBGM - a search on this gets "Depressed Black Gay Men"
Maybe if their nailheads were straighter, then black gay men wouldn't be so depressed? :-\
I must have missed this post when I posted mine. Just curious, how much time could the Uffy tool save? Base it on say, one foot of nails.
Rich
Quote from: Rich on February 19, 2013, 07:08:53 pm
Just curious, how much time could the Uffy tool save? Base it on say, one foot of nails.
Good question. I'd love to try one of those bad boys. But I'm looking at $600 for the nailer, and probably another $400 for an air compressor that puts out 7 SCFM. Plus, I'm not sure just how helpful it would be on delicate antiques (which account for more than half of the nailhead jobs that I do).
I was asked by a company in Hickory, NC to use and evaluate one of these guns and here are my findings:
- The swirling motion would scratch the nails that were twirling around the canister waiting their turn to be forced into the nail slot
It was an "air hog"..........you need an extremely large tank to keep it fed
It drove nails into poplar wood with out any problem but maple was a different story
In order to become very proficient, there is a very steep learning curve.........you had to keep your hammer at the ready to "tap" the nails where you wanted to go
My report concluded that it was a great idea but it was not worth the money or the time invested. Steve
I've been quite interested in that nailer, but apprehensive as well. Terry's observations confirm some of my apprehensions. PLUS, I hadn't thought about the swirling motion scratching the heads.
But something occurs to me. So for the sake of argument, let's say for a moment that the nailer works to perfection.
Let's say that it reduces a 3 hour "hand driven" nail job to 30 minutes. And let's say that you have a shop labor rate of $50 hr.
Are you going to charge your customer $125 less?
This is why I don't charge an hourly labor rate. I simply charge what I think the job is worth, regardless of how long it takes (or doesn't take).
Small shops are always wishing that labor-saving factory equipment could be made affordable to them. But what's the point of streamlining your production if it only reduces your billable hours?
Quote from: sofadoc on February 21, 2013, 06:05:03 am
I've been quite interested in that nailer, but apprehensive as well. Terry's observations confirm some of my apprehensions. PLUS, I hadn't thought about the swirling motion scratching the heads.
But something occurs to me. So for the sake of argument, let's say for a moment that the nailer works to perfection.
Let's say that it reduces a 3 hour "hand driven" nail job to 30 minutes. And let's say that you have a shop labor rate of $50 hr.
Are you going to charge your customer $125 less?
This is why I don't charge an hourly labor rate. I simply charge what I think the job is worth, regardless of how long it takes (or doesn't take).
Small shops are always wishing that labor-saving factory equipment could be made affordable to them. But what's the point of streamlining your production if it only reduces your billable hours?
Why should it reduce your billable hours? Do you mean that every time you are able to reduce the hours that go into a job, you lower your price? I see the extra profit from keeping the labor price the same as the reward for becoming more efficient.
Now, if all of your competitors buy that tool also and they lower their price, then you may have to follow suit to some extent.
Rich
Quote from: Rich on February 21, 2013, 06:20:06 pm
Why should it reduce your billable hours? Do you mean that every time you are able to reduce the hours that go into a job, you lower your price? I see the extra profit from keeping the labor price the same as the reward for becoming more efficient.
I don't charge by the hour anyway, so technically, I benefit from any tool or method that reduces my completion time. I'm just speaking hypothetically.
Hypothetical example #1......... A sofa with nailheads that takes 20 hrs. to complete.
Hypothetical example #2......... Same sofa now only takes 17.5 hrs. thanks to the Uffy nailer.
Haven't you reduced your billable hours for that sofa by 2.5? Of course, one might argue that you now have an extra 2.5 hrs. to start the next job.
Just trying to explain why I don't charge by the hour. But we all do whatever works best for us.
[quoteHaven't you reduced your billable hours for that sofa by 2.5? Of course, one might argue that you now have an extra 2.5 hrs. to start the next job.
Just trying to explain why I don't charge by the hour. But we all do whatever works best for us.
][/quote]
I don't think I'd use the term "billable hours" b/c that's what you would use if you WERE charging by the hour. I never communicate my hours to the customer, I price, like you, by the job. I do, from time to time, keep track of my hours so I know where I stand with my time. If I didn't do that, I might continue to price based on an old time that may no longer be accurate for some reason. I use my hours to help me arrive at a price, but time isn't the only factor I use. That's why I say that if my time goes down, with all else being equal, my price stays the same and I realize more profit. The tool has to be paid for with that extra income and like I said, it's the reward I get for investigating and taking a risk with my money. Sometimes, I can lower the time by rethinking a process. That takes time and effort and any (sometimes there's no gain) reduction in time pays off in more income by keeping the price the same. Anyway, that's the way I see it.
Rich
We do a lot of 'time and materials' work. Maybe 60% quotes and 40% hourly. This is due to the goofy jobs we get. Standard jobs we get a lot of are quote with no mention of time. Weird jobs we're unsure of are hourly. Anytime we become 'too efficient' we raise our hourly rate. We do the same job faster but for the same (or a little more) pay.
I think if we had a tool like this we'd have a flat rate charge for tacks. Maybe by the foot? We'd make it affordable and we'd push tacks on anyone that came in. "That dentist chair would look great with hammered tacks. So would that tractor seat!"
We have a stand up air grommeter that was purchased for a contract. Never would have bought it otherwise but now we can sell installed grommets for ยข.25 and still make more than our hourly rate on big jobs.
Rich: OK, I understand your point of view. It sounds like you and I have the same thought process when figuring our rates.
But I know some upholsterers who log their exact time on a piece, and charge a flat rate shop fee accordingly.
But regardless of what formula we use to arrive at our final price, technically we all factor our time in to that amount.
So whether we phrase it that way or not, I guess "When you get right down to brass tacks" (pun intended :D), we all charge by the hour.
Another way to say the same thing is; there is a market out there for just about everything a shop will do. So.............if a tool, at a cost, will enable a shop to save time and they do enough of it, then profits will go up, so will your realized average hourly pay, call it rate.
Example whether I drive tacks with a hammer or air staple, the project cost is what is within the market and we all know which method is faster. So, this thinking applies to the stapler or decorative tack driver, in discussion, buy it if it can be used a signficant enough amount. But, what about the scratching the tack heads? Maybe that problem is fixed?
If I had one job a week requiring, say 50 tacks or more, and it didn't scratch the heads, then I would buy the tool. I need the larger compressor anyway for auto work. Sounds like the nailer would pay for itself fairly fast, potentially.
Doyle
Quote from: DB on February 22, 2013, 06:48:08 am
If I had one job a week requiring, say 50 tacks or more, and it didn't scrare the heads, then I would buy the tool. I need the larger compressor anyway for auto work.
Over half of the time now, when a job comes into MY shop with nailheads, it leaves with double cording (customer's preference). So, I only go through about 3 boxes (1000 per box) a year. That's an average of 58 tacks per week. I can easily install 58 tacks with a hammer in 10 minutes.
If you figure 3000 tacks per year at a rate of 5 tacks per minute, that's about 10 hours per year that I spend installing tacks. Or 12 minutes per week. Realistically, even if the Uffy nailer performed ideally (and we HAVEN'T established that it does) how much time would it shave off of that?
If it sounds like I'm trashing the Uffy tool, I'm not. We should try to support any products that are advertised on this website. I just think that it's geared for shops that are bigger than most of us on this discussion board. I think that I would have to be doing at least 250 tacks per week to justify the cost.
But I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to tools like that one. Even if I don't really need it, I'd still like to have one.
The tack driver would be good for my shop, I too have done double welt by hinting to the customer to go that way, but given a driver like this I wouldn't make as much welt. Welt would take longer than using the driver.
As far as the tool paying for itself the issue is deeper, one has to look at the total picture including tax write offs and tax rate. I need the tax write off, my CPA indicates I need write offs. I could live off the taxes I pay. ;)
More importantly, wish someone would come on line who has used the tool, this scratching the tack heads would kill the whole idea anyway, if true.
Doyle
Do any of you ever use the continuous tack strip stuff that has four fake heads and one real nail hole? (with the metal between the fake nail heads). I never thought it looked professional
Zane
I've never used the tack strip stuff. I think it looks fake.
I don't remember who said this, other than his name starts with a T, and he may have been on Carrscorner, ,many years ago. He said to take a tack hammer and practice putting in decorative tacks. He talked about the angle your wrist needs to make in conjunction with the angle of the tack hammer. I practiced with an old box of decorative tacks.
Anyway, like most folks on this board, I've gotten good enough, and fast enough, that I don't mind using dec tacks. If dec tacks take a bit more time than the tack strip stuff I think it's well worth it.
gene
Many moons ago I talked myself into buying the fake tack strip stuff. Started to use it on a job. After about 5 mins I noticed how bad the stuff looked and ripped it off and threw the whole kit and kaboodle away. The place I now work has a roll of the stuff. Looks like its been siting around, untouched, for about 20 years.
I've seen some factory jobs with the fake trim that look decent because the real nails actually match the fake ones.
But the stuff that my suppliers carry isn't a very close match at all. Every 4th nail sticks out like a sore thumb from 20 feet away. I showed it to my supply salesman. He just shrugged his shoulders while staring at the floor
we have discussed before methods and a consensus that some have in reference to duplicating methods used in the customer's piece when putting it back together and returning it and not trying to re-invent things. On occasion I see chairs such as the one linked below and they often have the cheap nailhead tack strip. I would be inclined to re-do it in the same method. Although, it would be rare that someone would want to pay $400 to recover a $198 chair.
Zane
http://www.popularfurnitureny.com/product_info.php?products_id=807
Quote from: zanepurcell on February 22, 2013, 07:43:49 pm
Although, it would be rare that someone would want to pay $400 to recover a $198 chair.
Believe it or not, it happens around here it all the time. I know it really makes no sense why customers would want to invest that much money in a cheap chair. But it's pretty common around here.
If I ONLY accepted quality furniture jobs, I'd starve. I still do a lot of quality pieces, but not enough to keep the doors open. It's probably about half & half. The profit margins are just as good for the crap furniture, so I really don't care.