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I pay my employees by the hour. I tried commission several years ago. I was tired of some employees walking around looking at the ceiling so I put them all on commission. I thought my probllems were solved untill I started getting comebacks and customers unhappy with our work. This didn't work for me. I have a reputation to uphold. I used to advertise a lot, but not much anymore. Word of mouth took hold and people come in constantly saying " I heard Y'all are the best. I asked 2-3 people and they all said to come here" No matter what I charge, the charges include the best job we can do. I pay most of my employees between $15-$20 per hour. I have one that has been with me since 1976 and another since 1978. The rest over 10 yrs except I have a few that have been there 2-3 yrs. The art to being a good boss is Getting people to do  what you want them to do and them wanting  to do it. Always do what you say your going to do and don't make promises you cant keep.

We have done this before. I have a woodshop in my business. 25'x25' room dedicated to wood working and stain/painting. I got some 1/4" finished plywood like birch or something. I don't remember exactly. I didn't cut the design inside the back pieces. I just made the outside design without all the fancy design cut inside the pieces. It was 8 chairs. I cut them on the ban saw. Thats what the customer wanted. if he had wanted the interior of the piece cut out I probably would use a scroll saw

I have been pricing labor by the piece, but my prices have gone up a bit since I have done some research and found some other shops pricing online. I was charging $450-$500 on a sofa, 400 on a love seat, $350 on a recliner, $300 on a wingback or living room chair. I have raised my prices at least $50. I charge retail on material, my prices is 1/2 that usually. Of course extra for new foam for the cushions, nail heads, spring repair, wood repair, wood refinishing, etc...,, I dont know exactly how to charge for dacron though.

Off the cuff? What is that?

So its off the cuff I take it, for you guys.
Is that what I'm gathering

Floyd

I totally agree. I don't have time to sit there while some lady looks through every sample book I have. They finally pick out something and I call and it has been discontinued! Frustrates the hell out of me! I have told customers to go get their fabric at Joanns or Hobby Lobby, because I don't want to show them everything. I make much more when I supply the material. I have all my samples in a dedicated room, or Showroom. My Daughter is in charge of showing material. I pay her $10 hr plus commision on anything she sells. I charge the customer $10-yd to use their fabric.

Pricing your labor has been the primary focus on this subject.  But, to bring some reality into this pricing thought, how many give detailed estimates or as a starter use ball park numbers?

I have found it is .........well a somewhat screening method toward an actual sale?

Our time is a limited quantity and how we use it does come important.

How is it handled in your shop.........do you detail it off the bat and baby sit the customer through numerous samples/discussions?

Those don't pay for me.......

Doyle

I couldnt get the pics to upload for some reason. I put them on facebook and here's the link to pics of my new Fabric show room. Tell me what Y'all think...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1091055450952671.1073741838.447268731998016&type=3

This is a lot of great information for me. I really appreciate everyone's input on this subject. I wasn't sure if I would get any response at all when I joined this forum and this was my 1st post. I am very serious about my business. I love to go to work evry day. I was getting pretty apathetic with my Auto Upholstey. It made me a good living, but I have been doing it so long (48 yrs)it seems like I have done it all and seen it all. I still get a little excited when certain vintage cars come in the shop. I have always loved it when a customer flips out on the work we do to their car. Starting the furniture business was a good change for me. I feel reenergized and excited to go to work. I love restoring someones family heirloom, but also love doing 100 identical chairs and engineering a system to get them done quickly. We call it  "Gang Bang" I have 3 veteran upholsterers and 2 young guys that all seem to love their jobs.  I read "The art of being a good leader is getting someone to do what you want, and them wanting to do it" My new fabric show Room is almost ready. If I can figure how, I will post pics of it.

The 1.5 hrs is for a 1 piece board car padded headliner. It takes a skilled technition about 1.5 hours all by himslef. 2yds PH material. I have never charged for glue, solvent and cllean top. Thats a good idea though. I'll have to mention that to my son. He oversee the auto upholstery.  Now, you get into SUVs with all the a/c ducts or cars with a sunroof, pillar posts covered, 1/4 panels covered the labor times increae. A bowed headliner is a completly different story. The can get way up there. $500 or more. I just grabbed that out of the air. I have hundreds of labor times attached to almost everything we do in auto upholster and inteior restoration. I worked for months compiling that information and have fined tuned it every since. I used to call around and see what my competitors were charging to make sure I was competetive, but I  quit that a long time ago. I price it the way it makes me money.  Auto upholstery is different from furniture in this way. Car seats involve precise cutting and a lot of sewing and then install the cover. Furniture involve cutting out peices not nearly as precise and very little sewing, but a whole lot of installing. Lot of the new furniture coming out is made different. The arms unbolt and are covered separately and the back unbolts and is covered seperatly cover the arms, cover the back, cover the deck and cushions and bollt it all back together. There are certainly a lot of variables on furniture. Pipping/welt skirts, pattern repeats, foam, dacron, frame repair, spring work etc..... 

Poppy,

When you do a job in hours mentioned (headliner in 1 1/2 hr., sofa that takes 12 hours), do you do those with multiple workers involved?

How many would be assigned on the headliner and the 12 hour sofa?

The rates of completions this fast suggest multiple workers on each project or piece of a larger project.

If two were assigned to t he headliner job (I am surmising - correct me) then the headliner job would actually bid at 3 hours plus materials?  Am I correct how things are computed by your shop rate?  Tend to think so, just don't want to assume though.

So the headliner job would translate into $285 labor and two to three yards plus glue, thinner, and shop cleanup cost?  Two or three yards somewhere around $50 and glue around $20 bucks plus cleanup cost? 

Assuming we are in the ball park on this type of job the cost would run 285 + 50 + 20 bucks totaling $355 plus depending on actual yardage.  Does that sound like a routine cost for the routine car (anymore with the new tech incorporated in autos - fewer are routine)? 

Look at my logic and understanding of or explanation of your presented information and compare with your actual bids.  A headliner job that is typical of these numbers would normally be a 15 or 20 year old car in my shop.   These newer cars just take more time, wiring is embedded in the headliner form and it just takes more time to get one in and out without causing damage.  We haven't included sun visors in this discussion, I do them and that is another project not to sell short on because often they need internal rebuilding.

You have a very interesting business, I know where your city is located from travels in the past, oil country back then.  I agree with the fact that it is easier for a shop like ours to make better off commercial and/or larger volume of repetative work.  I do quite a bit of corporate work and seem to do better off volume as described.  I have one client with 132 different installations work is brought from.

Regarding  Mr. Winters charges, he did a good job of bringing a lot of the details together and what is portrayed in his system is it takes a pretty good review when estimating to cover what work is actually required.  I noticed his range of hours (as mine are also) leads thinking to how challenging it is to nail down the exact number of hours a project would cost -- but his estimate formulas are very impressive with the detail.

My thoughts and sure more about your practices would be very interesting, in reality we are in a very competitive business, not as much between shops but with manufacturers as Asia can provide new as a replacement very cheaply.

Doyle

I found this online. It's a very compressive pricing list. I hope he dont mind me sharing this with Y'all.
http://www.winterssewing.com/node/72

So far I have been pricing houshold upholstey by the piece. I did some market research a few yrs back to see what the going rates are on furniture Upholstery around here are. We we're just getting our feet wet and didnt have a tremendous amount of furniture upholstery jobs.Ok now we are so busy doing all this commercial stuff, it makes the household jobs seem like theres no money being made doing a sofa for $500 labor. My supplier came Monday. I showed him my new fabric show room. He was so impressed he gave me one of his giant sized sample books. He said the book cost him $500, and I am the only one in town that has one. He also told me the going rate is $75 - yd labor. Thats sounds good to me/ A sofa that takes 12 yrs will be $900 instead of $500. I am just curious to see what/how all you veteran upholsterers charge. When I 1st started this I went to see a interior designer and gave my card. She informed me she was getting hers done for $10- yd. I said " I guess you better keep doing that, because I am not interested in giving my work away. Probably some old lady doing in her home. Now i have designers bringing me all sorts of stuff. They like how fast we get it done, but I always put them in front of everyone else. We finished 2 very big jobs last month and had been telling everyone else mid jan before we can do theirs. Those jobs totaled about 150 chairs. One thing I have learned is this. When a someone wants a commercial job done, I drop everything and go right over there and bid the job. It's amazing how some shop owners dont have time to go look and bid. One time I bid on 130 chairs and 65 sofas for a motel. He said :I'll let you know, I have 2 more guys coming to bid on this." The next day he called and said " You got the job, neither one of those other guys ever showed up. I guess the were to bust stapling than to go after that job.

Based on what I'm reading, you really don't need any help at all, but I think the reason you've done well is that you're not satisfied to rest on past performance, rather, you want to make sure you are on top of things. Too many of us in this business consider inspecting their business practices (pricing included) to be drudgery and take the attitude that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That attitude eventually shows up as erosion of profits and only after it's done a good bit of damage to the bottom line.

I see you are not afraid to charge enough to turn a profit. $95.00/hr is much closer to what a good upholstery shop should be charging. I've see posts from those who are afraid to go over $40.00 or $50.00/hr and I wonder how they are still in business.
One thing that interests me is how you are able to take such (what I consider anyway) large orders. It's probably not because you're the cheapest guy in town, I'm sure.
Oh, BTW, very nice website.
Keep on doing what you're doing
Rich

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My Grand Mother started our business in 1948. I cut my teethe at that shop. So many memories. Its cool to see someone else like that. 

As you may remember, my family business goes back to my grandparents in the early 60's.

We've always had a commercial location that is open to the public.

My grandmother would keep a big pot of peas and cornbread near her at all times. And she didn't mind eating while talking business with customers. She would even use the last morsel of cornbread to ream out the sides of the pot in order to get every last pea. She actually spat fragments of cornbread from her mouth while she talked.

Many customers would say something like "Oh.....you're eating.......I'll come back later". Of course, when they came back (if they came back).......same thing.

She also had another habit that I can only assume had become an involuntary reflex. When she needed to call a customer on the phone, as soon as she dialed the last number and it began ringing, she would cram food in her mouth before they answered.

But now, I also have the image of "Shirtless Mojo" etched on my brain.

Pfaff 145? Thats a oldie but goodie. My grandmother used a 145. She started our business in 1948. My stupid uncle sold her old machine. We have several 545's and 2 1245's. Bigger bobbin machines. Nevertheless all Pfaffs ending in 45 are basicly the same machine. The never wear out. You just have to replace the bobbin hook assy once in a while. Try a 6.0 foot. You may also remove the nut on your tension spring and clean the dirt out between those 2 disks. Look at the hook on the bobbin assy, and make sure there isnt a burr on the point of the hook. Try Nymo thread. Nymo seems to work best on all 4 of my Pfaffs.

If the welt foot is too small for the welt cord you are using, the cord will deflect the needle,

I use one size larger foot. i.e 99% of my work is 5/32 welt cord and I use 1/4" welt foot (or my double if required).

I remember back in the old days before air staplers. We used the squeeze the handle guns. Me and my brotheres used to shoot em at each other. It's a wonder we all still have both eye balls. We use Dou-Fast Guns and chinese staples. The duofast 50 series are 20 ga. They have a 1/2" crown and the staple itself is thicker than the 7 series staples we also use. The 50 series work better on vinyl. They wont shoot through the vinyl like the thinner 7 series do. The thing is the 50 series have 5,000 per box and the 7 series have 10,000 per box. I only buy by the case. We shoot a insane amount of staples at my shop. I have some fastco guns for the 7 series and 1 I bought from china to see how it works. I have 1 automatic gun the shoots like a machine gun. Its interesting. I just orderdd 2 new guns from Salco. I bought a new one from Duo-Fast last week for $169. These I just ordered are $60 Ea. Ill see how they work, look here>>>    https://www.stapleheadquarters.com/ItemForm.aspx?Item=PS5016

I did that about 20 years ago. I remember I was charging $35 per hour labor. After adding everything up I found it was costing me about 33 per hour per employee. I immediatly went up to $45. Not too long after that I got a computer and quickbooks. I entered times for everything we did in the car upholstery and trim business. For instance a padded headliner is 1.5 hours and 2 yds of Padded Headliner material. I generally go up 10% per year on everything in the computer. We're up to about $95  hour. I dont have any furniture upholstery prices in the computer. But I will have soon.
I have found some pretty good price lists on the internet.  Google Furniture reupholstery pricing and see some pretty good info and ideas.

We have a website www.fisherautotrim.com and a Facebook page Fisher Auto Trim, Glass, & Upholstery.
I'm in Lubbock, Tx. Population about 275,000 and about 1,000,000 in a 100 mile radius.
Before I went all out in the furniture upholstery business, we would get calls constantly for furniture. We started doing all furniture. Some of my car guys had furniture experience so I wasn't very difficult. I love commercial upholstery jobs. Hospital stuff like waiting room chairs, exam beds, journey pads, and room recliners. We just finished 73 room recliners. Re upholster and new foam in the cushions and refinish the wood arms. Priced at $650 ea. The 1st one took about 1/2 a day. At the end we were doing 6 per day. Restaurant booths and chairs. We pick up 3-5 booth cushions at 8am and have them back by 11. For a standard 48" booth cushion I get $66 labor and 1-1.5 yrs at $39.95. A little over $100 ea. Waiting room chairs $125-$175 labor and 1 yrd fabric, usually crypton or something higher end. A single sofa or recliner are where I don't see much profit. $450-$500 labor on a sofa and $350 on a recliner. 1/2 the time the customer wants to bring their own fabric(Thanks to the internet) I have several Interior decorators bringing me stuff constantly, because we get it done faster than anyone else. We are putting in a fabric show room as I type here. My daughter will be in charge of showing fabrics. I have too much to do to stand there while someone wants to look through every book in the building.
I have 12 other employees. I have one since 1976, and one since 1978. My dad and my son work here as well. Ill attach pics of the hospital recliner