How do you ppprice your labor?

[poppy79424]

I am 3rd genneration in the Auto Upholstery business, and 1st Generation in the Furniture Upholstery Business. We have only been doing furniture for 15 yrs or so. Cars over 50 yrs. I say we I mean my family. Being in the auto upholstery business included cars, trucks, airplanes, and boats. We did do booths and kitchen chairs at times when I was working at Grandma's Shop. A friend of mine is a dental supply salesman and asked me to recover some dental exam chairs. I priced them like exotic car seats and did very well. Long srory short I have 6 full time in my furniture upholstery shop as well as 6 in my auto upholstery and trim shop. I have been pricing sofa's at $450-$500 labor, Recliners $350. I was told today by one of my favorite supplier that I should charge $75 per yard. I am in the process of putting in a fabric show room. Have all my samples displayed in theis very nice big room. He brought me one of those huge fabric books.

[poppy79424]

I searched for this before posting. If this topic is here somewhere I apologize...

[brmax]

Its not, So I would like to start and say congratulations on a family run business that has a great run as you mention. Rock on!
A quick reply, I would want or have to base my own production on hours first per day and that I wish could be a dollar a minute minimum no matter what because the machine time cost or my tool time cost needs to be paid 1st.
My producing the product is my experience in that new or old task and how d long before I can get the meal from it. This requires me at my stage to take only projects with time on my side, this is the art for me ( selecting or going to find my jobs ) call it green or picking your fight. haha!
I cant be sure but probably a time chart per style of chair, or bucket seat task in upholstery magazine! as there is a time standard for the marine fabricator and its different styles of products, and its a guideline.
Now ive broke the ice I hope some of the pros that have been doing it all there life can chime in and throw this marine fabricator a rope.
I truly believe we can be glad your here and share some tips with us.
Thank you
Floyd

[SteveA]

Many variables to consider...... if your labor costs are high enough per yard  ?  Cost per square foot for working space - location - pay rate per employee - how busy are you ?  Only a few mentions but I'd start there and not think about what a supplier says should be your cost.  You have done well keep listening to what your instinct tells you.  There is not a standard cost across the board but here in NY a sofa runs $ 700.00  - $ 1000.00 for labor with up charges from there for new padding, foam, spring work, woodwork, retouching, etc.
SA

[baileyuph]

There are too many variables to give one number or one anything per hour.  You have way more experience than most and already know this, not meant as critical for asking.  I imagine in spite of your experience and background, by asking already agree how difficult it would be to provide a single number and what does the hour include?  There is a lot of time managing a business, outside of actual project business which is significant enough to create a variance in answers.

You have 6 full time in furniture and the same number in auto - does that mean 12 employees or so?  Big business, brings the question of location and how big of population being served. 

Much of reupholstery is being done in homes and the overhead is different in the case.
I have a formal business, major interstate, shopping all around, my overhead could and most likely is quite different and imagine doing this in NY City!  Their cost and for others similar is way high.

So, I haven't answered you question except to say there probably isn't one answer and am thinking you are probably the best expert for the case.

Tell us more about your business - sounds impressive.

Doyle

[poppy79424]

We have a website www.fisherautotrim.com and a Facebook page Fisher Auto Trim, Glass, & Upholstery.
I'm in Lubbock, Tx. Population about 275,000 and about 1,000,000 in a 100 mile radius.
Before I went all out in the furniture upholstery business, we would get calls constantly for furniture. We started doing all furniture. Some of my car guys had furniture experience so I wasn't very difficult. I love commercial upholstery jobs. Hospital stuff like waiting room chairs, exam beds, journey pads, and room recliners. We just finished 73 room recliners. Re upholster and new foam in the cushions and refinish the wood arms. Priced at $650 ea. The 1st one took about 1/2 a day. At the end we were doing 6 per day. Restaurant booths and chairs. We pick up 3-5 booth cushions at 8am and have them back by 11. For a standard 48" booth cushion I get $66 labor and 1-1.5 yrs at $39.95. A little over $100 ea. Waiting room chairs $125-$175 labor and 1 yrd fabric, usually crypton or something higher end. A single sofa or recliner are where I don't see much profit. $450-$500 labor on a sofa and $350 on a recliner. 1/2 the time the customer wants to bring their own fabric(Thanks to the internet) I have several Interior decorators bringing me stuff constantly, because we get it done faster than anyone else. We are putting in a fabric show room as I type here. My daughter will be in charge of showing fabrics. I have too much to do to stand there while someone wants to look through every book in the building.
I have 12 other employees. I have one since 1976, and one since 1978. My dad and my son work here as well. Ill attach pics of the hospital recliner

[MinUph]

Basicly the proper way to figure your hourly charge is to add up all your expenses. Rent, lights, vehicles, insurance payroll and everything else. this will give your your nut. Break the nut into hours worked and you know what you need to make per hour to cover the nut. Then add in your pay, and some pay for the business and you will know what your doing. Not easy but the only way.

[poppy79424]

I did that about 20 years ago. I remember I was charging $35 per hour labor. After adding everything up I found it was costing me about 33 per hour per employee. I immediatly went up to $45. Not too long after that I got a computer and quickbooks. I entered times for everything we did in the car upholstery and trim business. For instance a padded headliner is 1.5 hours and 2 yds of Padded Headliner material. I generally go up 10% per year on everything in the computer. We're up to about $95  hour. I dont have any furniture upholstery prices in the computer. But I will have soon.
I have found some pretty good price lists on the internet.  Google Furniture reupholstery pricing and see some pretty good info and ideas.

[Rich]

Based on what I'm reading, you really don't need any help at all, but I think the reason you've done well is that you're not satisfied to rest on past performance, rather, you want to make sure you are on top of things. Too many of us in this business consider inspecting their business practices (pricing included) to be drudgery and take the attitude that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That attitude eventually shows up as erosion of profits and only after it's done a good bit of damage to the bottom line.

I see you are not afraid to charge enough to turn a profit. $95.00/hr is much closer to what a good upholstery shop should be charging. I've see posts from those who are afraid to go over $40.00 or $50.00/hr and I wonder how they are still in business.
One thing that interests me is how you are able to take such (what I consider anyway) large orders. It's probably not because you're the cheapest guy in town, I'm sure.
Oh, BTW, very nice website.
Keep on doing what you're doing
Rich

[poppy79424]

So far I have been pricing houshold upholstey by the piece. I did some market research a few yrs back to see what the going rates are on furniture Upholstery around here are. We we're just getting our feet wet and didnt have a tremendous amount of furniture upholstery jobs.Ok now we are so busy doing all this commercial stuff, it makes the household jobs seem like theres no money being made doing a sofa for $500 labor. My supplier came Monday. I showed him my new fabric show room. He was so impressed he gave me one of his giant sized sample books. He said the book cost him $500, and I am the only one in town that has one. He also told me the going rate is $75 - yd labor. Thats sounds good to me/ A sofa that takes 12 yrs will be $900 instead of $500. I am just curious to see what/how all you veteran upholsterers charge. When I 1st started this I went to see a interior designer and gave my card. She informed me she was getting hers done for $10- yd. I said " I guess you better keep doing that, because I am not interested in giving my work away. Probably some old lady doing in her home. Now i have designers bringing me all sorts of stuff. They like how fast we get it done, but I always put them in front of everyone else. We finished 2 very big jobs last month and had been telling everyone else mid jan before we can do theirs. Those jobs totaled about 150 chairs. One thing I have learned is this. When a someone wants a commercial job done, I drop everything and go right over there and bid the job. It's amazing how some shop owners dont have time to go look and bid. One time I bid on 130 chairs and 65 sofas for a motel. He said :I'll let you know, I have 2 more guys coming to bid on this." The next day he called and said " You got the job, neither one of those other guys ever showed up. I guess the were to bust stapling than to go after that job.

Based on what I'm reading, you really don't need any help at all, but I think the reason you've done well is that you're not satisfied to rest on past performance, rather, you want to make sure you are on top of things. Too many of us in this business consider inspecting their business practices (pricing included) to be drudgery and take the attitude that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That attitude eventually shows up as erosion of profits and only after it's done a good bit of damage to the bottom line.

I see you are not afraid to charge enough to turn a profit. $95.00/hr is much closer to what a good upholstery shop should be charging. I've see posts from those who are afraid to go over $40.00 or $50.00/hr and I wonder how they are still in business.
One thing that interests me is how you are able to take such (what I consider anyway) large orders. It's probably not because you're the cheapest guy in town, I'm sure.
Oh, BTW, very nice website.
Keep on doing what you're doing
Rich

[poppy79424]

I found this online. It's a very compressive pricing list. I hope he dont mind me sharing this with Y'all.
http://www.winterssewing.com/node/72

[baileyuph]

Poppy,

When you do a job in hours mentioned (headliner in 1 1/2 hr., sofa that takes 12 hours), do you do those with multiple workers involved?

How many would be assigned on the headliner and the 12 hour sofa?

The rates of completions this fast suggest multiple workers on each project or piece of a larger project.

If two were assigned to t he headliner job (I am surmising - correct me) then the headliner job would actually bid at 3 hours plus materials?  Am I correct how things are computed by your shop rate?  Tend to think so, just don't want to assume though.

So the headliner job would translate into $285 labor and two to three yards plus glue, thinner, and shop cleanup cost?  Two or three yards somewhere around $50 and glue around $20 bucks plus cleanup cost? 

Assuming we are in the ball park on this type of job the cost would run 285 + 50 + 20 bucks totaling $355 plus depending on actual yardage.  Does that sound like a routine cost for the routine car (anymore with the new tech incorporated in autos - fewer are routine)? 

Look at my logic and understanding of or explanation of your presented information and compare with your actual bids.  A headliner job that is typical of these numbers would normally be a 15 or 20 year old car in my shop.   These newer cars just take more time, wiring is embedded in the headliner form and it just takes more time to get one in and out without causing damage.  We haven't included sun visors in this discussion, I do them and that is another project not to sell short on because often they need internal rebuilding.

You have a very interesting business, I know where your city is located from travels in the past, oil country back then.  I agree with the fact that it is easier for a shop like ours to make better off commercial and/or larger volume of repetative work.  I do quite a bit of corporate work and seem to do better off volume as described.  I have one client with 132 different installations work is brought from.

Regarding  Mr. Winters charges, he did a good job of bringing a lot of the details together and what is portrayed in his system is it takes a pretty good review when estimating to cover what work is actually required.  I noticed his range of hours (as mine are also) leads thinking to how challenging it is to nail down the exact number of hours a project would cost -- but his estimate formulas are very impressive with the detail.

My thoughts and sure more about your practices would be very interesting, in reality we are in a very competitive business, not as much between shops but with manufacturers as Asia can provide new as a replacement very cheaply.

Doyle

[brmax]

Poppy that's a great find, Stephen is a contributing member here and I consider a leader in the trade.
Very few that spend that amount of time in anything to help the tradesperson and client together.
Clearly an example to follow.
Have a good day everyone
Floyd

[brmax]

I need to ask this and going back relating to my first reply, Does anyone subscribe to an upholstery magazine or any guild that has information on standard times for items.
If a person as me has interest this is in the first needed knowledge ( a time standard to get-r-done ) I would have from the first a method to gauge or measure myself and completed product.
I understand some chat could be in forums and that's fine and appropriate to me, though some measure can be listed for approximate times to complete an upholstery task. I would not want to go off in time n motion stuff now.
More to help this move forward and not get caught and stopped as there are professionals here that could contribute more than they realize. (And many that I haven't seen for awhile that totally Rock!)
Maybe my approach here is blunt but not intended.

Floyd

[poppy79424]

The 1.5 hrs is for a 1 piece board car padded headliner. It takes a skilled technition about 1.5 hours all by himslef. 2yds PH material. I have never charged for glue, solvent and cllean top. Thats a good idea though. I'll have to mention that to my son. He oversee the auto upholstery.  Now, you get into SUVs with all the a/c ducts or cars with a sunroof, pillar posts covered, 1/4 panels covered the labor times increae. A bowed headliner is a completly different story. The can get way up there. $500 or more. I just grabbed that out of the air. I have hundreds of labor times attached to almost everything we do in auto upholster and inteior restoration. I worked for months compiling that information and have fined tuned it every since. I used to call around and see what my competitors were charging to make sure I was competetive, but I  quit that a long time ago. I price it the way it makes me money.  Auto upholstery is different from furniture in this way. Car seats involve precise cutting and a lot of sewing and then install the cover. Furniture involve cutting out peices not nearly as precise and very little sewing, but a whole lot of installing. Lot of the new furniture coming out is made different. The arms unbolt and are covered separately and the back unbolts and is covered seperatly cover the arms, cover the back, cover the deck and cushions and bollt it all back together. There are certainly a lot of variables on furniture. Pipping/welt skirts, pattern repeats, foam, dacron, frame repair, spring work etc..... 

Poppy,

When you do a job in hours mentioned (headliner in 1 1/2 hr., sofa that takes 12 hours), do you do those with multiple workers involved?

How many would be assigned on the headliner and the 12 hour sofa?

The rates of completions this fast suggest multiple workers on each project or piece of a larger project.

If two were assigned to t he headliner job (I am surmising - correct me) then the headliner job would actually bid at 3 hours plus materials?  Am I correct how things are computed by your shop rate?  Tend to think so, just don't want to assume though.

So the headliner job would translate into $285 labor and two to three yards plus glue, thinner, and shop cleanup cost?  Two or three yards somewhere around $50 and glue around $20 bucks plus cleanup cost? 

Assuming we are in the ball park on this type of job the cost would run 285 + 50 + 20 bucks totaling $355 plus depending on actual yardage.  Does that sound like a routine cost for the routine car (anymore with the new tech incorporated in autos - fewer are routine)? 

Look at my logic and understanding of or explanation of your presented information and compare with your actual bids.  A headliner job that is typical of these numbers would normally be a 15 or 20 year old car in my shop.   These newer cars just take more time, wiring is embedded in the headliner form and it just takes more time to get one in and out without causing damage.  We haven't included sun visors in this discussion, I do them and that is another project not to sell short on because often they need internal rebuilding.

You have a very interesting business, I know where your city is located from travels in the past, oil country back then.  I agree with the fact that it is easier for a shop like ours to make better off commercial and/or larger volume of repetative work.  I do quite a bit of corporate work and seem to do better off volume as described.  I have one client with 132 different installations work is brought from.

Regarding  Mr. Winters charges, he did a good job of bringing a lot of the details together and what is portrayed in his system is it takes a pretty good review when estimating to cover what work is actually required.  I noticed his range of hours (as mine are also) leads thinking to how challenging it is to nail down the exact number of hours a project would cost -- but his estimate formulas are very impressive with the detail.

My thoughts and sure more about your practices would be very interesting, in reality we are in a very competitive business, not as much between shops but with manufacturers as Asia can provide new as a replacement very cheaply.

Doyle