Double Needle Machine - Good Business Investment?

[baileyuph]

If your business equipment includes a double needle, it would be interesting to know if the investment has been justified?  Has the machine enhanced through put significantly, justifying the cost of it as an additional machine?

The issue is elevated in this manner as it is expected some business may perform double fell paralled top stitching, french seam to some, with a single needle merely because the double can't be justified, monetarily. 

Moreover, this thread isn't intended to be a "which is better question".  Instead, has the machine acquisition made money?  In essence, if you got it and it is a money maker, how does it happen?

Thanks in advnce,

Doyle

[seamsperfect]

Doyle,
I did really well stitching my french seams with a single needle by eye. I thought why change something that is not broke.    I recently bought a good used double needle 1/4" Mitsu Japanese made machine.  I also bought  a custom made 3/8" spring guide foot as well which I modified to work with the 1/4".    I did not care for it at first just because I was not used to it.   Over time it has increased my production 2 fold.  I will tell you have to careful going around tight corners but well worth it in my eyes.  I avg 10 upholstery kits a month with an occasional local upholstery job,  as you can see my time is valuable and the double needle machine is worth it to me.
Kevin
Single needle

Double needle

[baileyuph]

[I thought why change something that is not broke.    I recently bought a good used double needle 1/4" /quote].





Thanks Doyle

[bobbin]

I have worked in two places that had double needle machines.  The first was an apparel manufacturer and the double needle was used to apply reflective safety tape to jackets and pants.  The machine was a Brother and it was a split needle bar machine, which meant that you could stop one needle and turn corners with it.  It was a very nice, very smooth machine, equipped with puller to keep even tension on the work as it passed under the needles.  While I was not privy to the price of it or the calculations that determined its worth on the floor one thing was a certainty:  for the operation it performed it "saved" two rows of stitching through a conventional single needle, so clearly it was a necessity. 

The other was a long arm double needle equipped with a joiner attachment before the needles and a puller to keep the rather heavy panels moving smoothly as they came out from under the needles.  It was in an awning/marine canvas company and it was used to join all panels.  It was a seriously beefy machine but prone to being finicky as I recall, but it was a time saver without doubt.  Where I presently work all blanks must pass through the basic single needle machine twice, which is time consuming and can become quite fiddly when working with long runs.  It had no option to arrest one needle but for the long straight runs required in awning work it didn't matter.  I have heard through the grapevine that it now sits basically unused in that shop because they've moved on to heat welding runs together; which is generally preferable.  Heat welds don't degrade in the sun and only rarely do they blow apart when done properly. 

Were I to consider purchasing one for topstitching, I would look for the split bar option.  It's the proper machine for the job in question, and if you work on smaller pcs of work I would also consider a post or feed off the arm version so you can get into confined areas with ease. 

[baileyuph]

Bobbin,

Thanks for the insights derived from your experience.  Very articulate!

Split bar, post, and/or cylinder bed for the intricate and smaller piece type work.  Good advice, I can relate.

My requirement is very similar to Kevin's and are experiencing a growth in reproducing original type work on auto seats that incorporate the double top stitching seam.

To this date, like Kevin we have used the single needle quite effectively.  However, looking forward, the economic analysis in play encourages this investigation.  Especially considering a used machine, the direction Kevin embarked on.  A used machine reduces the issue to space and machine adaptaion.

For Kevin:  What does your experience suggest regarding the split bar?  Has your fixed needle width, my understanding, offered any constraints. in auto work?  I suspect your seams do not range from acute to right angles, very often.

In auto most seams are relative straight and sweeping curves unlike garment and other speciality requirements.  Pullers may not be a requirement either, unless canvas becomes a bigger player.  Today, that is a no.

To add, the walking foot is essential for auto leather and vinyl requirements, my thoughts? 

Thanks,

Doyle

[seamsperfect]

Doyle,
The machine I have is not fancy.  I only come across 90° ( I think there are a few in the kits I produce)  curved turns every once in awhile, I usually stop turn the wheel by hand then go back to using my motor.  Mine is not split bar just a basic machine with safety clutch like my Highlead 618.  Perfect example just think of your walking foot with 2 needles spaced at equal distance from the center of the foot.  I use it for leather, micros, cloth and vinyl.  With vinyl you need to keep a light touch in the guidance or the stitch length will become tight around curves.  Basically just let the feet do the work.  I found this same machine used for $2,200.00.  I had bought machines from a guy in SC in the past and I called him up and asked about  used double needles.  He happened to have the same one and he gave it to me at a bargin less than 1k and I drove and picked it up.
Kevin
stitching on foam backed cloth

My old french seams done with single and my eye.

[bobbin]

Doyle, for laughs I think you should go to the Juki website and look at their offerings.  Several of the models feature film demonstrations.  I love snooping around their site to get ideas.  You can always contact someone like Gregg and look through the inventory of used equipment at Keystone. 

I have always been a fan of used equipment.  Sure, they can be quirky but generally speaking if you buy something reasonably "clean" that performs the specified operation you can keep it going with oil and TLC.  If you are patient and know what you're looking for you can find some nice deals out there. 

You can also find double needle machines that perform a chain stitch, though I would have reservations about a chainstitch when dealing with leather or heavier upholstery weight fabrics.  If the chain breaks the topstitching will come out... a less likely occurence with a lockstitch operation. 

I am a total machine junkie.  I have been fascinated by the ingenuity displayed in sewing machines from the moment I was introduced to industrial machines.  Two machines that are high on my acquaition list are:  a commercial buttonholer and a coverstitch machine, with a double needle topstitch.  Maybe a long arm walking foot after those... .  But I digress.   :-X

[Saddleman]

Doyle,

I added a double needle post bed to the shop earlier this year.  It is a Pfaff 1296 with a servo and tape guide and reel.  I could not keep up with my work without it.  It greatly reduced my sewing time, and made doing quality work easier.  It is not a split needle bar, but I have not run into anything where I need that function.

I figure Uncle Sam is paying for 30%+ of the cost of the machine, simply because it's money I don't have to pay taxes on. 

I would make the purchase again and again.

Loren

[bobbin]

"Acquisition"  (I actually can spell reasonably well). 

Loren, I like the way you think.  There is nothing worse than working in a shop where the machinery is barely maintained and the "powers that be" are not the least bit interested in making the operation run more smoothly. 

(ask me how I know) 

[seamsperfect]

Doyle,

I added a tape guide and reel. 
Loren

Loren,
Could you let me know where you bought this setup.  I have a makeshift one that I made but would like something that is made for tape........
Kevin

[baileyuph]

This information is NOT good stuff; ...it is Great stuff!  

If you want to know about something, ask a person who has been there, my motto.  The information is appreciated very much.

Loren:  Please tell me what you are using the post machine to sew, I am curious as to the flexibility the post version yields.  Also, maybe paramount to this good stuff, is there a link to the setup you purchased?  This idea would become a dedicated station, therefore the tape reel would be almost essential.  I would like to see a picture of the setup, so google will be exploited.

I can't remember your specialty.  I ask because those requirements may lap over into functionalities that I do.  I hear you on the ability to write off business expenses.  I just wish it translated into a tax reduction instead of a deduction, but part of something is better than all of nothing.   ;)  

There are several options that make sense, like Bobbin and Kevin intimated, checking things out could be beneficial.

I will try the Juki link, google will be the start.

Many thanks,

Doyle

[Saddleman]

I use the machine for top stitching on motorcycle seat covers.  My 17 year old son has used it for seats in his Mustang.  I even made a cover for a phantom mare which was large (3 hides in the project).  The post makes it easier on contoured areas and tight areas too.  Picture a headrest or like a motorcycle seat backrest.

I went with the Pfaff because I already had a Pfaff 1245 and the machines have a lot in common.  So moving from one to the other is natural. 

Video of the Pfaff 1296 in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2JB7XrfCEU

Mine does not have the Pneumatics or auto functions.  On mine the seam guide is built into the pressure foot.  Tape guide is like the machine in the video and is Pfaff hardware.

Another video

http://www.pfaff-industrial.com/pfaff/downloads/videos/pfaffvideo.1296/file/at_download

Brochure download here.
http://www.pfaff-industrial.com/pfaff/en/service/downloads/downloadbroschure/pfaffdocument?doctype=prospect&classid=1296&classidsearch=&is_submitted=1&submitselect=Show+Results&viewdetails=on#ergebnis