Can't find workers for the life of me

[JPM Coachworks]

Hi All,

First time posting up.  Mostly been lurking around and checking out everyone else's work.  Just a quick intro, I run a shop with a friend of mine doing custom interiors and products for newer model cars (mostly sports cars).

We're located west of Atlanta but most of our business is national or international so I run the business out of a private workshop I have.


Now, on to the original reason I'm posting....We've been looking for an employee now for several years.  A few have come and gone but it seems that the upholstery talent pool is pretty much dried up.  We've tried the basic steps, posting on craigslists, calling up the few schools that teach the trade, and just putting the word out on the street. 

However, craigslist sends us everybody that's desperate for a job.  They don't even bother reading the requirements most times and I think I've had one that actually had some sewing skill.

The schools don't bother calling back if you ask about internships. Their job boards are free but most of the people that go into upholstery programs usually are local to the school and don't want to relocate (plus it's hard to get someone to relocate for part time work.

Regular job boards like monster and yahoo jobs charge an arm and a leg to even look at the resumes or post a job.

The worst part is, when you finally find someone, they're unreliable, lazy, or can't sew half as well as they say they can.  It's like finding a good carpenter. Everyone thinks they can swing a hammer so that makes everyone a carpenter all of a sudden.

What's everybody else doing to find talent?  Anybody looking for a job? :-)

[mike802]

Hi JPM:  Welcome aboard, this is a well discussed topic here, many of us share the same difficulties finding and keeping qualified help.  I have been in this business for 26 years now and have the same issues as you do.  Had a few employee's come and go, no one was as skilled as they said they were, and those were the good ones. :D  It's not just finding employees for the business that hard, it is also hard finding good trade people to just come and do some work on your house.  I have had several carpenters give me estimates on having some work done to never show up.  I don't get it, the economy is bad, people are hurting for work, but try to get someone to do anything?  Are they over taxed and under paid,  or is it just to easy to collect unemployment?   

[stitcher_guy]

I'm going to sit my wife down and have her read all of our discussions about this. She thinks I suck as a boss is why I don't have anyone working for me. Claims that I can't communicate and I'm too demanding and picky and "no one will ever do it the way you want." Well, ya know, my name on it, my shop, my way or so long.

We have no employee pool here in Central Illinois. The one guy I had a few years ago who supposedly went to Wyo-Tech only lasted a couple months. He was horrible. But I don't blame Wyo-Tech, based on what I hear. I think he spent more time playing than studying and practising. The guy I let go in December claimed to have worked in the upholstery shop at the airport helping with the million dollar jet refurbishings. So why couldn't he even put in the correct screw in the seat adjuster on a 56 Chevy? The handle fell off AT a car show.

My workforce is an 8yo daughter and a 6yo son. My dau spent a day last week in my shop (she usually blows it off because the shop is dirty) and pulled the staples and ripped the seams on a Honda motorcycle seat for me. She did a lot better than the ones I've had in the past. My wife and I have been talking about giving her some duties after school to see if she could stick with it. My son is all geared up to be the trash emptier this school year to give ma break. I'm thinking this is about my only route at this point to get what I need in employees.

[Mojo]

I'm going to sit my wife down and have her read all of our discussions about this. She thinks I suck as a boss is why I don't have anyone working for me. Claims that I can't communicate and I'm too demanding and picky and "no one will ever do it the way you want."

Russ, I have to agree with your wife. What she thinks is the exact reason why I didn't become your apprentice. When you told me I couldn't have 3 - 2 hour coffee breaks a day and wanted me to work 6 hours a day I said screw it. I knew then you were a slave driver. :)

All kidding aside, the work ethic in our society has drastically changed and I do not see it getting any better anytime soon. It all starts at a tender young age. The new age parents raise their kids to be lazy. They buy them whatever they want and let them sit in front of a TV and play video games all day and night.

When these kids are having the world handed to them, they become adults and expect the same thing.

It is sad to witness.

Chris

P.S. Russ: You need to listen to your wife and quit being a hard ass..........LOL.....Our wives are always right. Just ask them. :)

[JPM Coachworks]

Thanks for the feedback guys.  I've had two decent employees over the years.  One had her own shop at one point before and was divorced and raising two kids when she worked for me.  She was definitely talented and I could trust her to do most any project correctly.  However, she would always come in late, ask for days off constantly, and tell me about appointments she needed to keep the day of.  The last straw was when she arrived two hours late, got on the cell phone and started telling her friend she had to go out of town the next day (to my surprise of course).

The other one was actually a girl that graduated from costume design at Emory.  Probably the best employee I ever had.  She was super precise, intelligent, and always on time.  Unfortunately, she was trying to start her custom outfit business at the same time. When I moved shop, it became too far for her to drive and had to lose her to distance.

In between those two were just people who said they could sew.  When it came down to it, the only thing I trusted them doing was sweeping and even that was done poorly.

I've read tons of similar responses and threads from everybody here. It seems like we're all in the same boat.  Maybe we should all just pack up and move next door to each other :D


On a more serious note, I've been looking at resumes from Wyotech and, as mentioned before, have been trying to contact other schools.  Does anybody know of a program or school worth a darn to recruit from?  I know a lot of them focus on body work and just touch on upholstery.

[Mike8560]

My workforce is an 8yo daughter and a 6yo son. I'm thinking this is about my only route at this point to get what I need in employees.

\
i tried that with my sonbut my X squashed that with  " What do you want to do sew canvas like your father?" after tyhat she ruined him and he ended up like herno job collecting unemployment crap jobs at convience stores he couldnt keep.
oh well sorry to get off track but i got on a rant :-X

[stitcher_guy]

My button has been pushed:

unfortunately, noname, your attitude has just created a Catch 22 for a shop like me.

A) You're God's gift to upholstery.....bullcrap. You THINK you are. You have not shown me anything. You have not proven your worth to me. And you have done nothing to instill any confidence in me as an employer. So, for the next 6 months, I'm taking a risk with my shop's budget to hire you on and see if you know what you are doing. AND if we can get along, or if you are such an arrogant ass that you refuse to do it my way and produce product the way I expect and demand as the owner of the shop (whose name is associated with every piece that goes out of here). So until then, you will get nowhere near $15/hr. I want to get someone up to that much. I'd love to pay $20/hr. But until your work is bringing it into my shop, it sure as hell can't be paid back out. And after 9 employees over the years, not a single one has managed to do that for PRO Stitch.

B) If you work just to what you're paid and then let the ball drop, do NOT even darken my doorstep acting like you're interested in a career as an upholsterer. If you have any passion for it, any interest in pursuing working in my shop more than just pushing a broom and wiping out my toilet, you WILL put your all into it. I do it. yes, it's my shop, so I live and breath it. The least I ask is that you strive to see the shop succeed, and sometimes that means not getting every single last cent that you're golden ass is worth.

C) If you would get that chip off your shoulder and look down the road just a LITTLE bit, you might see the potential. When I started in automotive restoration, I told my then-boss that I was willing to take a 50% hit in pay (I was a magazine editor and good at what I did, but my passion is cars). After two years with him, I was still making less than $10/hr. But, it opened the door to PRO Stitch, which in September is celebrating 10 years in business. During that time, I had one employee that was GIVEN his own shop under the PRO Sitch banner to run. He was given full manager authority, and could have made it an outstanding presence on the east side of our state. Instead, he babysat his kid on shop time, set the place on fire, and just worked up to what his wife thought he should for what he was making. I closed the shop, kicked him to the street and brought everything back to my shop. To this day I still don't speak to my brother-in-law very  much. The other guy who showed potential (I trained him from the word go to do interiors) was just on the cusp of getting HIS own shop. I was looking at the other side of the state to set him up to do his thing under the PRO Stitch banner. Instead, HE decided he could earn a couple bucks more an hour at the local stereo shop. It lasted about 5 months.

So go ahead and fill out that app at the Pancake House. I'm done with people who think they are OWED $15 an hour without showing me a damned thing.  That Union electrician sits idle so much of the time because he lives in the 1950s when Jimmy Hoffa was running things. He better enjoy his time off, because as a shop owner, I sure can't afford a Union electrician to install my lights.

America is the greatest country in the world, because I'm free to make my own choices about who I hire, how I run my business, and who I laugh at for their lazy-ass attitudes. And Obama or anyone like him isn't strong enough to change that in my lifetime. So take your best shot.

[JPM Coachworks]

I'm with stitcher on this one.  There are plenty of talented people that just don't want to deal with owning their own shop.  It's not as simple as "i'm going to set up in my garage and make twice as much."  There are still people that want to work their way up.  From what I know, popular consensus is still that you don't start on top unless you're digging ditches.

$10 an hour might not be much to the average Joe that doesn't mind working the pancake house.  When I started, I left a $60k a year job to work as a part time helper at a body shop for $5 an hour while I got my business going in their closet.  I mean, it was literally the storage closet of the body shop.  Size was 10'x5'.  I was just happy to be around cars the whole day instead of stuck in an office.

I'm pretty certain most of the guys or girls that study upholstery don't graduate whatever trade school thinking that they're set to start their own business.  They know they have to prove themselves and get a taste of what's really out there first.

BTW, you think an upholstery helper is low pay?  You should try being a chef. $40k for school and you pray to god you make $10 an hour.  If you're in a renown restaurant, you sometimes don't get paid at all.  You're just happy to be there doing your time and hope that one day you'll be the top chef.

To sum it all up, it's all about love for the job.  Those in it for only money will never succeed because you can never truly be good at what you have no passion for. 

[stitcher_guy]

I see a lot of your points. Especially that we're all idiots for having our own shops.  :D :D I figured up once, and the hours I put into the shop (sewing, but also customer schmoozing, presence at car shows, business cards everywhere, the whole thing) I might earn about $2.50/hr.

Speaking of that, I just came in from the shop trying to finish up a bike seat set. While sewing I was wondering: has anyone ever offered or worked for salary in a shop? We're always talking about hourly rates, but what if the boss said you get $400/wk, and this week here's the list that HAS to be done. Work fast, get some time off. Work slow and you're there late catching up. That puts it on the employee. When I was in an office, it was salaried, and they always got the better of me because I would put as much time as necessary to get the job done.

Anything having to do with prisons just gets under my skin. Work gangs and gruel is more how I'd run one. Internet, GED programs, color TV and three squares a day makes ME want to go hold up a QwikEMart. As I was mowing, raking and cutting weeds the other weekend, all while thinking how I really REALLY needed to be in the shop working, I contemplated calling the warden of our medium security prison here and ask for three or four inmates to clean up my yard. Why not? I"m paying for them to be in there. I might as well get a return on my investment.

Unfortunately, though, our workforce IS getting lazier by the generation/year'month and week. I hired a guy advertising as handyman to clean up my yard. I also told him I needed painting done, antennae dropped, other stuff I can do but don't have time because of the the shop. He was gunho for two days, and now, I haven't seen him in three days. The rake is still leaned up by a tree in the field with grass laying everywhere. What part of Work Ethic is so damned hard to understand?

[baileyuph]

What someone is worth is not a simple issue. 

Is a union worker worth $45 and hour?  Is an auto assembly union worker worth about the same?  What does a similar worker, equal skills that is, make in China?  From information, it could be less than a $1 an hour, don't know but is far less?  Is that because of their worth?

Therefore, what drives worth?  Maybe it isn't driven by small business owners.  Can anyone go in busiiness and pay more for labor than any of their competitors and compete?  A US business owner cannot pay more for labor to build an item than a China labor makes and stay in business.

Isn't the short summary merely that things are changing in the world and we all are not likely going to go forward, living under past conditions?  Can't predict but, for now, it appears we have had our day in the sun and what happens next depends on many factors, not necessarily what we think we are worth, but instead on what this changing market has to say?

Doyle

[JuneC]

I have a part-time worker - a guy I knew back when we both had corporate jobs.  Because he's older (over 60) he has an old-fashioned work ethic, is trustworthy (he has a key to the shop), reliable, and appreciates having a source of extra income.  I pay him very well - $25 an hour because anything less than that, I feel, would be disrespect.  On some jobs he makes more than I do.  It's a sacrifice I make to get the customer's job done on time.  On simple, low-budget jobs I work by myself because I can't afford to have him work on those.  On the nasty, heavy, large jobs, he's indispensible.  Some of them I'd have to no-bid simply because I physically couldn't do them by myself. 

He has no skills, but is learning.  I don't pay him to mess around on the sewing machines, but he can sew small stuff for himself using scraps anytime he likes.  It's stuff that would go in the garbage otherwise so I don't care.  We have a great working relationship and when we do a good job, if it just happens to turn out to be a high-margin job because things went well, he gets a cash bonus. 

So... my suggestion is to look for an older worker.  They know quite well their job options are seriously limited.  Age discrimination is alive and well.  They appreciate work much more than the under-30 gang (though, I'm sure there are exceptions).  And pay them well enough to promote "buy in" to customer satisfaction and high margins. 

June

[Mojo]

Holy Smokes.................... $ 25 per hour..........June are you hiring ? Heck I will even do your grocery shopping and laundry. :) It is more then I currently make .........:)

All kidding aside, you are very right. Older workers have more of that good work ethic instilled in them and the great part is that there are plenty out there right now trying to find jobs to supplement their retirement.

I have no need for a worker but if I did you can bet I would be looking for a retired person - male or female. They are dependable, work hard and take orders pretty well and for the most part can be trusted.

Good thinking on your part June.

Now about that job. When can I start ??? .......:)

Chris

[sofadoc]

I once read a story about an NFL coach who told his superstar #1 draft choice: "Until you break the huddle and gain ONE YARD in the NFL, you're NOTHING to me!"
That applies to hiring as well. If I were going to hire Mike, or Gene, or "noname" (or anyone with skins on the wall), I would expect to have to pay top dollar for their services.
But, if John Doe walks in off the street, he's going to have to "Break the huddle and gain one yard" before I'm going to compensate him adequately.
Like I've said before, why would a good upholsterer want to work for me when they can make twice as much in half the time working out of their garage at home?
I recently had someone with "skins on the wall" ask me for a job. I won't hire him, because I fear that he'll work for me just long enough to steal my customers, and then go into business for himself.
It's back to that catch-22 thing. As employers, we ALL want champagne taste at beer prices.
Some of you criticize the philisophy of "If I'm only getting paid $10hr, I'm only going to give $10 worth of effort". BUT be honest, if the shoe were on the other foot???

[sofadoc]

Also I went to pizza hut tonight with the fam and the waitress, abound 20,  was working her butt off and smiling the whole time. She is a Hard Working American.

I just got back from a Caribbean cruise. Aboard the cruise ship, I saw a young girl from Croatia cleaning tables. She was around 20, smiling and working her butt off. She told me that sends most of her pay home to a family that she may not see again for years.
The difference between the American girl at Pizza Hut and the Croatian girl aboard the ship? If they are both still doing the same job 20 years from now, the Croatian girl will still be smiling.
I saw waitstaff workers from countries such as Indonesia, Czech Republic, Romania. etc. Not one single American. They told me that the few Americans who even apply, usually don't make it beyond the first 7 days. Even though they sign an 8 month contract. The American workers get off at the first port.
If you can't even get an American to clean a table for a modest wage, how are you gonna get one to do quality upholstery work?

[stitcher_guy]

sofadoc -- "Some of you criticize the philisophy of "If I'm only getting paid $10hr, I'm only going to give $10 worth of effort". BUT be honest, if the shoe were on the other foot???"

That's exactly what I did to get in the auto business. This is 12years ago-pricing, but I was making about $16/hr (salary, so hard to say) sitting in an office, in a tie, clicking, pasting and writing for the magazine I edited (plus marketing work for the association).  I "graduated" to $8/hr, laying on the floor under the front of a 1953 MG TD tearing it apart. Grease on the back of my head, dirty hands and smelling of sweat when I was done.

I'm not normally a masochist and I don't enjoy berating myself. But when I interviewed with my boss, I walked through the shop and seeing four XKE-type jags with their bonnets perched up in a row, I knew I was a car guy. In the back of my head, along with thinking "this is gonna be fun," I was also thinking "I could own this place one day."

Within the two years of working there, the owner, another employee and I all seriously discussed joining forces in ownership and advancing the shop. However, the original owner just didn't have the good business sense to feel comfortable working with him. The chance at the upholstery shop (he was a "silent partner" for about two weeks, when my accountant said to buy him out because PRO Stitch was my idea through and through) was something to jump at and then things started to move forward for me. At the time I split off from the restoration shop, I had moved up to possibly $10.25/hr, and I was one of his long-time employees at that time. In addition to my work and my responsibilities building the cars, I also made an effort to put myself out there to help other workers DO IT RIGHT. That's just part of a team approach. I didn't earn more to do it, I just did it because when the cars rolled out, every one of them needed to be right.

Maybe I'm not practical in my thinking, but I feel that if I started out like that, then others can to. I'm not going to destroy my shop and my budget coddling to an employee that may or may not advance PRO Stitch. Pay your dues, prove to me that you can be an asset, and then you get rewarded. I don't owe anyone anything (except my dad and father in law for the loans to buy out the other boss).