HELP.....now it's not just a spot!!

[the Re-Covery]

The saga continues......

This just in from a former satified customer.  The vinyl:  "visions" by Enduratec

Hi Stacey,
I'm puzzled. Usually I'm a careful kind of a person- but- somehow I put another mark- like a scratch into the vinyl that appears brown.I can't get it off as a spot. So, I guess I need to protect the chairs against life in general. IS this fabric considered to be 'fussy'?  Is it not  good with normal wear or could there be a flaw in this batch?
I hate to think of not being able to enjoy the chairs for everyday meals etc. because they can be damaged so easily.  I thought the material would wear really well. Would your supplier be aware of any problems with this material? I'm going to have the repair guy fix the two spots and have put plastic covers on- but it seems such a shame to look at covers instead of the chairs.
Let me know if it's me or the fabric..
Thanks,
Nancy

What am I to think about all of this?  Do you think after all the nickle and diming me, that this customer is looking for some kind of a refund?  I'll tell ya......she put me thru the wringer on this job. (but I felt so gratefull, that she waited months for me to heal up from my broken arm so I was very generous with her.)

Stacey
ps......all there was under the vinyl was cotton and dacron

[cottagethreads]

Oooohhh, I feel your pain on this one.  Sounds like a sticky situation.  Could be the vinyl, could be the customer, and then there's you--needing to  do something or risk an unhappy customer.  When you say the saga continues, did something happen before this?

Have you seen the chairs yet? 

I'd call the fabric rep for info on this vinyl.   I do carry a line that is more stretchy, flimsy, and tears easily while stapling--I won't ever use it again.  Was this kind rated for marine/automotive? If not, it really may be that this vinyl  is "fussy", and not the customer.  Let's hope for that.  But in case it is a high maintenance situation......

Just letting her know you took the time/interest/effort will help with managing her--I've had customers who simply need more attention.  I'm learning to RUN from them BEFORE I do any work--"I'm really booked right now, it's about a four month wait" usually works.  Also a higher labor quote will either turn them away, or at least ensure me of a proper "pain in the butt" fee.  My husband is helping me learn all this because he has better intuition about these customers--I'm too trusting in the customer and also my ability to please.  He has more experience and knows some customers are simply never worth it, they're never satisfied, and want a refund/re-do at no charge. She could be this kind of customer, from what you say.  ANd yes, she could be looking for a refund, or for you to do them over again.  You may have to,  then somehow close the door to future business.  It protects you to do them over, even though the idea is SO unpleasant.  These are "Kid-Glove"  customers, with no easy solution.

I'd also think about is managing customer expectations.  I'm learning to do this before the work.  Does she have kids? Pets? Is there anything that really protects against these furniture foes?  Not really in my opinion (two boys, 150 pound mastiff, and three cats challenge our furniture.)  All of the above can easily scratch vinyl and leather. 

Good luck and let us know what happens! 

[Darren Henry]

What am I to think about all of this?

Is this the one with the ink stain?I'm sorry it's late and I'm too tired to flip back.I tsounds like she doesn't expect anything from you other than a venue to whine.Check your scrap bin for a piece of her material and abuse it. If it fails call your rep ,  it withstands reasonble whacking and scuffing show her the post trauma swatch and ask her what is going on in her house.

[stitcher_guy]

I've used Visions in a couple hot rods and have found it to be pretty sturdy and easy to work with. Not heard anything from the customers about damage during use, either. Makes me wonder what was in a pocket and drug across the vinyl when someone sat down? Even the sturdiest Naugahyde will eventually get damaged.

If this is the ink lady, then you have a customer with unreasonable expectations. Sounds like there are some deep-seated feelings that they didn't get what they thought they should have for their money (even though you know you bent over backwards to give them a deal). So now she's got a grudge against the chairs.

I had a woman bring in four kitchen chairs wanting them covered. I did them cheap, but it came out about $40 more than I'd guesstimated (remember, I don't guarantee estimates. We're strictly by the hour). When you figure it, that's only $10 a chair more. It's NOTHING. You'd have thought I had sent her into a financial spiral. She was shocked on the phone, and then practically threw the check at me when she came in. But she did take the c hairs, and I haven't heard any complaints.

[the Re-Covery]

This is indeed the ink spot lady.

First of all she came across the Canadian boarder to have me do them for her and as I mentioned before, she waited nearly a year to have me do them.  When I asked her....."arn't there upholsterers up there"?  Her reply was that she knew I was the person for the job (maybe like a greenhorn sucker!!)

She insisted that I incorporate some the the original material so it would match the table (a 50's set in plaid). Which was not a vinyl, but a plastic.  I agreed to make buttons of it.  I then had to soak the plastic in Oyx-Clean and scrub (did I get paid for this??)  Then she wanted me to do a boxed cusion seat for the same price of a wrap over.  She got wrap over.  Then it was the welt.....then the placement of the buttons......then the size of the chrome dec nails.....You get the idea.  She even had me change the placement of the buttons once I had already installed them.

Reasons for my patience/generosity?  I thought they were all good and valid, but it boils down to my own lack of confidence/insecurity to do this work.  I was just a doormat waiting for someone to wipe their feet on me.  I didn't charge her enough for labor.  I gave her a discount on materials.  I let her talk me into things I really didn't want to do.  She appeared to be one happy satisfied customer.  LESSON LEARNED

Now to reply to this lady's email....... ???

Stacey

[cottagethreads]

Eeeeeek!   I can painfully identify will everything you've said.  You've got one of THOSE kinds of customers.  The ones with major problems!!!  And they latch (leech) onto kind, sweet, confidence lacking, people pleasers--it's a match made in hell!  But let me just say the photos of your work tells me you totally know what you're doing, and you should be proud and confident! 

We are fairly new to the trade.  In the very beginning,  I was doing all the upholstery and got suckered into a situation (with similar warning signs as yours). I still regret it all to this day.  But it taught me to avoid these kinds of customers which is a survival skill, both business wise and emotionally! I used to believe I could do a good job with anyone.  WRONG.  People can be really messed up, horrible listeners, pathological spend thifts etc. 

Deal with her as best as possible without being taken advantage of and then..... RUN--don't walk, away from this customer.   Your labor rates have increased, you're really booked and aren't taking on new clients, blah blah blah, whatever it takes.  She'll get the message.   

I had referred a painter to this client, but he refused to work for her.  I ran into him recently, asking why he declined.  He said he knew she was going to have unreasonable expectations as well as labor quote issues.  He'd previously learned a lesson similar to ours, the hard way. Afterward, it gave him a sixth sense about potential high maintenance customers. 

Again, good luck!  Mary

[stitcher_guy]

I had a customer in a couple weeks ago. I did a VW for them a couple years ago (the orange and purple one I've posted before). They're nice people, and SHE is very nice to work with. HE on the other hand is a whiner and worry wart, and I've learned to be careful around him.

He got a kick out of how fast I can draw out a seat diagram to jot down notes. Hmmmm, maybe I've had practice?  ;D Having that, I was standing with them and wrote down the fabric numbers, with arrows to all the parts of the seat that will be covered in what material. And I wrote down the carpet color and type, with them adding input and seeing what I was doing. THEN, they filled out the ever-present check-in form that they SIGN and agree to.

And wouldn't you know it??? A week later, he called up whining about what carpet had he chosen? What do I recommend? Should he change his mind? Would his choice really look that good? I was on the phone just shaking my head and wanting to DIE. Ended up that he did change his mind on the carpet. Luckily I hadn't ordered yet, so all was fine.

He's one of the docile ones, though. He does whine and get annoying during the build process. But, when it gets down to decision time or having to move forward, he at least lets me take the lead and do what needs to be done. And when it's all over, he is as pleased as punch. His wife just goes with the flow and has trust in the shop that it will look great when it's done (It's HER volksy that is her baby that has won quite a few awards at the shows, so she's happy).

Regardless of who it is bringing in work, they sign a Check-in form. I've posted the language on here before. It states in a nutshell that they understand the price is on labor/material basis, payment is due in full when picked up, and that they ACCEPT that project as correct and complete when they take it out of the shop. If there's a problem, they should leave it and have it redone before taking it with them. THat is an out for your shop when you get someone like the INK LADY. You can fall back on their signed form, and remind them that they took it from the shop which means they accpeted it and approved of it when it was done.

Unfortunately, because of the nutcases out there, you have to do a lot of CYA in this business (or any service business, really). A promise and a handshake don't mean squat anymore, so you hve to get it in writing, get money down, make sure the check clears, etc. Basically, don't trust your fellow man . They have to earn that.

[the Re-Covery]

I'm sorry to hear that you keep having troubles with your chairs.

As always, I checked for accurate yardage and any flaws when I recieved the material for your chairs.  There were no defects.  "Visions" by Enduratex is not a "fussy" vinyl and is in fact used mostly in auto applications.  It has a high "rub rate" and is coated for extra durablility.  You purchased a quality material to do your chairs in.

Do you have pets in the home?  Can you send me pictures of the damage?

Before you have your vinyl repair person fix the problems and make covers for your chairs, let me suggest some other means of cleaning the spots or scratches.

Try:WD 40, Mineral Spirits, Rubbing Alcohol, Goo-Gone, Hairspray, Lighter fluid.  Followed by a mild vinyl cleaner.

Let me know how it goes........

Stacey

This is the draft email to the customer............good enough?

----- Original Message ----
From: Patrick Nancy Gallagher <the_gallaghers@yahoo.com>
To: Stacey Gnyp <staceygnyp@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2007 3:51:00 PM

[the Re-Covery]

Russell.........

do you have an example of your "check in form" that you could share on here? 
I see why you have such a form for customers. 

Stacey

[cottagethreads]

Sounds great.  It's taking action without becoming overly accomodating.  You didn't leave any room for being a pushover.  And, the fabric research resulted in good news for you--sounds like you've covered your own  toosh.

Stitcher Guy's signed form is neccessary, and I think we'll start implenting that.  Thanks Stitcher Guy.

[stitcher_guy]

On the letter, if you haven't already sent it, you might mention to them to try those cleaners in a hidden spot FIRST, to make sure it doesn't soften the vinyl. Or try them on a scrap piece so you know for sure that it doesn't cause damage and they can't come back at you for that. They sound like the type of customer that will do absolutely no thinking for themselves, because that might actually solve the problem and they no longer can complain.

Down at the bottom, is the wording I have at the bottom of my check-in form. The actual form is 8.5" x 5.5" (half sheet of paper turned to landscape). That way I can get two of them per sheet when I'm copying, and it fits the small size clipboards. I have the backside set up to log work hours, although I rarely use it. I end up putting a separate piece of paper in the clipboard for the job.

A quick aside: You notice I"ve mentioned clipboards. My old boss at the restoration shop did this for awhile. It flopped for him because he was lousy at managing. I love it. I have about 50 clipboards, and a wall with rows of nails. When a customer signs in, I put their sheet on a clipboard. Then, any drawings, specific invoices, notes, pictures, work logs, material samples, all of it, is put on this clipboard and saved. When I go to a particular job, I can pull that clipboard and get an instant refresher about what Im' doing. It works well when you have one or two other trimmers working (that you trust and are competent). They can pull a board and know what to do on a project without having to be lead by the hand to the next task. I keep them all grouped together on a board rather than staying with the project so as not to lose them.

The top of the check-in form is the Name, address, phone, e-mail, stuff to be filled out by the customer. I also have a "project" line that I usually fill in once they're done. Also, there is a little box with a CSM next to it. No one ever asks about it, but that is checked for Customer Supplied Material so I know to increase the shop labor rate.

You'll notice in the wording that I don't give the shop labor rate. I used to. But when we'd change the rate, I was left with hundreds of useless copies. Stating "posted shop labor rate" instead of the number lets me use these for a much longer time. NOW, to accomodate the customer and not be accused of cheating them, I have a sign posted right on the front of my counter, the first thing you see as you walk in, that "all projects are charged according to labor rate + material." AND, "The shop labor rate is $XX per  hour." Right under that is an equally big sign stating that all project costs must be paid before a project is allowed to leave. And also, "No exceptions. Please don't ask."

The last part of the wording on the form is about collections. It was supplied by my collection agency and put in verbatim to make sure I didn't screw it up. I don't have to do it often, but this is a CYA move in case you do have to turn someone into collections to get your money. I've had payment stopped on checks requiring it, and just recently I was sucker and let a guy take his boat for a famly outing, and they never came back to pay. That's when the sign went up about payment due.

With this wording (and their signature) you not only get the amount owed to you, but the customer also has to  pay the additional fees for the collection agency, even court costs if it goes that far. Otherwise, if you just got the base amount back, the collection agency will take their fee out of that (usually a third) leaving you with less than you are owed.

The last comment about the check-in form, maybe someone with a legal background can give input: I don't have mine copied with a carbon. What they sign stays with me at the shop on the clipboard. So far it's not caused a problem with collections. But, I've also heard that a contract has to be in possession of both parties to be binding. I just make sure I have their signature. SUPPOSEDLY, they've read it and agree to it, although most people don't even glance at it. Hey, that's not my problem. I have their signature and they were given the rules.

Here's the wording I use. Hope it is helpful for someone. Feel free to drop me a check (or money order) for $250,000 for it's use.  ;D ;D ;D Ahhhh, wouldn't that be nice.

=============

"The undersigned authorizes PRO Stitch Auto Interiors and Upholstery, Inc. to perform repairs/restoration/alterations on the above stated project. Work to be completed at the posted hourly shop labor rate, plus material and applicable costs. According to policy, estimates, when given, are only an approximation of the possible amount of labor and materials needed to complete a customer's requested project/work. Customer agrees to pay all applicable labor hours, materials costs and fees. 100% of material fees, or a scheduling deposit fee, are due upon scheduling. No materials will be ordered until 100% payment is received. All labor fees and other charges are due upon completion of work. No project will be released to the customer without 100% payment. The customer accepts all work as complete and satisfactory upon payment and removal from the business. In the event an account is past due, it may be turned over to a collection agency and/or attorney, then the customer agrees to be responsible for all reasonable fees necessary for the collection of the delinquent account including, but not limited to, collection agency fees of 50% of the balance due and costs and reasonable attorney's fees of 33% of the balance due."

[the Re-Covery]

This just in from the "ink spot lady":


Thanks for the info and suggestions. I tried all of the safe solutions but the ink stain and the other one- stayed put. The marks are on the chair backs so the dogs are innocent of this crime-lol!
I did have the repair guy out and he did his best to re-color the marks. He did OK on the small one but the ink mark is stlll visable- faint- but there. I probably added to it by rubbing a little too hard when trying to get it out. Can I live with it? doubtful. It breaks my heart to see it so soon after your beautiful work.
I think I'd like to have that one back re-done ( still thinking about the other one)whenever you have time to do it. It may sound extreme- but I waited so long to have them and looking at the flaws everyday is no fun.
NO hurry on the re- do. I've covered them to prevent another accident so they are safe. Oh, and the repair guy gave me a vinyl eraser that he says is really good on fresh marks. I think you can get it at Office Depot etc. It's called 'White Pearl'.
Hugs,
Nancy


I don't get the impression that she is looking for me to "redo" for nothing...........hahaha......nothing.  oh brother ....I just want to move on :'(
I'm not, in anyway, going to imply that I will redo for nothing either.  And she will have to wait as well.

thank you Mary and Russ for all your consolation.  And Russ ..Thanks for the info supplied about your check in form.

Stacey

[cottagethreads]

Oh Boy....I fear our customer has an identical twin out there!!!  In our experience, there's no winning with these types.  They'll beat you down.  Ughh!

[stitcher_guy]

Buttttt...she's so SWEET and so NICCCEEEE. Just sugary as all get out. Or is that venom dripping there?

Those are the worst kinds. Because now you'll enter into the next level of Customer Hell....laying awake at night worrying that she is going to bash you to others. No, they won't blow up at you, get the situation fixed, and be on their way. They'll needle you, and then tell all their friends that , "well, you know. We thought we'd try her out. We had heaard that she did good work. But, I don't know. I just don't know that it's what I expected" with a wink, wink and nudge nudge. Just drives ya nuts.\

That's when the self doubt will emerge. You'll have conversations with yourself trying to talk yourself into "maybe I should just go ahead and recover the pieces so she'll be happy. Because then she won't talk bad about me and she'll be happy. And I want happy customers so they refer more happy customers. And then everyone is happy, and they are all sucking me dry demanding more than I would ever think of delivering, and all sucking me dry and causing me grief and pain and depression.....but they're all happy."

You see how it sort of spirals down into a chasm of lunacy?  ;D

I agree with the others. Don't even broach the subject of redoing them for free unless she point blanks asks. Then let her know that, no, you can't redo them for free, because the material is good quality and quite durable. But, no vinyl of any caliber is impervious to ink marks.

I suggest also using the business tactic of sandwiching the negative. Thank her first for the compliment on the nice chairs, and yes, you feel they were very nice looking and an excellent decorator choice for "retro." No,  you can't recover them for free. The material was not defective. Yes, you are going to make special effort to get the recover done quickly so she can have her set all in place. In fact (only if it's true, because it will just make her even happier) you have some of the vinyl left, and it should be enough to get the cover, so it won't cost any more for material.

WINGO, a double nicey at the end.

[cottagethreads]

Beautifully described, Stitcher-Guy.  I loved reading your words, perfectly sums it all up.