How do you ppprice your labor?

[brmax]

Like to mention I received the mail today a magazine and well looked at, rolled open as being of interest. I hope they recall where they delivered it when they need a cover, and only time will tell.
anyhow
My January issue of Marine Fabricator, "with" Time Standards Manual !
How is that for todays conversations, pretty cool eh!

The concept of Standard Times is not competition to us but more "for" the trade, I wont go into my past work but this method of time-task is, was, and will continue to be the Payer. If we think its top secret stuff we should keep it hid, but then why talk at all.

I know there is other magazines from this group but cannot say if anything like this standard is used but do suspect. I'm sure the many books on upholstery I have seen to be sold have some mention in task time schedules, and accepted primarily because development is from a respected sources.

thanks for the great post
Floyd

[baileyuph]

Mr. Stephen Winters  has done a good job (full of good detail) on time estimates for furniture reupholstery.

I challenge anyone to really study what he has presented because to just read and think a lot of information here.....good!

There is so much more information embedded in his work.  He has a decent start on estimating reupholstery on newer furniture (20 years or less) because when he addresses a subject notice that he points out the variances and how they add time.  For example he mentioned cushions and addressed everything from a removable box cushion to a fixed (non removable) cushion on an arm, on an integrated attached backrest cushion(s) on a love seat and sofa.   He even addressed the non removable bottom seat cushion that is attached to a recliner on a sofa or love.  Yes, times have changed in the furnitue industry, like most or all others.  Recliners are every where in concepts where they never have been before.  Like my first example, attached pillow top cushions on arms of furniture.  These cushions are integrated before they ever see the chair/sofa/love seat frame - please understand my point is, they are equipped with zippers to facilitate filling and integrate into the arm unholstery (sewn together). 

Now, hopefully with that understanding one who has encountered reupholstering such or even making repairs, clearly understands my point.  It is not unusual to encounter an integrated set of backrest cushions accomplished with that technique.  No longer is furniture made by applying one layer at a time.  I just finished a large leather couch with everything integrated, that is it was fully sewn before anything was stapled to the frame. 

For those who think furniture technology is simpler than say auto, well........please get involved in where the furnitue technology has evolved . 

Things have changed, that is why none of us will every know it all because technology producing whatever is never constant.  Well in one understanding it is "constant", it is constantly changing.

It matters not what upholstery dimension one is engaged in----aviation, marine, auto, furniture, commercial, the technology from whence it came is constantly changing.

I have worked, literally in every dimension and don't know it all yet!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy and get those timing estimates as good as can.  Just remember there is no statistical probability of accuracy attached to any time charts you read.  For the less technical what is being said, there are variances to any value from any time schedule you  pick up and read.  They are literally estimates and there is no statistical sigma qualifier attach to say how accurate the estimates are. 

There are so many variances to all that we do, because it is still done by, at least partly by human and so on and on.

Sorry if I bored you,

BTW, we are on a subject that Bobbin (with her factory production background) fully understands.  It would delight me if she would come across and enlighten ...

Thanks for your attention,

Doyle

[brmax]

Great post Doyle, I will also agree first several members here having been in pro and factory production, and wished to hear from a bit.
Moving on, as you mentioned Stephens method of item specific, many of these are in my time standard manual might well be counted as or in an option category so better able to keep the main a Standard.
Trying best by professionals to initially structure it that way knowing not planning that way would take like 5000 dictionary type volumes.
So one could better add these options and be more accurate in the model designed.
In another arena it might be me designing these structures best but in this present field of study I recommend yourself and several others for setting up a method in upholstery time task.
Its a process and I'm mechanical so I consider it just another gear tooth.
good eve
Floyd

[kodydog]

I worked for a fellow in South Florida. He owned a large warehouse and was a workroom to the trade only. He employed 10 people. This included 5 drapery ladies, two furniture upholsterers, a secretary, 2 delivery guys and a salesman. He was strictly a businessman. He never picked up a staple gun in his life. Wouldn't know what to do with it if he did.

He started as an installer and over the years built up a pretty nice business. Working mostly for high end designers in West Palm Beach. You can imagine when he added recovering furniture to his business he didn't have a clue what to charge. So here is what he did.

With each piece of furniture came a work order. On it was the designers name, fabric swatch marked with correct side and which way was up and any changes the customer wanted. On it was a spot for start time and finish time but I always just wrote how much time it took. There was also room for any extra work done to finish the job, like spring work, frame work or replacing foam. This gave him pinpoint information as to how much time different styles of furniture take. All he had to figure was overhead which is pretty easy for anyone with a little math skills.

As for pricing by the yard, I always considered this an inaccurate way to calculate labor. I've seen pieces that only take 2 yards but took 4 or 5 hours to upholster. On a large job like a sectional you could be off by a couple hundred dollars. To me charging by the yard is for people who are too mentally lazy to figure their prices as described above.

[baileyuph]

While on the subject of labor requirements -

Are any doing reupholstering on these (mostly imports) sofa/love seats with recliners at both ends?

The backrest and often the arm rest are equipped with overstuffed attached pillow type construction.

It would be informative to hear what your hours are running up to?

A few doing upholstery have said they won't touch them because of the time factor and

lower cost for new coming out of Asia.

Doyle

[poppy79424]

This is a lot of great information for me. I really appreciate everyone's input on this subject. I wasn't sure if I would get any response at all when I joined this forum and this was my 1st post. I am very serious about my business. I love to go to work evry day. I was getting pretty apathetic with my Auto Upholstey. It made me a good living, but I have been doing it so long (48 yrs)it seems like I have done it all and seen it all. I still get a little excited when certain vintage cars come in the shop. I have always loved it when a customer flips out on the work we do to their car. Starting the furniture business was a good change for me. I feel reenergized and excited to go to work. I love restoring someones family heirloom, but also love doing 100 identical chairs and engineering a system to get them done quickly. We call it  "Gang Bang" I have 3 veteran upholsterers and 2 young guys that all seem to love their jobs.  I read "The art of being a good leader is getting someone to do what you want, and them wanting to do it" My new fabric show Room is almost ready. If I can figure how, I will post pics of it.

[kodydog]

A few doing upholstery have said they won't touch them because of the time factor and

lower cost for new coming out of Asia.

Doyle

Haven't done one in over 10 years because of the reason you stated. For me they easily take 30 to 36 hours or longer. But then I strip to the frame and pick apart all those bustles and pillow tops to use for a pattern. I put it back together just like it was. Also It'll take two strong guys to pick that heavy thing up. This is why I don't even try to compete with the cheap stuff coming out of China. I'd rather do a piece I can make money on and leave jobs like that for someone who's a little more hungry.

[poppy79424]

I couldnt get the pics to upload for some reason. I put them on facebook and here's the link to pics of my new Fabric show room. Tell me what Y'all think...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1091055450952671.1073741838.447268731998016&type=3

[SteveA]

I see how you deserve your user name -
It's a Class Act - Nice desk and bar  - I will forward my resume -


SA

[baileyuph]

Pricing your labor has been the primary focus on this subject.  But, to bring some reality into this pricing thought, how many give detailed estimates or as a starter use ball park numbers?

I have found it is .........well a somewhat screening method toward an actual sale?

Our time is a limited quantity and how we use it does come important.

How is it handled in your shop.........do you detail it off the bat and baby sit the customer through numerous samples/discussions?

Those don't pay for me.......

Doyle

[poppy79424]

I totally agree. I don't have time to sit there while some lady looks through every sample book I have. They finally pick out something and I call and it has been discontinued! Frustrates the hell out of me! I have told customers to go get their fabric at Joanns or Hobby Lobby, because I don't want to show them everything. I make much more when I supply the material. I have all my samples in a dedicated room, or Showroom. My Daughter is in charge of showing material. I pay her $10 hr plus commision on anything she sells. I charge the customer $10-yd to use their fabric.

Pricing your labor has been the primary focus on this subject.  But, to bring some reality into this pricing thought, how many give detailed estimates or as a starter use ball park numbers?

I have found it is .........well a somewhat screening method toward an actual sale?

Our time is a limited quantity and how we use it does come important.

How is it handled in your shop.........do you detail it off the bat and baby sit the customer through numerous samples/discussions?

Those don't pay for me.......

Doyle

[brmax]

So its off the cuff I take it, for you guys.
Is that what I'm gathering

Floyd

[poppy79424]

Off the cuff? What is that?

So its off the cuff I take it, for you guys.
Is that what I'm gathering

Floyd

[brmax]

I mean the pricing is said from experience in the beginning and that's it, or how is it actually done and then afterward on clients invoice.
I guess that is the more important answer, whats on the invoice.
Are certain job types standard pricing, and "mentioned off the cuff "  50 bucks, then later finalized a bit with quantity of yards, paint, misc. adding to 50.00 on the invoice.
I understood each level of money job can vary a relative amount, say 5 on 50. in a task type job and not inclined to use certain invoices.

have a good day everyone
Floyd

[bobbin]

I charge my labor by the hour.  I charge materials at a 50%MU.  Appropriate taxes on both.  I've been working in the trade for a long time now.  I know how much I want to "net".  My prices reflect the above!