Shop Table

[brmax]

Hello Everyone
  I wanted to start a Shop Table topic in attempt to bring some finer points from your varied experiences with the particular work you produce.
First the searches here can be a great source for myself and many others looking for specifics on materials and such,  I would appreciate some input on certain sizes and any benefit you have needed in these descriptions.
I have already benefited from your professional tips and enjoyed some of your laughter also, so this can be used forward too many in a search.
I don't mean to get long winded but as you might recall I have been working on some new shop tables, with again great help and good search through the postings.  Its screachin hot outside welding table structure, but I have fabricated two small sections of 6'x8'x3' with one having a machine and operator cutout, these have a 3.5" adjustable leg at each 4" caster and finally primed and painted waiting for some choices yet to work out top and lower level surface.
I did make a width change from my initial design to a slim 6' width this plan will have a 2' drop down to the far left side and hopeful to work ok as its a must for this work room giving a 3-4' wide path around when needed.
The plan for today is start welding on a finishing end section and will/has to be 6x6 and also bolts to the existing structures,  I kinda like a decent pathway and clear so this smaller part is why in planning.
To get on with the bigger reason of the post,  I had always planned another shop table and to push it against the newly built one in a future setting. 
Because of present room length and the need to keep a roughly 14x12' area with wide door clear to bring stuff in and out or just floor work area an adjacent area will be used instead with a change up in machine to table setting "just in consideration".

In all the hot air babbling the adjacent room has another 14x12' rough measure with a small walk out this is going to have the table,  the "new change mind you"  is having the 8' length parallel to machine so a 6' left of needle, this thought has a 6' table depth mind ya so that is the dilemma. Just how does the operator area 3'x3' and machine table 2'x4' get used in the proposed design 1' in front of machine and say 3' to operator side/behind sew table.
This question I wanted to run by you all in this fine group for any pros, cons, laughs n cackles by all means :)

Good Friday

[SteveA]

Welding steel together for work tables in a sewing shop or wood shop may be uncommon.  Personally I like wood structure.  It's easy to make - alter if necessary - add on to - and re-laminate when the time comes.  Maybe consider a wood table along with the steel ones.
Thanks for the post - it is important to see how others approach their work space -  my table legs are made of 2 x 4 + 4 x 4 lumber.  One top is particle board for fabric layout and cutting with storage underneath ..... and the other table is butcher block style maple boards glued together side by side for woodworking... with vises on the side and end

Regards,
SA

[Mike]

also what are you sewing with me sewing larger boat covers and tops and chriss sewing long rv awnings im sure our table needs are different then dennis  or pauls doing furniture upholstery.

[byhammerandhand]

Most of my upholstery work is done onsite, so my work-table is normally the floor where it sits.

I'll let Gene pipe in as he as a very high work table that helps avoid chronic back pain.

However, I do a lot of woodwork and wood finishing in the shop.

1. Think first of adapting a "work triangle" a la "kitchen work triangle"  viz:
The kitchen work triangle principle is used by kitchen designers and architects when designing residential kitchens:
   No leg of the triangle should be less than 4 feet (1.2 m) or more than 9 feet (2.7 m).
   The sum of all three sides of the triangle should be between 13 feet (4.0 m) and 26 feet (7.9 m).
   Cabinets or other obstacles should not intersect any leg of the triangle by more than 12 inches (30 cm).
   If possible, there should be no major traffic flow through the triangle.
   A full-height obstacle, such as a tall cabinet, should not come between any two points of the triangle.

You should adapt this philosophy to your various work tasks.  Perhaps group the following into separate "triangles" with the three areas you use for each.
- Stripping
- Cutting and sewing
- Assembly and stapling


2 Pay attention to work height
Lower for more muscle power operations, mid height for power tool operations, and higher for detail operations.  A good starging point would be low=crotch height, medium = navel height, high = chest high.  I have build some boxes from plywood ripped to roughly 1x4,   it measures 24, 30, and 36 inches on the sides.  I can rotate it to the height I want to work and put my project on it.    Another jig is a sheet of plywood ripped in half.  On each half, I have a black pipe floor flange with 1.5" pipe on the bottom and 1.25" pipe on the top (several different lengths of bottom pipe)  This gives me a giant turntable that I can rotate around with a little push.









3. In a small shop, mobilize on casters.
Move things in and out as you need them, especially infrequenly used fixtures/tools.

4. Look at Lean Manufacturing Principles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing
While things like Just-In-Time don't make a lot of sense if you have to order staples every week for a small shop, a lot of them do.   One of my favorites to think about is "muda" (non value adding work), for example moving pieces all around to make room for another operation or project.

[MinUph]

  Mike has a very good question as it depends on what your doing on the table. Doing awnings, canvas work is much different than standard furniture upholstery cutting and sewing.
  When I build the last table for the shop I kicked around putting the sewing machine in the table but ended up ditching the idea because we don't sew huge things often. So I ended up with a 70" x 12' table. I built it out of wood because that's me. 2x4 framing with joists on 16" centers. One end it tied to a ledger against the wall so there are two sets of legs. Filled the seams of the top with wood filler and gave it a coat of primer and two top coats of floor paint. It is working well. Under it I put plywood for storage of fabrics. The seamstress loves it and two people can work on it when the need arises.
  The sewing machines are in an adjoining room.

[brmax]

Thanks you all, believe it as this or Your Post will help many as countless hours are searched for great information as you share. This Im just going to respond a bit to your post to thank ya maybe a bit long winded, uhm.
Anyway like many of dogs I trained though they acted correctly here im not, Im taking a last comment for fun of it.
Keith the true to life mention (muda) you to thought that was just me, seems the story of my careers move something just a bit so as to get on another task, waiting for parts or something? that always mm ya.
Movin on

Steve  great point in the wood tables especially in some marine canvas repair shops I seen, really cool setups of business I should work one up soon. Though Steel is uncommon it musta been the racers edge that had me all along.  So some hog rings and steel are in the blood a bit I guess yet some formal training at North Coast Canvas in Janurary 2014 keeps me focused.
I need more space for sure as wood working tools stored everywhere, I think a butcher block work bench has my eye for mounting a recent button press find and some how incorporating a stainless/aluminum tubing trim area, you must have that mind reader ability thing. I think I seen the water ripple in my glass to did you drop something. haha ; )

Hey Mike  I agree the canvas yourself, June, Chris, and so many others here we work with has a need for more table area, Where Paul and Dennis have some bigger tables I seen, I think they use them mostly for cutting as a higher percentage.  I have seen many of video of experienced persons as all of you flipping yardage around the table like nothing, I am not small but how that's done baffels me at this stage.
The post of shop tables you have put up is of great help and the extra work posting to show us in the need to or want to know is appreciated, "big time" I need to make an effort to work harder on a photo site of sorts as all the pics help.

Keith  that triangle idea is pretty cool, glad you brought that up it makes one re-think efficiency at a higher level with their already good ideas.
Excellent  work box  man with your craftsmanship im sure you could set a dozer on it haha, but with the different measure of its length and width as you said it is a (smoking hot idea) for sure.
For the mention on back ache and related table ergonomics, believe me I totally understand as I have spent vacations laying flat of my back (not being able to move hardly), try seeing that and understanding its worth it.  I have 3 different years with many other years of pain back ache/nerve pretzel walking ""sucs"" (I mean it), I feel lucky though as no welded or pinned disc as some family and friends.

Paul I am really concerned with marine canvas stuff in a startup way not my norm but I am older now and its a bit easier for myself to stick to the kiss program for now.
I looked at your shop posting many a time and learning from pics there and different works everyone talks about on here its a great help thanks .

Table height searching and searching I was given and used many of time a building standards book finding it a good read it and the many post at different forum sites a cut table height seem to run high or definitely higher than a sew table and some found making all theirs a same level.  I decided at a 38" instead of present 34 this if wanted can change as that's built in my table but the combination of cut table into my particular sew table is going to be tried, I understand this is totally dependent on ones height primarily as I have heard it in building different cabinets here in my own family we run 5'11 all 4 girls n me though I did 6'when I had hair, helmet, hat as I do have a rep to protect. (hope they throw some more mustard pac downstairs with the crackers.)
Thanks for your contributions  so far everyone

[Mojo]

I patterned some of my tables off Mike's. His use of tables is nearly identical to mine. The last set of tables I built ( 8 x 16 ) are all modular because I know the day will come when I will have to move them to a new shop.

They are all made of 2x4's with storage shelves on the bottom and a melamine surface on the top.
The differences between my tables and Mikes is that he likes to have the table top much closer to his left side then I do. I also have a cutting edge inserted into one edge. This is aluminum and I can use a hot knife or razor cutter on it. Saves the table top surface from damage.

Chris

[brmax]

Chris  thanks I like the idea of modular also, a brother of mine mentioned a couple times the exact point I guess we have moved each others equipment enough that a casual mention was in order.
I remember when you were working thru the aluminum for the cutting tool idea at the time it seemed great and a good read, though I didn't have a hot knife at the time i kept the tip, a super idea now.
Having seen many post where people have used a wheel of some sort to help moving tables around shops mounted on wood and metal structures alike with some great tips on here about that exact mention, to think all I need now is a gear box from the machine to drive such a contraption ?hmm.
I remember seeing Mikes table setup and at this time I need to be totally in front of the needle might be able to move over to the right later down the road though and will try.  I cannot use my clutch pedal foot without a gas pedal but I can see some customizing.
Good days there

[brmax]

Hey Chris I got a question and you can help I'm sure. In the material bundles you work with what do you think is a realistic need in measurement to your left and really behind say the machine table, now if I had a giant room I would not ask but, in any case if you have 3 sections of rolled goods sewed together which I think you have many times, so can you give a shout with some information. Appreciate it

[Mojo]

Max:

I am not sure if I understand what your asking. But our goods are all 47 or 60 ". Rarely do we work with 60" acrylic but all of our vinyl is 60 ". When I built these new tables I screwed up and left too much gap on my left side. My next set of tables will have a 12 " off set and be more like Mike's. In other words the needle will be 12 " from the left side edge of the table.

Mike is one of the few on here who can sew with very little left side offset. I am going to guess Mike learned to sew this way back when he got started and has become a habit since. I on the other hand learned with a large left side offset and have a difficult time sitting and sewing to the right of the machine. But because of the large goods we are sewing I need to increase the offset like Mike does.

To be honest, Mike's offset is the preferred way to go if you can adapt to sewing off center. Because him and I sew alot of 47 and 60 inch goods we need as little gap as possible between our left side and the table. It can be difficult controlling the fabric with a big gap on your left side. I will be fixing mine someday as I have too much gap and get closer to Mike's offset.

Mike also runs alot of table behind him as well which is a huge benefit. So, I prefer the modular setup of the tables with the framework no more then 4 ft but next time will go the same route as Mike when it comes to offset on the left side and extra space behind me.

In regards to table height, mine are 32 " tall. I am 5'10" so 32 " works perfect for me. Mike is I believe 6'5" tall and his brother John I believe is 6'8". They need more table height in order to work comfortably while cutting. Mike can tell you how tall his tables are as I forgot.

Table height is a big concern. My first table was 28 " tall and it was a back breaker. I much prefer the 32 " height. That extra 4 inches made a huge difference in comfort. It is now perfect for my height. I use extra tall chairs that I ordered through Amazon at the machine and have the machines adjusted up on their stands.

Chris

[brmax]

Thanks Chris
  I agree with its how you start out behind a machine and no doubt it has a couple benefits with the edge close to the needle. I think Mike might be a southpaw and this helps his decision with the fact that many in the north east shops made sails so more common to see the efficiency of it, also a plus is ability to have rolled goods behind you this is super but I cannot do just yet.

  I haven't cut any wood yet for the tops but my machines are within an inch of each other from needle to there k-table left edge so Im planning a 9.5" from the needle and will consider any suggestions, though I only gave myself 2" more available room from the angle iron frame as I made the extra 2" wood top lip around all the outer edges.
The different chairs or the couple old drafting stools from the garage I move around have good effect really but even at this time at 34" height my auto lift pc desk chairs aren't or don't lift high enough so may have to bust out another franklin on a used one, also one new one from staples is thin and barely enough side room as it has arm rest to. Another old one an easily more executive chair type is to wide for the space as I set in front of needle now anyway.

I didn't mention it well but I have two tables in making, the 1st table with my main module 6' wide with the cutout for 4'wide machine table your all familiar with is at the front end, it also has a 3' square for the operator just behind.
Now this area directly behind me to the edge leaves 40" is in question for different types of fabrication of textiles n leathers what have ya.   what is useable and more importantly "needed"  to everyone?

Presently there is 4' of table to the left of the needle, I would like to build in a lift/drop extension on this far left side. Otherwise all rolled goods will have to be from the front station 14' ahead of machine and might work best anyway.
I am waiting on the rain again so I can roll the 16' bolted together sections out of the shop bay, and finish with the tac up of its 6 foot frontend section.
Sweatin bullets yesterday now rain again as every other day, not good for many crop plantings so I should feel lucky I don't crop farm.

Anyway I have another area for a machine about 14'x11' and needing to build another table and considering a short 2' front area and 6' wide area to the left of needle and just 2' behind machine at my left operator side. This initial area I had machine facing the 14'direction now ? its up in the air

[Mike]

chris I rarely use 46" brmax   the end of the taqble behind when sitting at the machine is about 66" wide this allows a 60" roll of canvas the cardboard tube are generally 63" so I put it on a pipe on the roll holder at the end of the table as you can see in this pic the side of the machine head is even with the table so the needle is what 4"away even at times Chris this annoys me and I wish I went needle even with the table. mind you all my office chair I remove the left arm if there are arms. tables are 30"


with this width I can roll out my canvas then lay my pattern on it to cut  beyond the machine the table widens so canvas sewn dosent fall on the floor and it 7 1/2'if I had my way id have 2 tables one for cutting patterns out and one 8' or more wide for sewing large canvas covers . with my table now I still have to keep it off the floor across the table,

and the other end is a mirrow of the other end

[Mojo]

Mike:

How tall are your tables ?

Chris

[Mike]

soory late 30" chris

[Mojo]

Wow........ 30 " Does it bother you or John's back ? You guys are tall.

Chris