Settee Skirt - design/engineering Issue

[baileyuph]

Doing a settee that has a skirt, long as it is just below seating height and goes to the floor (approximately 3/4 to 1 inch above).

First, description of settee:  it is small, bench style with no back side (looks the same from both sides), has fairly low scroll arms with upholstery one would envision on a small chair or couch scroll).  The seat is about 3" (tight style) that is hindged to permit storage underneath.

The skirt is a panel on each end, then two on each of the two sides - divided in the center.  Further to clarify, the skirt has a total of six panels (one on each end and two on each side)  and the typlical flap at the joins of all the panels (4 corners and both the center of both sides).

Problem is I don't particularly like the skirt design because of the height; that is the panels are so narrow relative to their height.  I have done these before and the design isn't user friendly in that the flaps are so narrow relative to height.

This is just a brain storm to get some points about redesigning the skirt, such as making the flaps about twice as wide (8 or 9 inches) or what do you think about sewing the skirt, essentially in one circular piece with relatively wide folds at the six flap locations (4 corners and side centers).  This would prevent the "see behind view of the backsides of the skirt - as being so tall, it happens.

All that to specifically as if go with the six panel skirt with individual flaps or integrate the flaps into the skirt?

The integrated skirt is not a perfect idea, as it may or may not lay flat at the corners, etc.

As stated, done them before, reviewed the two options expressed but in the end was just glad it was done.  Wink.

Forgot to mention one primary difference between the two approaches is the integrated approach can be done without a lining and stiffner (well so can the separated panel concept).  More to think about, now perhaps I know why I usually do them conventionally (non integrated). 

Had this aggravation before?  Anything "right" hit you?

Doyle

[gene]

The only way to lessen the height of the skirt is to cut off some of the legs.  :)

What you are calling 'flaps', I call kick pleats.

I think what you are calling 'integrated flaps' I call closed box pleats.

Either one would work to keep from being able to see through the pleats.

Just make the kick pleats as wide as you need to, to accomplish this. The closed box pleats are closed, so you can not see through them.

I like making the closed box pleats. I don't do it too often because it is time consuming.
I measure and list all the sections I will need, including the total length of the skirt. I first decide how deep my closed pleats are going to be. And add 1" to the total length for the seam allowance.
I make one continuous circle of skirting and make sure the seam(s) will be hidden inside the pleats. I will either fold over the fabric so I have face fabric on the inside as well as the outside of the skirt, or I will use lining for the inside of the skirt.
I then mark the welt cord at where ever I want my starting point to be, and then I sew the skirt onto the welt cord, following my notes for where to put the closed box pleats and making sure these notes match up with my marks on the welt cord.
I usually steam/iron the pleats when finished sewing.
Then I staple it onto the furniture, keeping my fingers crossed that I did it correctly. It can be a challenge to staple and keep your fingers crossed at the same time.

You didn't post a picture, so I don't know how this would look, but for something really different, you could use kick pleats in the middle of the front and back, and cover the legs with face fabric to act as a kind of kick pleat. You would see the legs covered with fabric, instead of the kick pleats at the corners.  ???

gene

[kodydog]

I can appreciate what your trying to do. Make it more pleasing to the eye. You have only so much to work with. The problem with redesigns is you can spend hours trying to figure it out. And time is money. Genes idea is a good one and wouldn't take a lot of time to do. Me personally, if the customer didn't complain, I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time trying to redesign it.

[baileyuph]

Yes, Gene's insights are right on target with this little settee.  Today, I got to look at the settee a little closer.  It turns out to be made well enough, I guess but the upholstery job sure is ..........well there is detail in something like this that was left out.  The manufacturer cut corners, probably because of the time factor Kody is pointing out.  The chair is a time requirement to mess with, it has that storage box under the cushion  (hindged like I said). 

I made some quick measurements and, unless I am wrong, it is going to take about 5 yards of material, the customer thought it could be done with 3 yards.  Overall it is about a 40" x 24" with fairly large scroll arms  for a small settee.  Legs are cabriole.

The skirt itself, being so tall, extends from - essentially the bottom of cushion to the floor is going to take a lot of material (again 6 panels) and after cranking in the wider  kick pleat corners and divider in the middle of the settee (another 6 panels).  It is deceptive being relatively a small seat how much yardage will be required.  This is a fact even given no backrest.

It looks like amateur work and I assumed it had been reupholstered along the way but the manufacturer content tag is on the bottom.  So it could be the original covering.  If so, tag indicates a small manfacturer in Illinois.  Probably made just a few and I can see why - the time required to build the frame with a storage box and the cushioned lid probably took time that wasn't collected for .

Yes, time is going to be required and time is money.  Maybe the customer will back out when I tell her how much more material is required. Wishful thinking.

Doyle

[kodydog]

Those long skirts use a lot of fabric.

The legs are cabriole? Why would they cover those with a skirt?  Makes me think it has been upholstered before and that's why the skirt is so strange looking.

[baileyuph]

Interesting how great minds think alike, Kody.  Today, I checked the measurements of the upholstery covering of the settee.  In doing so, I looked at the mfgr. fabric/stuffing content stapled on the bottom and got to thinking why would a manufacturer build the legs out of maple (appeared to be) and upholster this thing in white fabric?  Logic told me it wouldn't happen, so I too believe that it has been recovered but the dust cover and attached labels were not removed.  So, that starts explaining things.  But, the technique used in the now assumed reupholstery job might have incorporated the change (six skirt large panels and the same number of boxed pleat effects).

In my mensuration check, and with a more serious look at the skirt (which I am not impressed with), I commented to the customer that fuller and better tailored box pleats would only enhance the apparent quality of this piece, perhaps we should add about 1/2 yard more to the additional fabric order.  She seemed willing to go with that. 

I am not ordering any material for it, customers want cheap, well they go buy cheap, all I do is work with the engineering and formulation of a better upholstery plan. 

This piece is not a walk in the park, but taking the time it will only get better.

Bottom line, yup!  Reupholstered at least once before is the expectation but when I tear town, perhaps confirmation or something else might be detected.


Gene:  I too call the subject pleats "kick" and "box" pleats.  I went with the generic lingo because most of the newer upholsters/readers have their own lingo, therefore I was hoping to relate to a larger audiance.  To add from a different dimension, today something that covers a cushion in foam or leather is a "skin".  We sure didn't talk that way when I grew up.  LOL.

Back to the methods of boxed and kick pleats.  I will give both equal thought, but am leaning in the direction of the "kick" pleat, thinking it might hang a bit better.  But, I will increase the width (to gain more overlap) over what I see now.

Speaking of the skirts again, I am also considering dropping a chain style weight in the skirt to help the appearance.  It will add weight, needed to help the hang.  That is an "old school" technique" in furniture upholstery and slipcovers as well as draperies (which were treated differently).  Lot's to think about.

Always something, especially in a diversified business.

Doyle

[chrisberry12]

Sounds like you have a dressmakers skirt and they rarely come with buckram, or also known as skirt stiffner, that is all you need if you want a nice tailored skirt , just use the stiffner, the weights will not look as nice. I would leave the skirt alone, I am sure they like this look. Your profit margin drops considerably when you over think the job. As far as yardage 7 yards. Here is a formula for figuring yardage and will give you basic yardage for a given piece. Will need to add extra for repeats, dressmakers skirts and extra pillows. Measure all the way around the piece at the widest point, multiply times two and divide by 36 this will give you your yardage. So, 40+40+24+24=128 X 2=256 divided by 36 = 7.1 yards

[baileyuph]

Back to the settee;  Like I said, it was finally brought to the shop by the customer.

In further review that ensued, some further comments are provided:
     
    a.  Chrisberry I appreciate your yardage formula, if I deduct the amount that would be used on an inside and outside back, cording, etc. your yardage number would be about the same as mine.  I am sure your formula and measuring technique assumbed both an inside and outside back.  Any how, the specific measurement of individual components support close to 4 2/3 yards.  The customer has been informed and ordered the extra fabric, which is due in two to four weeks. 

     b.  The subject of chambered skirt;  After researching older upholstery training documents I believe that is clarified to mean the skirt technique most of you referenced and Gene described in detail.  That is, a one piece skirt (not literally - segments are sewen together like Gene described.  Yes, one piece with pleats at the corner.  Bobbin's description (on the limb) told me the same thing. 

      C.  Also, in these older trade school documents, the term "ruche" was provided.  This their applied use of the term:  It is a decorate pleat or gather (decorative key word) that has been incorporated in upholstery but more specifically slip covers, along the join between the outside and inside back.  They showed a delination of a ruche and it came off impressively.  Actually, it appears back in an older era, ruche was something amall added opposed to a larger pattern of pleats. 

      D.  Kody, I did pull some of the existing upholstery loose and it does look like this is a modified reupholstery job - meaning it is not the factory original.  True, this job will take time, but doesn't a lot of what we do.

     E.  From the further review, the existing skirt and kick pleats do look terrible and this opinion was shared with the customer and it turns out in thinking she agreed and do what you have to do to improve that component.  I, like Gene, said we need to shorten it, a mere 3 or 4 inches might do wonders and if it is flange or a kick pleat skirt either would offer more craftsmanship affect.  That is better tailoring and quality appearance.

I think, given a good plan and exactness, this will turn out as good taste and impressive.  The cabriole legs, well, the skirt will cover them up.  Apparently, the customer's plan of use for the item is in somewhere the softer and less provincial look is not desired (that one anyway).

The summary as it stands today, analysis of the situation.  Thanks for all your help.

Doyle