O Captain, My Captain's Chair

[jojo]

So I'm doing a captains chair, and used the old cover as a pattern. The old chair had no welt, but the customer wants welt where there are seams (which would be both sides of the long, thin center strip).
I sewed it all together, but the inside of the chair, specifically where the arm bends (where your elbow would rest if you were sitting in the chair) is really baggy.
I deconstruct again and check my pieces against the pattern pieces. They are 100% accurate.
So, is it the welt that's hanging me up here? The seam allowance is the same, but maybe the stacking of two extra layers of vinyl are making a difference?
How do you allow for welt if you are patterning?
Thanks in advance. This thing is killing me. I'll post a pic later.

[chrisberry12]

really need a picture to help but if the old fabric is vinyl, never use for a pattern!!! it is stretched out and distorted and you will never get the new to work right. You need to make your own pattern from scratch. the welt should not matter. I always use half inch seams and trim after if needed. If using vinyl you should make a bit smaller and steam to stretch the vinyl on. then no excess, no wrinkles etc..If the welt is on the outside back why sew on, very difficult to over help with no picture, everyone's definition of a captains chair is different. But most important do not use old as a pattern.

Chris

[jojo]

Thanks Chris,
I've used old pieces as a pattern before with success, but I guess I will have to make my own this time. Here is the original:



And here is the problem area on mine:



The wrinkles right at that point were a lot more severe, but I cut some excess fabric out of the curve and it got a little better but still not good enough. I was hoping to be able to salvage it, but you know how it is when you sew the same piece of vinyl too many times.

[bobbin]

I've broken out in cold sweat just looking at that, Jojo.  (which is why I so fear vinyl, lol). 

[baileyuph]

It would require getting the job in my hand, but I could fit that cover. 

There are remaining differences between copying a take off (old piece) to cut a new, but to get closer to the issue it would be more effective to get it on the bench and make my decisions then.  Part of the art is understanding stretch and padding and the seat itself.

It is doable, don't believe it has to be totally redone, maybe very small adjustment at most, maybe no adjustment.

Pretty seat, where did you get the decal? or is it a printed design or embroidery or? can't tell from my picture.

Doyle

[chrisberry12]

You can steam the back side of the vinyl for awhile and then let it cool off and it will shrink some. The extra fabric is minimal now so it could be finished with a little manipulation. Take your time and this will be a beautiful seat. Show us how it turns out.

Chris

[JuneC]

The narrow strip up the arm is just a bit too long.  For dry-fitting, it should trampoline off the seat on the inside curve.  Then when stapling with a little heat, it'll go on smoothly.  That's for future reference though.  I think like Doyle said, it can be installed. 

How short to you have the seam selvedges under that?  They'd need to be less than 1/4" - somewhere around 1/8-3/16.  When you're stapling it on, work the cover so that the inner arm doesn't quite reach the foam.  It should be around 3/4" off.  Staple that bit last with heat.  Also, did you use sew foam?  That could be giving you these wrinkles.

June

[jojo]

Thanks everyone. The logo is embroidered; the customer designed it himself!
June, I suspected that the length of that piece was the problem. I sew the seams with a 3/8" allowance, then trim them to almost nothing, which of course makes it a pain if you have to re-sew anything. No sew-foam.
Doyle, are you by any chance located in Pennsylvania?  :D

[baileyuph]

No Jo Jo, no coast or oceans around, just a big town country boy.  Grin.

The picture sure suggest there is a pretty seat coming your way. 

What vinyl did you use and I assumed you had the outside back sewed in.

What do you think the age of the foam (the seat in essence)is?

Keep your confidence, nice work.

Doyle 

[bobbin]

I've been reworking a botched slipcover for a friend and this thread has been rattling around in my head since I first read it.  Much of my present project has involved correcting pcs. cut off grain and using the bias of the pcs. to marry them to the adjoining pcs. smoothly.  There has been a lot of "easing" as the chair is curvaceous and owner wishes a snug fit.  And it's required me to shave seam allowances to less than I normally would.  Thoughts:

Bias is bias.  On grain is on grain.  So, identifying each is crucial to one's ability to work comfortably with any fabric.  Obviously, I'm more comfortable with wovens (clothing), but I already understand the concept and how working with bias and straight grain can help achieve a smooth, pucker-free fit. 

What I don't really understand about vinyls is the "stretch factor".  I know it can stretch like nobody's business, but really pulling it and forcing it to stretch to achieve the desired shape intimidates me.  I'm always nervous about putting too much tension on it and tearing it.  Worse, having it look great when it leaves my shop, but then having it "blow out" after a few months time!

Nor do I have anything more than the most elemental understanding of sew foam.  I don't really understand how you work with it, or when you should use it.  This is something I need to master.  I have the "chops" and I have the machinery, but I don't see much vinyl work and therefore tend to sidestep it whenever possible. 

[MinUph]

bobbin,
  I can comment on vinyl. Most vinyl will stretch more in one direction. Up the roll across it. I never remember so I test before I cut each roll. The stretch can work in your favor if you think it through. Say you doing a concave piece like a bike seat. I would have the stretch front to back and the pull sideways. This allows you to take ut the stretch first (fr to B) and then pull down the sides with minimal stretch.
  I have done one piece booth seats for restaurants that have curved fronts sort of like a U shape and they are big. One piece of vinyl no seams. If you were to try and lay it on there would be huge pleats in the front. No matter what you do. But with heat applied the vinyl stretches like rubber. And no pleats. When you stretch unheated vinyl there is a point of no return. In other words you can stretch it so far it will not recover itself and you end up with lines in it that look like stretch marks. Heating it solves this problem. I've used hair dryers but a heat gun does a much better job. The vinyl does get hot but you get use to it. As far as I know there is no degradation to the vinyl from the heat. Never had a complaint about it popping or blowing out.
  Also there is different vinyls for different uses.
  I never use bias on vinyl. Not that there isnt a use for it but I don't know it. Fabrics yes. But vinyl I run either up the roll or rr. Welt included.

[JuneC]

Vinyl, has all way stretch.  It's the knit or woven backing that has limited or one way stretch.  Something I learned on this forum from K-like-aren (BCKC) many years ago.  If you take the backing off (using MEK), you can make vinyl conform to ANYthing.  You don't want to mistreat it after taking the backing off though.  It's quite delicate.    I've covered things like boxes with vinyl after having removed the backing.  Wish I'd taken pics.  

For upholstery, you don't want to remove the backing.  Only if you're covering something like a dash or something without any "give".  Analyze the backing and you've got it.  I've heard of upholsterers stapling on covers with a heat gun in one hand and a bottle of ice and water in a spray container in the other.  Heat - cold - repeat....  It'll do the trick, but it also mimics mother nature's summer/winter cycles and "ages" the vinyl.  I've encountered much vinyl that was over-heated to make it fit and it's so hard and brittle it cracks during removal.  I try not to use too much heat.  FYI, marina-maintained vinyl will also be hard and brittle from drying degreaser cleansers.  

June

PS:  Never, ever, use heat on the carbon fiber vinyl.  It'll turn flat and untextured in a heartbeat.  Ask me how I know.....

[Mojo]

I've broken out in cold sweat just looking at that, Jojo.  (which is why I so fear vinyl, lol). 

I am not crazy about working with vinyl either Bobbin. I used to do vinyl and it took a while to learn how to let the vinyl work for you in regards to shapes, etc. When I looked at the shape of that chair Jojo is working on I wanted to reach for some .

I rarely ever get a vinyl job and the last one I did get was a dash from a coach. It is something that you have to work with alot to get really good at and I do not get called upon for vinyl jobs. I did get a call for one a couple months ago ( boat interior ) and I pawned the customer off on Rick. :)

So many others on here like June, Mike, Paul, Doyle, etc. work with vinyl alot and it is like anything else, the more you work with it the better you get. You learn all the traits of vinyl and like Paul said once you understand the bias and how vinyls stretch you can make cuts that will help you rather then hinder you.

Funny that while I hate vinyl jobs, I love working with sew foam and doing pleats. Strange I know but then most of you know I am not right in the head anyways. :) My skill sets are in awnings and canvas and I admit to this. I know awnings, toppers, etc. inside and out. This is why I refuse to do marine, auto or furniture. I lack the skill sets and it is not something I am interested in picking up on so I have two excellent resources in my backyard that I can pawn this type of work off on - Rick and Paul. :)

Chris