New here with a few questions

[whtwter]

Hi everyone Chris here. I am starting my first upholstered piece of furniture, a case sofa similar to the one pictured. I have been reading a lot and am finding some conflicting info so I thought I would ask the professionals!

First let me go over some of my plan...We have a lot of 6/4 maple leftovers in the shop so that is what the frame is being made of with the case portion being skinned in a marine grade ply and veneered. One of my biggest complaints on a modern sofa is they are usually hard as a rock so I am planning on 8way tied springs with the cushions being a coil boxed in foam with a down pocket top and bottom so they can be flipped.

1st question is coils, I had planned on making a 4" frame with 6" coils so the coils would be flush with the top of the frame. I have been told that is not the correct way that I should use 8" springs and add foam all the way around the edge to bring it flush. Opinions?

2nd does anyone have pics of a well built frame in this style? I have a good idea what I am going to do but I do have a tendency to overbuild things and would prefer to not have to use a crane to move it when done.

Last I am confident I tie the springs and upholster the sides and back, the cushions have me a bit scared as I have never run a sewing machine. I have a regular sewing machine as well as a industrial straight stitch and serger in the shop I lease space in. Should I give it a shot or hire someone to do the cushions?

Cheers, Chris

[MinUph]

Hi Chris and welcome,
  Good frames are built with dowelled joints and corner blocks. I have built many but have no pic for you sorry. Your 6/4 maple is good but very hard. Itvwill make a good frame but I'm sure your aware of the hardness. Driving 16 oz tack for spring up will be a bit hard.

  As for springs they should end up above the frame like you've been told. If they are tied even with the top edge of the frame the twines will be tight and you wont have a sprting feel. You would be sitting on twines. Hope that makes sense. So the 8" would work.

  As for the cushions. If this will be your first attempt at sewing you might send them t a seamstress. Cushions are not really that easy to sew for a beginner.

  Take pics and post your progress for us.

[byhammerandhand]

Many commercial pieces are put together with dowels.  But there are much better ways to join wood.  Of course, it depends upon the geometry of the joint and how the grain is oriented into it.   One of the first things I read about joinery over 30 years ago was an article why dowel joints are doomed to fail.   The author, a well-known wood technologist  R. Bruce Hoadley, wrote  "If good dowel joints aren't the oldest joints ever made, loose ones must be."

While better than the stapled together stuff of today, a properly executed mortise and tenon, bridle, half lap, floating tenon, or even biscuits or pocket screws and glue will be stronger joints, long term.    And if you're gluing long-grain to long-grain you really don't need anything but glue and a well-prepared joint.

[sofadoc]

The deck in the picture looks to me like it may have zig-zag springs.

[whtwter]

Thank you for the input!
I am positive the one in the picture has zigzag springs. Is their any reason I should not design it with tied springs? They use the zigzag springs a lot at work and I am not a fan. They would be easier but I like the idea of hand tied. my current sofa is hand tied and it is just as comfortable as when it was new in the same time frame I have been though three with zigzag that ended up feeling like I was sitting in a bucket. I am sure the cushions were a factor as well but if I am building it I want to do the best I can.

As far as the joints I am with hammerhand on no dowels. I will be doing a combo of dovetails, mortise and tennon and lap joints with some blocking and pocket screws. That is what I use everyday and I am set up to do those quickly. I am glad that was pointed out.. I had been wondering why the focus on dowels when their are mechanically superior joints. I am guessing it is a production thing.

I will have to try driving a couple tacks into the maple and see how it works out...funny you mention that because the other wood I have a overload of is Hickory which I chose not to use for that very reason as well as weight.

I will post pics, It might be slow progress though we have been extremely busy at work! I received my veneer this morning, 5 flitches of Bolivian rosewood about 100 sq ft each  so I have plenty to choose from. Started taking pictures and laying out bookmatch possibilities for the back and sides in photoshop.

Cheers, Chris

[chrisberry12]

sounds like you got it down as far as the cabinet making. The springs need to be at least 8" depending on how they are installed. You want them to be taller then you think they need to be because when you tie them you compress them and that is why they are much better. you should look up some upholsterers in your area and go look at their stripped down furniture to get an idea and it never hurts to ask them for advice. As afar as the cushions, straight stitch and go slow. mark your corners and sew them up first, then centers and then the rest. You can contract that out to any upholsterer if you are not comfortable and they do take years to get them down good, just depends on you. try sewing one out of scrap fabric and don't be surprised if you have to rip it apart a few times. I still do and I have been doing this since 1982. Good Luck

[bobslost]

Maple is my choice for frames , over the years I have experimented with oak ,ash, and poplar.
But I won't be so quick to disregard dowels . There may be stronger joints, but double dowel and glue joints are the standard and I have never experienced any problems. We used to build a lot of custom furniture from sofas to beds.  Dowels are quick , easy and dependable.

[MinUph]

  Furniture joinery is a bit different than other building. As stated double doweled joint have been around forever and so has other types of joinery. Many are over kill / over work. Loose doweled joints are because they were never put together well in the first place. I've seen many pieces that have lasted over 100 years and the joints still solid as a rock. But you do what you feel.
 

[whtwter]

Good points, I may have to revisit doweling. If set up properly I can see it being much quicker. Right now I have 9 routers and various jigs preset to do specific joints so the overwork is to a minimum but the overkill is most likely justified. I am used to most of my joints being visible, the effort it takes to clean out the glue joint on a dowel joint compared to a dato or dovetail is worth the work in joinery! Much more squeeze out on a dowel joint. Nothing worse than a light stripe at the joint because the glue soaked in and didn't allow the finish to penetrate!

Thanks again for the input. Different set on rules from what I am used to but that is why I am asking questions!

Cheers

[SteveA]

I believe dowels are fine if done correctly.  It's been my experience that you see many dowel failures because manufacturers limit thorough gluing to avoid squeeze out around wood that will be stained and finished. 

SA

[mike802]

The best joint for most furniture frames is pegged mortise and tenon, at least where the four corners of a sofa or chair are concerned. Of course other joints are needed in different places, but dowels will eventually be held together by the webbing only, there is just to much end grain involved for a dowel joint to last.

My first choice for frame material is soft maple, plenty hard enough to hold staples and tacks, but soft enough to let them go when you need to pry them out.  One thing to keep in mind, needing a crane to lift you sofa is a sign of quality!

I agree that cushions can be challenging for a beginner, but you have to start somewhere.  I have a video series that explains some of the methods I use to reupholster an antique wing chair.  In the video I describe how to use horsehair and cotton. In my opinion, a sofa built with the quality frame you are considering, it would be a shame to stop short and use anything less.

Welcome to the forum!
http://youtu.be/OOM7FTJfeG8

[Darren Henry]

Welcome Chris.

with the cushions being a coil boxed in foam

Why that choice? I have seen so many of them fail that I would never use them.

[whtwter]

No progress on the sofa but I got the frame to a sling chair I have been wanting to build done. This should be a good project to try my hand at sewing...it is being done in a light tan duck canvas so if I make a mistake it wont be that costly! The guy who has been doing my upholstery has a Juki same as the one in my shop so he is going to show me how to run it tomorrow.

[whtwter]

Anyone else had a lot of problems with coil spring cushions? My decision to use them was that is what my sofa has and it is very comfortable and has lasted about 14 yrs so far.

[MinUph]

Spring filled cushions use to be made with a unit wrapped in layers of cotton. I would say the failures came about when foam started being used. A good spring cushion should last a lifetime and then some if done with cotton. But you would need to fill the cushion with a cvushion machine or suck it down first.