Red Surlast Turned to Pink

[jojo]

Did a cover using Sunbrella Surlast red, and it took only a few months for it to fade to pink. Is this normal for Surlast? The cover looks like it's 15 years old.

[Mike]

I used alot of surlast for a couple years  bt never red always navy or black.
Could be true. Try weather max 80 or less costly odesy3  simmolar materials bit maybe better butd id avoid red. Even sunblrella look faded dull after some time in florida.

I think surlast had a 5 year warrenty. Id bitch.

[MinUph]

Wonderful I just ordered red for my seat covers.

[bobbin]

I know reds and yellows are the toughest colors to dye, esp. when UV is factored into the equation.  I'd grumble, too!

[Mojo]

I just had a discussion about this topic with MiamiMike. He pretty much got me squared away on it and why it happened but I will let him address this topic himself rather trying to remember everything and repeat it and get something screwed up. :)

Chris

[Miami Mike]

Well not sure why it faded so fast? I would ask your sales rep.

Not sure why you used the Surlast was it for the $$$ or the high water repellency and Light weight.

I have a several fabrics that will work great in your area,

Top Notch 1S is a Polyester with a back coat and is 7.5 oz. Less breathable high water High tensile strength. $$
Top Gun 1S Is a coated Polyester on one side and is 9 oz. Less breathable very high water, high tensile strength. $$$
WeatherMax 80 is a woven fabric 8 oz breathable and high water. High tensile strength. $$$
Top Notch 9 woven fabric 9 oz breathable and high water. High tensile strength.$$$

These are what I would have offered you if you had called me but not knowing what you needed the fabric to do I listed all that I would recommend for a $$$ price point.

Now not all have a true red but the Max 80 and Top Notch 1S do. 

I would like to know why you choose the Surlast for this job. 

Mike

[MinUph]

Mike,
  I'm not the one that started this post but I am going to use Surlast for some seat trow covers. I chose it for its light weight and and thinness. I chose red because that's what my wife wanted. If it fades so be it they are only used when we are away from the boat. We will see.
  I did write your company about another pattern but the experience would be best in a pm.
  I'm glad you are here to offer your expertise. It is very helpful.

[jojo]

Mike,
It was chosen purely for the cost. Thanks for the heads up on alternatives. I'll check those out!

[gene]

OK. I will admit that there are times when I am not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Mojo said:

I just had a discussion about this topic with MiamiMike. He pretty much got me squared away on it and why it happened...

MiamiMike gave us a sales pitch on what he sells.

MiamiMike also said:

...but not knowing what you needed the fabric to do...

I would think that the first and foremost thing that jojo needed was for her red fabric to not fade to pink within a few months.  

Paul said, regarding MiamiMike:

I'm glad you are here to offer your expertise. It is very helpful.

Did MiamiMike tell us why the red Surlast faded to pink in just a few months, or did I miss it? Did MiamiMike tell us that his more expensive fabrics will NOT fade to pink within a few months?

Seriously. I'm open to being wrong here. I feel like I'm missing something (Which is not a too uncommon feeling for me.)

gene

[baileyuph]

No, MM did not answer the question, he admitted he didn't know.  He referred the real question and resolvement of the Surlast problem back to the sales representative.  Will that direction take Jojo's question to a technical understand?  Doubt it, but, since the material is under warranty, there is no where to run.

Mojo said he was squared away and understood the fade reason but would let MM explain.

If Mojo knows the answer for fade, well Mojo neither he nor Mike have shared.

Going forward, Jojo has no recourse but to exploit the cover material warranty for expense recovery.  She probably should take what she can get.  How far up can a buyer take something like this is a big and likely expensive question.

Unanswered is what was the cover exposed to during use?  Probably natural sun?

Sometimes, the shed tool has to be blunt Gene.  Wink.  

I have seen covers made out of burgundy color that fade and break down, but not in a few months.  Astrup - now bought out - used to sell a lighter weight boat cover material (noticeably in that family color) that would fade and deteriorate; but not to a "pink degree" within a year.  Can't remember the name of the product (currently not at business) but it is still available in multiple colors, an economy material that is used for smaller recreation and fishing vessels.  Material finish is more of a vinyl coating and fairly thin, like described above.  Over 40 now folks, I just remembered the product being referenced - Aqualon!!!  LOL.  I have used a bit of that and it met market requirements sometimes - at lower cost!  

Boat covers are like a lot of products, consumers look very hard at the price where quality should be factored in more.

Anyway, yes it would be at least interesting and possibly beneficial to know why the material turned pink in a few months (less than a year?) and another competing product that would at least hold up around five years, given normal exposure?

Perhaps, MM knows the answer but prefers the sales rep is the one a customer should hear it from?  

Doyle

Which?

[Mike]

I used a lot of surlast I wouldn't expect it to turn pink just like sunbrella ive never seen it fade to pink dull yes like a red t shirt after a 100 washes.  it must have been a bad roll for some reason surlast it very good just like weathermax 80 I used on a boat I sold last year though I didn't keep the boat long enough to have the test of time . I have outdura now on my fishing boat top and cover for a few years now and looks as geed as new 

[JuneC]

I've had good results from pursuing warranty claims with Glen Raven.  YMMV, Jojo, but it doesn't hurt to pursue it. Shortly after I started canvas work in the mid 2000's, I made a huge, complex cockpit cover in cadet grey.  In less than 9 months, it turned pea-soup green.  The customer complained and in turn, so did I.  Glen Raven covered not only the fabric but also the fabrication cost.  They had gotten a bad lot of fiber from Monsanto and I and my customer were victims.  They didn't refund the customer's costs in cash, but gave a factory credit for the full amount.  It was the "stand up" thing to do, IMHO. 

Check with your supplier for a warranty claim.  That should not have happened.  Ask for them to cover not only the material but also labor costs.  In the end, they will come out ahead if they cover it.   

June

[Mojo]

I think MiamiMike does not want to bash someones product. He did explain quite a bit to me about
fading, fabric coatings, weave etc. I am not sure I can technically explain it myself and really do not want to push Mike and get him in trouble for bashing a product. :)

But for whatever its worth, Red pigment is a very hard color to use on fabrics and can be prone to fading. Also the tighter the weave the fabric has the better the yarns will hold the die and resist fading. Some fabrics are much better then others at holding colors as the weave is much tighter. You also have the finish factor which contains the UV inhibitors and water repellent chemicals. In a nutshell, some companies are better at finishes then others and some have their own finish specifications ( chemical mixes ). In other words, some companies will mix according to their bottom dollar while others will mix for quality and performance.

Gene: I have worked with different fabric sales people over the years and Mike is probably one of the most professional. I do not think his post was to sell products but more so to help show alternatives to some products that we use. You have to remember that behind the scenes there is alot going on in the fabric world that we do not know about. If Mike tells me to use a different product other then what I am using, I do it. He is very connected to the fabric industry and knows whats going on behind the scenes. This includes changes fabric manufacturers have made to their formulas as well as the mergers and acquisitions that have taken place recently which can result in a better or worse product.

Mike has served on boards in the fabric industry and is a true professional in every sense of the word. His post was after my request that he shed some light on JoJo's question and he really couldn't answer the question without bashing a companies product. It is something he wont do and I respect him for that.

If anyone has any questions on fabrics or a job you have coming up where you need some expertise I encourage you to contact Mike. Not so much to order materials from him but to get an experts input.
I sometimes call him about something I am curious about that has nothing to do with materials that I need and he will spend a half hour educating me. He really enjoys helping all of us and he is the only one on this forum who has the fabric expertise and contacts inside this industry. I am grateful for his participation.

Chris