My introduction with a single question

[Alsworld]

Good Day Folks,
I want to introduce myself and maybe start with a simple question that your expertise can help drive what type of materials I use.  First off my name is Alan.  I retired from the US Navy in 2009 and came back home to Austin Texas.  I always knew I would start my own small business with industrial sewing machines but never what direction I would take.  I still work my normal 40+ hour a week job and will keep it as I slowly work into this.  It is my first business and I am intimidated by so many facets but the time is right to push through the fears and get busy being my own fulltime boss 'someday'.   After experimenting with so many projects I wanted to (or other people asked me to) make, for the initial launch I have settled into making custom and semi-custom rifle cases.  I am a one man show and it's a field that cost little in fabric/foam/liner but that I can do at home in my off time and hope business grows.  Also I am slow because I need to get better sewing and patterning to be honest.  I sewed allot with Consew 206's much of my early career but it's been awhile.  I am rusty.
Now I realize this is not upholstery, and I most certainly don't want to get into the gun/anti-gun debate, I just wish to manufacture American made textile products and it's a product line I can do fairly well (and will improve).  I hope there is no fallout from me not being in the upholstery business and told to leave here.  I have lurked for a long time as a guest and finally signed up.  We use such similar materials that I wanted to try here and hope that it's okay.  I currently have a Bernina 217N-08 and it works fine for what I do, but dream of a Juki 1541 down the line.  It will be the next sewing machine.
I use Cordura 1000D material for the outside, 69 nylon thread, ½" sew foam and for the inside I am using auto velour material.  My question relates to the auto velour.  I chose that material due to its strengths (easy to work with, the "rub value", looks fantastic, won't scratch the product it protects, easily cleaned,  etc.) but I would like your thoughts,.  What I have made so far came out real nice but I want something that has long term reliability. 
I would appreciate your opinion whether I am chasing the right material for the inside.
Alan

[MinUph]

Welcome aboard Alan,
  Interesting undertaking. I'd love to see some pictures of your work. I'm sure others here would also. As for your material of choice it sounds like a good choice. Quality automobile fabrics are very durable. And it sounds like the velore will be nice to the metal it touches. I would be concerned with any chemical reaction that might occur with the metals it touches. Not that I have any experience in this but it comes to mind.I would research the materials fiber content and see if there is any reactions to certain metals. I would also research some other case manufacturers to see what they use.
  Sounds like you on a good track. Keep it up and you will do well. I think the bernina is a great machine for this. You wouldn't want a heavy duty unless your going to get into heavy duty fabrics or leathers.

[Mojo]

Welcome. You will find some awesome people on this forum and many who are masters at their trade.

The Cordura is a wise choice but Paul brings up some good points on the velour. I would do some checking into this to make sure the velour will not promote rust. I cannot comment oin the 69 thread as I have never used it. Everything I have used is 90 and 138.

Best of luck with your new endeavor.

Chris

[Darren Henry]

welcome to the board Alan. I've done alot of these as well. My business started out as custom leather crafting and custom cases etc... (part time) I like your choice of materials. Number 69 nylon thread is the trade standard here in Canada, I've never had a problem with it in this application.

The velour works fine. The only thing I'd be concerned about is a leather / unlined case. That is where I have seen reactions.

If you'd like to talk patterns and techniques etc... Drop me aline and I'll post some pics etc...

[Alsworld]

Thank you everyone for your comments.  It does make me think and pursue further research so I really appreciate your inputs.  Paul, I will upload a few photos of some of what I have done.  There will be obvious mistakes you all will pick out but these were learning experiments as I tried different tactics.  I am pretty critical (of myself) what I did wrong and these are not "sellable" by my standards, but I have thick skin and don't mind constructive criticism.  I certainly have been making technique improvements and will continue.  Something interesting, the cheap cases that sell for $10-$40 have what I swear is cambric fabric as the liner!  I even bought some cambric for my very first experiment and it's the same.  Others I find use a flannel liner.  There is more of course.  I will not compete with junk, but wish to be unique.

Chris thanks for the good points.  Velour is new to me and I have found some issues but had not thought of these points.  Guess I was more concerned with open cell vs. closed cell foam but that is another point altogether. Fortunately I have worked with 69 thread quite a bit.  In the Navy we called it "E" thread.  It was our main stay thread for sewing/modifying/repairing survival equipment.  There we used bonded nylon which I have, but I also now have some polyester 69 thread for more UV resistance.  In my cases, nylon seems it would work fine but both are sized and sew the same.  It was recommended by my local machine repair guy that 69 is about the max size I can use with my Bernina.

Darren, I sure will.  PM work best?  I am soaking up all information I can.  I have not played with leather much mainly because my machine is just too light (non walking foot) so I am working with what I have.  But the current material match well.  I will take all the pointers you are willing to share.  Thank you!
Thanks everyone, the experience with all types of sewing on this board are incredible.

Alan

[Mojo]

Former Navy ??? Oh Boy. I have a sailor to harass. :)

I just spent several days with two of my buddies - former Naval aviators. They are the worst of the lot. One was an F-4 driver and the other an A-4 / P-3 jock. Both got on my butt and harassed me for several days. They love taking advantage of a lone Marine. :)

It has always been fun being a Marine, till your alone with jet jocks, bubbleheads or skimmers and your out numbered. :)

I am not familiar with the Bernina so if your machine guy says stick with 69 then you probably better.

Funny you mention sewing in the Navy. One of my buddies ( USMC ) is a stitcher these days and got his start doing seat covers for harrier jets while in the Corps. Your the only other former military vet I know of that started sewing in the service.

The only thing the USMC ever gave me to play with was an M-16, some grenades and a compass to find my way back to base with. :)

Chris

[Darren Henry]

Former Navy Huh? Oh Boy. I have a sailor to harass. Smiley

We call all twelve of ours "Boat people" LOL. We do have more pigeons and snake rapers to tease though.

The only thing the USMC ever gave me to play with was an M-16, some grenades and a compass to find my way back to base with.

"Liz" lent me a 105 mm for a few years. What was really cool was the shoot where I was at the sharp end with 18 - 155mm's and 6 or 8 105's to play with.We shortened a hill by 30 feet.

[Alsworld]

Chris, Semper Fi!  And feel free to harass me all you want  :).  And for my Bernina, it has a very narrow bobbin so 69 thread as the heaviest works best for it.  I'll try to upload a few photos of my learning curve to see how they come out.  The first was only my second case I made, did it over 1 1/2 years ago.  Mistakes are obvious and I have corrected my methods but here it is.



Lots of cons - I don't like the shape, it was too tall, too many wrinkles, bottom webbing was 1/2" off from end to end, etc.  I tried to run a marathon whereas I should have walked a 5K.  For larger picture I hope  http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/welcometoalsworld/Rifle%20Cases/010.jpg



An idea I haven't seen anywhere else, foamed magazine holders.  They were effective but each came out inconsistent of the others and were difficult to attach.  I can improve on this.  http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/welcometoalsworld/Rifle%20Cases/011.jpg



Not perfect (notice the sewing edges around the zipper) but the idea is one I work with.  There is no "inside" of the material visible.  I double over and foam lined this (1/4" sew foam) so only the outer smooth side is visible.  Better abrasion protection for whatever is placed inside and hopefully adds some "class".  It does use more material albeit not by much.  All pockets are done this way, no rough side of the material can be seen inside any of them.  http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/welcometoalsworld/Rifle%20Cases/015.jpg



Oh the horror of my mistake here.  Beautiful Envoke Velvet cloth from Miami Corp that I completely screwed up putting on.  It was my first try with adhesive and I did everything wrong.  Should have practiced first, got help, not rushed!  So, I tried sewing to keep it smoother (see the long lines sewn in) and it's functional, but not a good job.  I have learned and have pictures of another case where I fixed that.   http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/welcometoalsworld/Rifle%20Cases/018-1.jpg  

I make things differently now, but overall for only my second case it turned out fair.  Great lessons learned, but these photos might be better suited for the "How Not to do things" thread on this forum.  I will post some more of improvements on a different case.

Alan

[JuneC]

Nice looking work for just starting out!  Keep it up and refine as you go and they'll be flying off the shelf. 

I like the magazine clips, but if you sewed 3 pouches then appliqued them to the front of the case, I can see where they'd be a nightmare to attach.  I'd be tempted to make a large pouch (big enough for the 3 clips), dart the corners where necessary, then sew the large pouch to the face of the case.  After sewing the perimeter, run a stitch line through all layers between the clips, effectively making 3 out of the one.  You'll lose the curved styling, but for a lower-cost "production" model, it may work.  Actually, with practice, you could probably add the curve.  After the pouch is sewn on, add the 3 cover flaps with velcro or whatever fastener you're using. 

As for foam, if you anticipate these going hunting, I'd use closed cell simply because it's more impact resistant and doesn't absorb water.  One really kool idea might be a rain pouch that covers the whole enchilada.  My daughter has a very expensive camera bag that has a small, sewn-in pouch near the handle.  In foul weather, just open the pouch and pull out a super-thin waterproof cover (also attached to the bag).  The way it's sewn and attached makes it a 20 second to install cover that will never get lost. 

You might get lots of design ideas from etsy by looking at camera bags.  For instance, you might add a detachable shoulder strap so you can sling it on your back while hiking.   

June

Oh, and fabrics with a nap like velvet and velour are difficult to sew on ANY machine without having the fabric creep.

[Mike]

hi all look good to me also a lot of sewing there I had a requjest for 5 photographers light bags once a lot less work then yours  what is you hours per bag vs costs? 
I don't look at a lot of bags closely and was wondering about your xipper and if there shouldn't be more hidden , im just compairing to a cushion zipper that would have flaps covering it

[Alsworld]

Hi everyone.  An exciting day as it was my first to spray with Dap Weldwood Landau HHR adhesive working on my latest project.  Things turned out almost too good as it highlighted something I had not experienced before.  I use material backing whenever I sew Velcro on for longevity & strength, one of those unseen quality things I try to incorporate.  Usually it's not seen, but after spraying/pressing, it showed my crookedness of that backing material.  Funny, but it's the happiest mistake I have ever made seeing how well it showed with the HHR.  I will have to remake the piece but will learn from it for future endeavors..

June, I am going to try your ideas on the case I am making.  He wants them (magazine pockets) inside a zippered pouch like shown above so they will have no cover,  but I need to just make them straight and find out how they turn out.  I think it will work fine for this project, and will experiment in the future.  Concerning open cell vs. closed cell foam, yeah I debate that daily in my head.  I know you are 100% correct about moisture retention and what I currently use will soak it up.  I can get open cell locally, but finding closed cell is more difficult and quite a bit more expensive.  I do not have a definitive answer where I will go but still shopping for closed cell.  As soon as you said a cover the first thing that popped in my mind was Silnylon, silicone impregnated rip stop nylon.  I could easily make a small, lightweight waterproof cover and incorporate a pocket to retain it.  That may be my initial starting idea if I stay with open cell foam for now.  Still shopping for that option.  As for a strap, yes I have put shoulder straps on two of my cases (opposite side of the pockets) and will put one on the project currently in-work.  He specified how he wanted it so it will be a little different than previous ones, but not difficult.

Mike, yes yes yes I want a flap covering the zipper but I'll be honest, I just don't know how?  I want to warranty the zipper for a long time (it's the last thing I install, I can easily repair/replace if needed and the only real failure spot I can foresee unless I make a mistake).  But it is too exposed and welcomes me to do rework if I don't incorporate something to protect it like a flap.  Rework only cost me time and money (not to mention customer dissatisfaction) so it's something I must learn and incorporate.  A metal zipper may be able to withstand more abuse, but if I leave it out there exposed to get abuse then I have made a quality product with a flaw.  A very valid point that I need to find an answer to.    Concerning hours per bag vs. cost, right now I am tremendously slow and inefficient.  I do know how to improve both but have moved slowly as I pattern and re-teach myself the basics.  My business is not up and running yet (launching in June) so I have a ways to go.  Just these past two weeks I was able to get all my business requirements done (11 digit tax and sales use number, EIN number, Doing Business As) received but I must get better and get my system down.  What I am showing has all been for practice, friends and family.  Honestly I am real ignorant concerning how to pay myself so I know I have tons to learn.  But I have to start somewhere and so far it's a very exciting time, and a long time coming.  I have a ways to go for sure.

Thank you all for your inputs, I certainly appreciate them!

Alan

[Alsworld]

Tomorrow evening after my normal job I will post some photos of a more recent case.  There were process improvements and the inside came out really nice.  Errors of course but much less and better consistency.  I think you will see an improvement.  Getting there slowly but on the way...

Alan

[Mojo]

Alan:

I have to agree with June. When I make my ladder buddies ( textilene bags that strap onto ladders ) I make the pouches oversized. I stitch one side and then stitch across the bottom after sewing darts into the corners. Once it is sewed around its perimeter I then separate the puche into smaller pouches by sewing a double stitch line up and down. Saves a bunch of time in cutting and stitching.

I think your cases look great. Heck I would buy one if I needed one. I think your on top of your game and will have them perfected in a short time.

In regards to your mag pockets, take some scrap material and try doing what June and I suggested. You will get the hang of it in no time and find out how easy it is to do.

Great job.....especially for a skimmer. :) Best of luck with your projects.

Chris

[Mike]

what are you using for a zipper id use a #10 coil with metal slider. with zislon zippers I have had to get some with the plastic slide I hate them . metal slides only for me .
reciently I made this cover for the control on a trolling motor . I made a flap to cover it with Velcro to hold it down in the wind ect .

[Alsworld]

Good evening all.  I wish to say I tremendously appreciate the support and assistance you all are providing me with.  I was hoping to be accepted on this board (not being in the upholstery business) because after reading this forum for a long time before signing up, the wealth of knowledge from those who run their own business or work in smaller businesses know what works and what does not.  I really value what you say as you are the professionals that I hope to someday join your ranks.

On with the update.  Yes I will follow what June and Mike said on the pockets.  Wonderful ideas.  I am slow to fabricate in the evenings after my normal job but am working on a case now.  Once finished I will post photos, maybe in the correct section ha ha.

Mike, currently I have been using #8 coil zippers, but also have some #9 and #10 coil zipper length.  The #9 is only in black but I can get unlimited yardage (now wholesale yay!) from my local upholstery supply store.  They call it Jeep zippers.  I assume it's used for Jeep tops?  I only use metal sliders so I am onboard with you, no plastic sliders.  I think you have settled another debate in my mind, #8 or #10 coil?  From now on I will only order #10 coil.  I have seen #10 as a selling point for others making the same products and why not, tougher with minimal cost difference.  Internal debate settled although I might use up some of what I still have.  And yeah I'm gonna teach myself to make the flap to protect it.  I know it's not hard, just got to work on it.

Okay, going to try and upload some photos as promised.  Maybe the thumbnails will work today for me.

Alan