Anybody know anything about Singer 3771 D43 walking needle machine?

[AvaBird]

Hi all-

I'm hunting for my first industrial machine for my fledgling upholstery business. I've been plugging along with my Bernina home machine for 2 years and saw this Singer on Craigslist.  It's being sold by an upholsterer who has 7 other machines with walking feet so I'm a bit dubious about him selling the walking needle one. It has a table and new motor and supposedly works like a charm.

Would anyone be kind enough to give me their opinion?

Thanks,

Teresa

[sofadoc]

I've never really heard the term "walking needle" before. I assume they're talking about a compound feed walking foot machine (the needle walks with the foot). Some walking foot machines just have a stationary needle. I don't know anything about that particular Singer model.
But a compound feed walking foot machine is definately what you want.

Is this the ad?
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/for/3106071458.html

I notice that he didn't list an asking price. I don't think that I would "break the bank" for that one.  But for the right price, it might be a great starter machine for you.

[AvaBird]

Thanks Sofadoc-

Yes, that's the machine:)

I did a google search for walking needle vs.walking foot and found the compound feed machine. I called the seller back and asked if I'd be able to use the machine with a welting foot and he said that's what he was using it for in the past.

He recently had it completely serviced and, as I wrote, it has a new motor. The table has been cut down to fit his space (not a good thing) but I can probably get it for $500.

You think it's worth the price? Sight unseen, of course :)

Teresa

[sofadoc]

$500 is on the high end of what I would pay. But it really depends on your budget, and level of committment.  If you are diving head first in to the deep end of upholstery, I'd say spend a little over a grand on a new walking foot machine. Chandler and Consew have some nice models in the $1000-$1200 range.
But if upholstery isn't your "day job", and you just want to upgrade without investing a lot of money, then that machine might be just what you're looking for. But I would certainly test drive it first.
In the Craigslist picture, that machine certainly looks like a decent older model. But in all the discussions on this board about older model walking foot machines, I've never heard that model # come up. Most discussions about Singers involve the 111W, or 211W models.
You might ask him if 111W series parts (such as welt feet) will fit on it. If not, parts might be pricey and a little hard to find.
It always bugs me that they never show the needle bar/welt foot area in those Craigslist pics. But they ALWAYS show a separate pic of the motor. They act as if the motor is more important than the head.

[kodydog]

Its hard to tell how powerful it is from the pictures but my guess is it will be a step up from your current machine. I notice it has no bobbin winder. Not a big deal one can be added but it would be a nice bonus. If it sews good I might offer $100 less and be happy.

When you take it for a test drive bring some thick tapestry and with permission, sew six layers. Check the stitch and pay attention how the machine and motor act while sewing.

There are some experts on here that pop in from time to time. They may know more about that model #.

[sofadoc]

It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like it may have a built-in bobbin winder on the upper right side of the head. Similar to one that you would see on a domestic machine.
It doesn't appear that the belt is exposed above the table top.
If it doesn't have 2 separate bars for a 2 piece welt foot set, I'd pass it up.

[AvaBird]

All very good advice Sofadoc and Kodydog :)

I did some more checking and found that this seller posted this machine back in March but it didn't sell.

Of course, I'm on a budget and need a new compressor as well; that's why I'm looking for a new machine. But I don't want just a step up from my Bernina. In my previous life, I ran a dressmaking business and had great luck with my Consews (I purchased them new). This time, however, I need the speed and smoothness of a walking foot. I've been doing upholstery full-time (when I can get the work) for 2 years now and there's nothing worse than having to pull welted cushion covers through a slow machine sitting atop a table.

I'll probably pass on this Singer but do you really think they are making sewing machines to last more than a few years? I always think "older" means "bult better ;)

Anyway, I can't tell you how much your advice has helped me in the past. I love this forum!

Teresa

[kodydog]

AvaBird from what I'm reading you can easily get by a few years with a $160 compressor. Check this out,

http://get-up-and-go.com/upholstery-forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=70g33un2itrope09aa478fvjh4&topic=11009.0

I would invest more money on the sewing machine. You should be able to pick up a good used one for under $900. 

[sofadoc]

but do you really think they are making sewing machines to last more than a few years? I always think "older" means "bult better

The general consensus is that the new Chinese built machines aren't as good as the older models that were made in Japan and the USA. But they are still built to last a lot longer than a few years.
While older models may have been built better, the problem is you don't really know if they've been abused or not.

[Mojo]

Theresa:

You just said the magic word............it didn't sell in March. Now I am all giddy. :)

Offer him $ 300 and tell him you have a line on a Consew 206 for $ 450 but will consider his at
$ 300. See if he budges. I would shoot for $ 350 myself.

As a comparison, Kodydog and I just bought Juki LN 563's which are straight up hard working compound feed machines. They are workhorses. We both paid $ 400 each. I would hammer him on price.

Also before you buy call Bob Kovar and get his advice. Bob is one of our resident machine experts and is a machine dealer. He is an old fart and been around machines for a hundred years or more and can give you a much better idea on this machine, its uses and maybe problems the model has had in the past. His Number is 419-380-8540. Tell him I said he better help you or I am taking him off my Christmas card list. :)

All kidding aside Bob is an awesome guy and has been a huge help to many of us on here.

Chris

[Toledo Mach. Sales]

Don't buy it.It's not for upholstery & I doubt if you can get all the parts for it anymore.It's not a walking foot!!
You might find more info on this machine if you search for Singer 660
HTH
Bob

[bobbin]

I just read this thread and as soon as I saw "walking needle" the first thing I thought was that's probably simply a needle feed machine.  A needle feed machine is a step up from the standard "drop feed" because the needle bar moves forward with each stitch and works in conjunction with the feed dog.  A "drop feed" needle bar simply goes up and down, it doesn't move forward to assist in feeding the goods.  Most "home" machines are drop feeds.  I have a needle feed Juki (9010) and I love it.  It's great for lighter weight fabrics and when joining long runs the tendancy for the top layer to creep forward on the lower one is virtually nil. 

But a straight needle feed machine is not the same animal as a "walking foot" machine!  There is no split on the presser foot (presser feet on walking foot machines are are 2 pc. deals, there is an inside and an outside foot for every set up) and so the really smooth even feed required for multiple layers of fabric and really thick fabrics simply isn't there!  A straight needle feed machine has one presser foot, the only diffference between a drop feed foot and a needle feed foot is that there is a slot (instead of a hole) to accomodate the forward motion of the needle bar with every stitch.  Also, the feet are notched further back to accomodate the same needlebar motion lwhen reverse is activated.  Rarely can you interchange presser feet betwen drop feed and needle feed machines; you usually have to have them milled out for a needle feed set up. 

[bobbin]

Too busy "editing" to remember to add this (duh):  I would be hard pressed to pay more than $500 for a used walking foot machine with a clutch motor.  If the machine was "cherry" and there was a nice assortment of attachments/presser feet/needles... maybe.  Remember that cash talks!

Two years ago I sold a Juki 562 for a whopping $600, but it had extra bobbins, needles, presser feet and a brand new clutch motor (w/receipt).  It was a nice machine and I'd had it for several years and took good care of it.  I was shocked that the price was not questioned, frankly.  I took the money and ran... and put it right into the Juki 1541N7 I now own. 

I've worked in the needle trades for a lot of years now.  I've seen and operated a lot of different machinery over the years so I tend to come at questions like this with a lot of "inside" knowledge.  I have made the move to servo motors in my own shop.  They're smooth, quiet, energy efficient and the way of the future, IMO.  At present, I'm working on converting two of my older "workhorses" to servo motors.  There are many fine older machines available on the market, but many of them are offered by sellers who "run the flag up the pole to see who salutes".  Not every seller lucks out the way I did!

[Mojo]

Don't buy it.It's not for upholstery & I doubt if you can get all the parts for it anymore.It's not a walking foot!!
You might find more info on this machine if you search for Singer 660
HTH
Bob

And there you have it. It is great we have experts like Bob around to help us. That probably should also be a prerequisite whenever considering buying a used machine - parts availablity and parts cost.

Thanks Bob,

Chris

[AvaBird]

Wow. As I said before...I LOVE this forum. Thank you all for the informative posts. I took a few days off the forum (Mom's in town:) and was amazed to find new posts.
I didn't buy that Singer, Bob, I wish I lived within driving distance to you.
I called an upholsterer who I interned with a while back and he said I was the third person that day to ask about a walking foot machine. I live in RI where the opportunities are few... (but I won't go there right now;) and I've been looking for a used machine for 6 months to no avail. I just finished up another project where I had to sew miles of dbl. welting on my Bernina. I cussed the whole time. :-\ Never again.

So, I'm gonna take all your advice and start looking again this weekend. Bob...you may be hearing from me. Do you ship???

Teresa